Is the interaction between competitive skating and show skating still mutually beneficial?

[TallyT]

Yuzu’s the last skater who can do this traditional chain, but he has enough support and connection to create his own professional show opportunities.

To be fair, Yuzuru - and Daisike Takakhashi with what I have read about Kassouya, and now maybe Shoma depending on what he is planning - are moving the Japanese ice show into artistic and theatrical areas that the traditional 'get a bunch of big names and let them do their party tricks' ones can't really follow (and nor can Disney on Ice etc because these guys can combine theatrical magic with star names and stellar, competition-level skating). This model does make it harder for skaters currently competing at a high level to allocate the time, rehearsals and resources, or foreign skaters, active or retired, who are the mainstay of SOI etc to be a part of them.

 

[TallyT]

However, let's remember that the party tricks model isn't dead yet, at least not in Russia and Japan (and Europe?) and for those who are interested (as many of the current or previous star names seem to be so I am not sure why the last few pages have devolved into a discussion of Chen's life choices), want the money and/or performance experience it brings... it's probably still good. Do any of them want to be Yuzuru, Dai or Shoma - or for that matter Plushenko or the star producers in Russia - after all?

(Ummm, let's not ask them that...)

 

[Wynter]

To be fair, Yuzuru - and Daisike Takakhashi with what I have read about Kassouya, and now maybe Shoma depending on what he is planning - are moving the Japanese ice show into artistic and theatrical areas that the traditional 'get a bunch of big names and let them do their party tricks' ones can't really follow

The production and commercial scale between Dai and Shoma’s show are way too different than Yuzu’s I don’t put those shows in the same category.

Dai’s Hyoen is a bigger budget production but Kassouya and Ice Brave are small shows with around 1,000 capacity per show. Meanwhile, Yuzu’s shows in Japan uses large venues usually reserved for Worlds.

 

[TallyT]

The production and commercial scale between Dai and Shoma’s show are way too different than Yuzu’s I don’t put those shows in the same category.

Dai’s Hyoen is a bigger budget production but Kassouya and Ice Brave are small shows with around 1,000 capacity per show. Meanwhile, Yuzu’s shows in Japan uses large venues usually reserved for Worlds.

Oh I know that , hell, nothing in the skating world, competitive or show, compares size-wise except as you say Worlds (sometimes) but I meant on an imaginative and theatrical basis. They seem (as said, can't speak for Shoma yet but I've seen some of his comments which look promising) to be all looking at how to expand the possibilities of show skating into something that enhances the visual and artistic brilliance that is being downgraded elsewhere.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

However, let's remember that the party tricks model isn't dead yet, at least not in Russia and Japan (and Europe?) and for those who are interested (as many of the current or previous star names seem to be so I am not sure why the last few pages have devolved into a discussion of Chen's life choices), want the money and/or performance experience it brings... it's probably still good. Do any of them want to be Yuzuru, Dai or Shoma - or for that matter Plushenko or the star producers in Russia - after all?

(Ummm, let's not ask them that...)

I agree that it would be more relevant to focus the thread discussion on whether the professional skating scene has enough opportunities for those who are interested in them, rather than on who is interested. I know enough competitive and pro skaters to say that personality is the main factor in determining if they want to go pro.

Re your main point, yes I'm sure the 'party tricks' model suits some skaters better, just as the theatrical/artsy model suits others. Like any profession you try to find a job that matches your skillset and interests. Currently competing/recently retired skaters might find 'trick' shows a little easier to adapt to.

 

[Anna K.]

I deleted the post which derailed the topic and posted the correct version below just to bring it to the order.

Talking about which, I suggest to add to the Golden Skate guidelines that, in cases when forum users want to use an example to discuss what they see as a wider problem, the form “Skater X” is used instead of a name and surname!

I have seen my share of crazy people so I don’t take it close to my heart. But I have seen this happening to other users OPs, too. Receiving a flack from those who feel that their idol is offended by being used as example and from those who feel that their idol is offended because an unworthy skater has been used as an example instead – it can easily discourage from thread starting if you are a normal human person with no grade in psychology. I may be wrong thinking that some users of this forum have already been discouraged from further thread starting this way but just in case: Please, @GS Forum Staff tell every thread starter that dealing with people who get triggered by a popular skater’s name and instantly have their says about whatever topic-unrelated comes to their mind is just not worth the sweat! It’s much easier to change the OP to a neutral form, i.e. “Skater X”.

 

[Anna K.]

And now, the correct version of the example:

There is what I see as changes in the upbringing of young skaters that directly impacts the interaction between competitive skating and show skating:

When an aspiring skater X jumping triples at the age of 10 and also shows a talent of an entertainer, in the past the coaches of X would say: “You already have jumps. Let’s work on presentation! It will bring you success in future.” Today, the coaches would say: “Forget about presentation! You don’t need it at this stage of your development. Let’s work on triple axel and quads that will bring you success in the future!”

To win a major medal today, 4 to 6 quads are mandatory for a male skater; 3+3 combo is a must and 3A and/or a quad is welcome for a female skater. With a jump-loaded package, no artistry is mandatory; which means that there is a serious reason to channel talented young skaters away from show skating since the very start.

Given that and the toll that overloaded jumping package has on physical health, we see forming a situation when skater X wins all major medals but has neither the show skating reputation & show business ties nor physical health to continue with show skating after winning the said medals. Which means that stepping away from skating becomes a reasonable if not inevitable outcome after a comparatively short though successful competitive career.

As a result, we have formerly prestigious medals and reigning champions that can’t be showcased in the routine way. Does it mean that the mutually beneficial relation between show skating and competitive skating has already fallen apart and the gap will only grow wider in future?

 

[Mathman]

I think that the piece of the bridge that has fallen away is pro competitions, The old World Pro (Landover) events had a delightful blend of fun and serious competition. Most of the time there were two segments, the technical program which was taken very seriously by the competitors and featured substantial content, and the "artistic" program" in which the skaters invested equally in choreography and presentation.

There were also continuing rivalries such as Kurt Browning vs, Brian Boitano and Kristi Yamaguchi against Midori Ito and later Yuka Sato.

Just check out the entries and winners over the years! (scroll down)

World Professional Figure Skating Championships - Landover, MD

This competition was initiated by Dick Button in 1973 and is commonly known as "Landover" as a result of the Maryland city the competition was formerly

www.goldenskate.com