Lovers of Ballet: Happy or unhappy when ballet music is used in figure skating?

[gkelly]

I've seen Movietone film of David Jenkins doing a triple Axel - really - in 1957 for the cameras! Not in competition though, but you wonder why he didn't as it looked magnificent!

Cool. I know he did it at the 1960 Olympics exhibition, but I haven't seen that.

I have seen clips of his triple sal and triple loop -- Jenkins's technique was much more like what we're used to seeing today than Button's.

 

[passion]

I have really, really enjoyed this thread.

I am a huge fan of the influence of ballet on figure skating...I think it's all for the good. I think beautiful posture and line comes from ballet and without ballet, we would see more figure skaters out there with ugly posture and no line. Simply...ballet makes figure skaters look more majestic, more impressive and more beautiful on the ice. I can think of so many examples....

The beautiful posture through the back and head (the core of the body) that we see from Mai Asada, Mao Asada, Sasha Cohen, Naomi Nari Nam, Angela Nikodinov, Fumie Suguri, Caroline Zhang, Mirai Nagasu, Anna Rechnio, Surya Bonaly, Oksana Baiul, Shue Shen, Hongo Zhao, Anton Sikarulidze, Elene Berezhnaya, Yuka Kawaguchi, Alexander Smirnov, Ekaterina Gordieeva, Sergei Grinkov, Jamie Salle, David Pelletier, Nicole Bobek, Johnny Weir, Emanuel Sandhu, Ilya Klimkin, Klimova & Ponamarenko, Lang & Tchernyshev, and countless others...that came from years and years of ballet training.

Futhermore, the beautiful stretch lines that we see from skaters who have really perfected them like Johnny Weir, Sasha Cohen and Mirai Nagasu, that also comes from ballet...it makes the skater look far, far more impressive on the ice than they would without ballet...it creates beautiful pictures on the ice.

Myriad images come into my mind, the beautiful arch and attitude that we always see in Naomi Lang's back, the powerful, magnificent lines that we see from Anton Sikarulidze and Emanuel Sandhu, the beautiful turned out and pointed feet of Sasha Cohen, Oksana Baiul, and Mirai Nagasu, the beautiful arms and attitude position and the gorgeous free-leg position and turned out free-foot in the layback spins of Angela Nikodinov and Sarah Hughes...and then there is Johnny Weir, just everything about his skating comes from ballet, the perfect posture through the core of the body, the magnificent stetch lines, the control, the jumps that look like beautiful works of art...this all comes from the ballet stage.

Ballet has elevated figure skating from a sport to an art form.

Furthermore, when I think of some of the greatest performances and some skater's signature pieces, ballet music has been the soundtrack...Angela Nikodinov's Giselle and Afternoon of a Faun, Janet Lynn's Afternoon of a Faun, Annisina & Pierzerat's Romeo et Juliette, Johnny Weir and Oksana Baiul's "the Swan," Tiffany & Johnny Stiegler to Giselle, Zhen & Zhao to "Pas de Deux," Rudy Galindo's Swan Lake, Oksana Baiul's "Black Swan" from Swan Lake, Nicole Bobek's "Invitation to Dance," Sarah Hughes "Daphnie et Chloe," ...I could go on and on. Ballet music seems to really inspire the skating.

You have inspired me. Thank you.

 

[passion]

I don't think it's the forums that demand triple Axels and quads, it's the judging system. These kids are trying to win competitions. The way to win is to score lots of points. The way to score lots of points is to do the big jumps. Skating like a ballerina, not so much.

If you look at the all-time greats in terms of success in the sport, Sonia Henie, Katarina Witt, Carol Heiss, Irina Rodnina, Ulrich Salchow, Dick Button, Scott Hamilton -- all belong to the anti-ballerina school of skating. (Not saying this is a good thing, just making an observation.)

I agree. You can be the most ballerina-ish skater out there. You can be so enormously talented artistically, but if you can't get all your doubles let alone triples, you ain't gonna move up or pass the competitive test to even be in the competition. A sad fact, but true. In the end, balance is key.

Dick Button is anti-ballerina?!!! But he loves commenting on beautiful positions, extensions, and the turned out free leg of a layback spin.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Dick Button is anti-ballerina?!!! But he loves commenting on beautiful positions, extensions, and the turned out free leg of a layback spin.

Have you ever looked at a Fielder jump for a ball soaring over his head? Beautiful position. Have you ever looked at an Actress move her body while crossing the stage or screen? Have you ever watched a Modern Dance program?

All this came from the Italians. They were the first to turn out their knees and point their toes - all men!

Why are fans so obsessed with figure skating to mimic ballet? I think figure skating can stand on its own blades and mimic other forms in life. Sad but true, figure skating can never be an original style of its own.

Joe

 

[Bridget]

La Rhumba:

Thanks so much for that beautiful review of Swan Lake! True classics never "go out of style" and while that ballet can be terribly interpreted and poorly imagined, you got lucky! Congratulations on having such a lovely experience. I agree that the ending is problematical-I've seen SL live 5-6 times in my life by a variety of companies, and it seems it was different every time. My first experience was when I was a teen, and the local impresario brought in David Blair from the Royal Ballet and Lupe Serano (I think she was with ABT at the time but I'm not sure) and in the end everybody died! That was my first experience with it. My daughter was also corp de ballet in a very lovely professional production, and she had a Romanian ballet mistress drill the corp daily for months....an experience that can only be described as...well...I don't think there are words! You really hit the nail on the head with your comments on how important the corp is. I think it is the "soul" of that ballet.

