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- Apr 14, 2019
2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion but I was pleasantly surprised that Sasha‘s PCS were so low. I haven‘t really seen her skate yet so can‘t exactly judge but judging from test skates and her first challenger... if you have three quads it will inevitably include a lot of setting up. And quads take a lot of energy, obviously, so she won‘t have as much energy to spend on choreography, basic skating etc. I saw it at Ondrej Nepela. Those quads were amazing, history! But in the second half her stamina ran out a bit and the step sequence and choreography became a bit sloppy. Now, I know this sounds like nitpicking but imagine what 4 quads take of you then! That‘s a lot of just setting up, jumping and then setting up for another quad. Is it amazing that she can pull if off? Yes, of course! But if there‘s a loss in choreography and basic skating, then she should not be awarded any extra PCS, no matter how outstanding her technical content is.
The only thing that surprises me is that her TES isn‘t higher. I mean, she’s still going to win everything with TES like that but considering that she landed 4 quads, it still seems awfully low. Especially compared to Nepela Trophy where she bombed the 3Lz+3Lo. Also, I thought it was a rule that you had to do an Axel jump somewhere in the program. Did Sasha do that, or isn‘t that a rule and I‘m going crazy?
Despite all of this, now, I do wonder why you‘re all so worried. Compare Alina‘s PCS at JO in the Olympic season to the PCS she got at the OG. Yeah, I‘d say you can find quite the difference there... Sasha‘s PCS will rise just fine in time with her TES, don‘t worry about that.
As for Alina: LOVE the costume. It looks gorgeous on her. Now, I haven‘t seen her skate either but again, I‘m surprised anyone is surprised at her score or her PCS. She‘s gotten PCS like that in the past, what did you think, that they‘d just drop because Sasha is now around? Besides, if I‘m judging by the way she skated at test skates, I do think her PCS are deservedly higher than Sasha‘s. Whether it‘s about more than 10 points, I don‘t know. But her score is definitely not surprising, actually, didn‘t she get 159 or something at JO last year? And Alina‘s programs are good this year and she enjoys them and sells every second of them. And yes, because she doesn‘t have any quads, she can put more attention on the small things, which translates to higher PCS. I think you all know I‘ve complained about her PCS in the past and I still don‘t think she should get the highest in seniors. (imo here) And I also do think that Sasha has better skating skills than Alina. However, I‘ve seen it at Sasha’s first two competitions, the quads still understandably take so much energy that her basic skating becomes sloppy, especially in the second half. And Alina’s grown a lot artistically and that‘s very visible, especially if we compare her to someone like Sasha who.. well, who just has that journey still ahead of her.
Sasha still won and she‘ll continue to win. She’s unstoppable, that one. So, don‘t worry.
The only thing that surprises me is that her TES isn‘t higher. I mean, she’s still going to win everything with TES like that but considering that she landed 4 quads, it still seems awfully low. Especially compared to Nepela Trophy where she bombed the 3Lz+3Lo. Also, I thought it was a rule that you had to do an Axel jump somewhere in the program. Did Sasha do that, or isn‘t that a rule and I‘m going crazy?
Despite all of this, now, I do wonder why you‘re all so worried. Compare Alina‘s PCS at JO in the Olympic season to the PCS she got at the OG. Yeah, I‘d say you can find quite the difference there... Sasha‘s PCS will rise just fine in time with her TES, don‘t worry about that.
As for Alina: LOVE the costume. It looks gorgeous on her. Now, I haven‘t seen her skate either but again, I‘m surprised anyone is surprised at her score or her PCS. She‘s gotten PCS like that in the past, what did you think, that they‘d just drop because Sasha is now around? Besides, if I‘m judging by the way she skated at test skates, I do think her PCS are deservedly higher than Sasha‘s. Whether it‘s about more than 10 points, I don‘t know. But her score is definitely not surprising, actually, didn‘t she get 159 or something at JO last year? And Alina‘s programs are good this year and she enjoys them and sells every second of them. And yes, because she doesn‘t have any quads, she can put more attention on the small things, which translates to higher PCS. I think you all know I‘ve complained about her PCS in the past and I still don‘t think she should get the highest in seniors. (imo here) And I also do think that Sasha has better skating skills than Alina. However, I‘ve seen it at Sasha’s first two competitions, the quads still understandably take so much energy that her basic skating becomes sloppy, especially in the second half. And Alina’s grown a lot artistically and that‘s very visible, especially if we compare her to someone like Sasha who.. well, who just has that journey still ahead of her.
Sasha still won and she‘ll continue to win. She’s unstoppable, that one. So, don‘t worry.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2017
To me the Alina score is reasonable especially since she was clean and she seems to be enjoying the programs a lot. I don't understand Sasha's score compared to her previous PCS scores.
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- Nov 19, 2017
It doesn't work now/tremendously laggy. Is there alternative?
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- Jan 5, 2019
It's probably overloaded
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- Feb 10, 2018
I am not surprised with Alina's PCS either. She received more or less the same score she's received for a good performance for the whole last season, it's just you who has the problem with that.
