Skating and coaching costs across the globe
- Thread starter Rashela
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Nobody knows for sure, most of it comes from interviews from here and there. I think it's standard practice that coaches/choreographers get a percentage of competition winnings. As far as shows, I think Orser in an interview when Med came to him was surprised that Eteri and staff got a percentage of the show money. He said he doesn't receive any of Yuzuru or Javier's show earnings.
On the other hand he collects 100+ bucks per hour.
While true the government doesn’t pay him anything and a salary of $208000 before taxes, likely closer to $150000 after taxes is not huge for a Canadian salary.
I'm talking about skater-coach finantial relations, what is the politics of canadian government in sport is not my concern.
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- Sep 21, 2018
Brian charges per hour and does not take a cut from Zhenya's income. Zhenya's former coaches were paid by the RusFed (same as everyone in Russia) and then takes a cut (I may be wrong, but was it around 30%? There was an Averbukh interview earlier this year, I think, where that was mentioned.). I do not see anything controversial about stating those things as they are.
In general terms, $100 per hour is not really a lot for lessons. Maybe there's someone here who takes lessons in Canada or in the U.S., who can shed light on the going rate. I pay for lessons (not figure skating) per hour, and its even more than that (the teacher (in his field) is not even of Brian Orser's caliber). Maybe in Europe, where you are in particular, $100 is exorbitant. In North America, at least where I am, that's not unconscionable.
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Can I get a proof link to that?
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- Jul 3, 2018
The interview thedude probably ment was this article written by Hersh: http://www.globetrottingbyphilipher...kating-olympics-russia-canada-orser-medvedeva
However, in the interview Orser never talked about Russian coaches e.g. Tutberdize receiving a part of skater's price money, it was the interviewer's own personal comment in the article, which talked about this topic. Orser only said this about training costs in the interview:
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- Jan 18, 2017
Europe is not one country. How many hours per week do you have, if I may ask?
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- Sep 21, 2018
Neither is North America. Where did I say Europe is a country?
Very roughly, average income per year is 51 000 in Canada and somewhere around 60 000 in USA (but there is wide range below and up, esp. in USA). Hypothetically, if you are a Canadian, you can buy 510 training hours of training per year (about 1.5 hour a day) in Canada and 600 hours per year (little below 2 hours a day) in USA if you spent all the money for the training. Of course I'm neglecting weekends etc. (and also the prices can be higher due to inflation), but that's only for basic orientation. That doesn't look like much of a bussiness, when you consider that you have to spend something on yourself, family etc. In complete family, at least one full income must be probably spent for full training and yet it still won't be that much hours, and I'm not talking about incomplete families, families with lower income etc., when you want to hire top coach like that.
But again I'm speaking about this. You pay this money like this 100+ bucks per hour without even reaching some level of success (and income), that's what you have to invest whatever skater you are. While, in the other model, you pay significantly less per hour, but when you are invited to an ice show, it means you are somehow succesful, you've reached some level of abilities, won something or so. And you've reached it with your coach, who does not charge high for an hour like in the previous model. In this model if you do not reach some high level, you are probably not invited to a show and therefore you have no income from which you would pay some share to a coach. Only those who are succesful do that. This is of course understandable, because with the charga like in the previous model very small number of parents could afford a coach whose hour charge is 100 $. And, let's not deny it, this model is the one that is succesful now
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- Jan 18, 2017
Neither I said you said it. I made a statement.
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- Sep 21, 2018
Needlessly, because it is irrelevant.
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What is irrelevant? 100 $ in Switzerland maybe not enough for a regular steak and 100 $ in some other country in Europe might be a week salary.
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- Sep 21, 2018
Very roughly, average income per year is 51 000 in Canada and somewhere around 60 000 in USA (but there is wide range below and up, esp. in USA). Hypothetically, if you are a Canadian, you can buy 510 training hours of training per year (about 1.5 hour a day) in Canada and 600 hours per year (little below 2 hours a day) in USA if you spent all the money for the training. Of course I'm neglecting weekends etc. (and also the prices can be higher due to inflation), but that's only for basic orientation. That doesn't look like much of a bussiness, when you consider that you have to spend something on yourself, family etc. In complete family, at least one full income must be probably spent for full training and yet it still won't be that much hours, and I'm not talking about incomplete families, families with lower income etc., when you want to hire top coach like that.