Thank you for sharing!

 

[La Piquik]

Hum.. interesting reviw.. congrats

 

[La Rhumba]

It's a pleasure Bridget, I'm so glad you enjoyed it. Thank you for your kind comments.

 

[all that]

I don't mind at all, but as other have said, it depends on what the skater/choreographer does with it. Also, some ballet scores are better suited for skating than other (I went to a performance of Giselle last Saturday, and I can't imagine that score working at all for a skater.)

Have you ever seen Katia Gordeeva's Giselle program? I was just wondering what you thought of it, if you have seen it. I don't have youtube access right now to post a link, but I'm sure a copy of the performance is there.

 

[Mathman]

Welcome to the forum, All That. Thanks for joining us.

 

[all that]

Welcome to the forum, All That. Thanks for joining us.

Thank you for your welcome, Mathman! You are very kind.

 

[morninglight]

Also, Mao's nutcraker, while playing up her cuteness and innocene did not really look like a ballet.

That performance reminded me of a toy box She herself looked an adorable, happy little kid both on- and off-ice (indeed she is very popular among kids!), I think it was a nice choice of music that underscored her own natural charm. Perhaps the Chopin piece this season might have more elegant, balletic moves and lines. She said in one of her talk shows that she likes music that has stories. It would be nice if she uses ballet music this season

 

[morninglight]

Thanks for posting Yukina's video

You are very welcome.

IMO she's the ONLY female singles skater since Baiul that has done ballet justice. It's really more than just flexibility and stretch.

I agree. She pays great attention to each position and connection with the music. She also seems to enjoy arts in general. She plays the piano and also seems to be good at painting. I suppose that her artistry would be coming from such disposition.

BTW, I found something really interesting. Her 'Madame Butterfly' in what might be called 'ice theatre.' I don't know when it's performed. What's interesting is that the rink looks really small (almost makes me feel scared just to think of skating in the rink of that size). So she can't get around too much. Although I personally do not enjoy themes like 'Madame Butterfly,' her performance itself is very expressive and mature.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUX7GwEJ14U

I hope she keeps on competing next season!

I hope so, too. It is reported that the kind of injury she has had is difficult to completely cure. But I hope that it heals. I think that she is one of the most remembered skaters among the Japanese ladies despite her long absence.

-------
P.S.

This was very beautiful, too, although it shows only the highlights. I think she looks really nice when she skates to serious, calm music because she seems to be a thoughtful, intelligent young lady.

2007 Japan Super Challenge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJtma0VNrPk

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

That performance reminded me of a toy box She herself looked an adorable, happy little kid both on- and off-ice (indeed she is very popular among kids!), I think it was a nice choice of music that underscored her own natural charm. Perhaps the Chopin piece this season might have more elegant, balletic moves and lines. She said in one of her talk shows that she likes music that has stories. It would be nice if she uses ballet music this season

Stories help the less innovative skaters to feel the character of the music. The story makes it easier for the skater. For me, I prefer a skater who gets the character of the music from the music, and not tied in with a story. Think early Kwan - never a story - just her and the music.

Joe

 

[morninglight]

Stories help the less innovative skaters to feel the character of the music. The story makes it easier for the skater. For me, I prefer a skater who gets the character of the music from the music, and not tied in with a story. Think early Kwan - never a story - just her and the music.

Joe

I think that people who have played any musical instruments would be good at it.

 

[Spun Silver]

Those vids of Ota are exquisite - even w/o music. What a talent! Do you think there is any chance of her going into ice dance?

 

[morninglight]

Those vids of Ota are exquisite - even w/o music. What a talent! Do you think there is any chance of her going into ice dance?

I haven't heard any information about her future plans. If I read something, I will post that

 

[shine]

Those vids of Ota are exquisite - even w/o music. What a talent! Do you think there is any chance of her going into ice dance?

I think she did try ice dancing briefly in 2005 and even went for senior tests in the US (and that's also when she performed with the Ice Theatre in New York as seen in the video posted by morninglight), but I don't think she was ever serious about becoming an ice dancer. As for me I would still like her to have the spotlight all to herself when she's on the ice And I desperately want her to be able to compete next season because for now I'm really deprived of female skaters to really root for

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think that people who have played any musical instruments would be good at it.

If the talent is there to skate, yes. If not, the viewer who also has a good concept of music can appreciate watching a skate routine done well.

Joe

 

[layman]

Skating = Ballet

Figure skating and ballet have always been intimitely associated one with the other.

The man who invented the modern steel blade figure skate in the 1850's (and who also invented Figure Skating itself), Mr. Jackson Haines (1840 - 1875) was a ballet master from New York City. During the American Civil War, he brought ballet on ice shows to Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Haines

 

[layman]

Modern Figure Skating was invented by a ballet dancer

Haines also invented toe-picks. He was the first to add the toe-pick onto his invention, the Figure Skate.