But again I'm speaking about this. You pay this money like this 100+ bucks per hour without even reaching some levelof success, that's what you have to invest on whatever skater you are. While, in the other model, you pay significantly less per hour, but when you are invited to an ice show, it means you are somehow succesful, you've reached some level of abilities, won something or so. And you've reached it with your coach, who does not charge high for an hour like in the previous model. In this model if you do not reach some high level, you are probably not invited to a show and therefore you have no income from which you would pay some share to a coach. Only those who are succesful do that. This is of course understandable, because with the charga like in the previous model very small number of parents could afford a coach whose hour charge is 100 $. And, let's not deny it, this model is the one that is succesful now
I don't know what you are fighting for. I did say there is nothing controversial about it. Brian should be able to command an arrangement he finds fair. So should Eteri. Whether skaters agree it to it is their business.
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- Sep 21, 2018
Relevant to what your point is, which you did not assert until now. If you read my post, I said CLEARLY "Maybe in Europe, where you are in particular, $100 is exorbitant. In North America, at least where I am, that's not unconscionable." If that did not imply to you that I am not generalizing the norms in an entire continent, then we cannot understand each other, unfortunately.
I'm not fighting against anything and for anything, just presenting facts, that for a country like Russia the system I've described is logical (and has undeniable results) and there is nothing to wonder about. Also, I'm not an American and never been there, so maybe my view is not correct, but from the general info about family and personal incomes (and maybe it is different particularly "where you are" from the rest) I would be very hesitant to say that charge 100 $ per hour for a kid is something that "in general terms, is not really a lot for lessons", at least when it comes to an "average family".
I live in the US, and can say that $100 is not a lot for lessons, kind of. I skate at a decent club and am a decent skater and my coaches charge about $60 an hour. I think this is typical for the average skater... by average I mean regional level, can do doubles/triples. Where I live, once a skater starts to get their doubles, they usually move to the top club to try to become an above average skater. This doesn't work out for 95% of these skaters, they always think they're better than they are and that with these top coaches and training facilities that they will become better overnight. Personally, I would've loved to have the opportunity to skate there, but my family couldn't afford it, in both the time and money sense. The coaches at these rinks are much more experienced and charge more because of it, as they should. I can't speak to exactly what they charge per hour, but I would put it between $60-$100 depending on the coach. When you look at it this way, if these pretty good coaches charge close to Orser and only teach average skaters, then it probably seems like what he is charging is cheap. But on the other hand, how much can he really charge and still have skaters at the end of the day. I know some discussion took place about skater's income, but long story short, these are middle class families who would not be able to afford him if he had a higher rate. He probably knows that. I think he probably enjoys his job and wants to continue to coach top level skaters, and I'm also sure that he make plenty of money. Think about how many hours he is coaching and do the math, $100 an hour is not unconscionable, it adds up to more than you think, especially when there's a lot more expenses invloved in skating then just lessons.
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- Jan 11, 2014
Maybe we need a thread on the economics of skating around the world? It could actually be an interesting topic. How much does it cost to skate in Australia vs Canada say.
However this is a thread on the 2019-20 Russian Ladies Season so could we please bring it back on topic. Thank you.
However this is a thread on the 2019-20 Russian Ladies Season so could we please bring it back on topic. Thank you.
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:agree:
Jumping off from your post, who knows what Brian charges? who knows how Eteri is paid? Who cares?
I will say, anyone who thinks (and I don't know if anyone thinks that, just throwing out a thought in general ) that $110 or $130 or whatever an hour is living high on the hog in North America does not have a good understanding of North American economics or coaching prices. Like overhead, for one
Just as an example for comparison of a coach as successful as Brian and Eteri, Frank Carroll charged $180 an hour ($60 for twenty minutes) http://deserticecastle.com/coaches/ ) It's simply the going rate
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