On the positive note, Alina+Sasha together:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B3Osdjeptbh/
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2017
I gave an explanation for the current competition that I found "reasonable". I haven't seen the skates yet but I think if Alexandra was clean then she was underscored probably by around 5 points.
Generally, I was one of those who said that I don't expect the same PCS rise for Anna and Alexandra and even Aliona, earlier in this thread.
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- Apr 14, 2019
all three options are worth
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
Then, if we have videos or otherwise go from test skates, please be so kind to tell me where exactly Sasha deserves higher PCS. Because right now that‘s a lot of smoke and not a lot of arguments here. Maybe... skaters shouldn‘t automatically get high PCS if they‘re just out of juniors just because their TES is high? Maybe you actually have to mature and grow artistically to deserve them? Not everybody is a Kostornaya and even she‘s got a lot of growing ahead of her and is far from perfect. A lot of those things come with age and frankly, I‘m baffled why everyone‘s so outraged about the idea that 15 year olds aren‘t perfect at presentation, interpretation and all that stuff. I do agree that the judging is definitely not normal. Because it‘s not normal to grow from a 64-65 PCS skater to one with 75 in the span of just one year. People don’t change as quickly. But here we are, happens all the time. I don‘t even know why you‘re complaining, Sasha‘s PCS are going to rise soon and they‘re going to rise drastically. It‘s not fair but that‘s the way it is. So, yeah, maybe I agree with your statement but the conclusions we take from it probably couldn‘t be more different.
Maybe having a separate panel for PCS would help. But that‘s off-topic here.
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- Feb 10, 2018
https://ok.ru/live/1005196156545 now working, don't know how long
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- Jan 5, 2019
https://ok.ru/live/1005196156545 now working, don't know how long
LOL, how much actual skating will be shown? Enjoy the blessings of commercial TV ...
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- Feb 10, 2018
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- Dec 9, 2017
I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion but I was pleasantly surprised that Sasha‘s PCS were so low. I haven‘t really seen her skate yet so can‘t exactly judge but judging from test skates and her first challenger... if you have three quads it will inevitably include a lot of setting up. And quads take a lot of energy, obviously, so she won‘t have as much energy to spend on choreography, basic skating etc. I saw it at Ondrej Nepela. Those quads were amazing, history! But in the second half her stamina ran out a bit and the step sequence and choreography became a bit sloppy. Now, I know this sounds like nitpicking but imagine what 4 quads take of you then! That‘s a lot of just setting up, jumping and then setting up for another quad. Is it amazing that she can pull if off? Yes, of course! But if there‘s a loss in choreography and basic skating, then she should not be awarded any extra PCS, no matter how outstanding her technical content is.
The only thing that surprises me is that her TES isn‘t higher. I mean, she’s still going to win everything with TES like that but considering that she landed 4 quads, it still seems awfully low. Especially compared to Nepela Trophy where she bombed the 3Lz+3Lo. Also, I thought it was a rule that you had to do an Axel jump somewhere in the program. Did Sasha do that, or isn‘t that a rule and I‘m going crazy?
Despite all of this, now, I do wonder why you‘re all so worried. Compare Alina‘s PCS at JO in the Olympic season to the PCS she got at the OG. Yeah, I‘d say you can find quite the difference there... Sasha‘s PCS will rise just fine in time with her TES, don‘t worry about that.
As for Alina: LOVE the costume. It looks gorgeous on her. Now, I haven‘t seen her skate either but again, I‘m surprised anyone is surprised at her score or her PCS. She‘s gotten PCS like that in the past, what did you think, that they‘d just drop because Sasha is now around? Besides, if I‘m judging by the way she skated at test skates, I do think her PCS are deservedly higher than Sasha‘s. Whether it‘s about more than 10 points, I don‘t know. But her score is definitely not surprising, actually, didn‘t she get 159 or something at JO last year? And Alina‘s programs are good this year and she enjoys them and sells every second of them. And yes, because she doesn‘t have any quads, she can put more attention on the small things, which translates to higher PCS. I think you all know I‘ve complained about her PCS in the past and I still don‘t think she should get the highest in seniors. (imo here) And I also do think that Sasha has better skating skills than Alina. However, I‘ve seen it at Sasha’s first two competitions, the quads still understandably take so much energy that her basic skating becomes sloppy, especially in the second half. And Alina’s grown a lot artistically and that‘s very visible, especially if we compare her to someone like Sasha who.. well, who just has that journey still ahead of her.
Sasha still won and she‘ll continue to win. She’s unstoppable, that one. So, don‘t worry.
The problem isn't necessarily that Sasha is getting lower PCS than Alina. It's that her TES is only 17 points above Alina when she did 4 quads is kind of crazy. Granted, it would make sense if Sasha fell or had multiple smaller errors. But from what we can see, the only error was the 3-turn after the second 4T. I do think Alina should be getting the highest PCS of all the senior ladies we've seen so far this season (skating skills is the only area I can see further improvement in) based on her test skate and performance here. I think 74 is reasonable compared to the PCS of Evgenia and Lilbet with their errors in Shanghai. And I don't know if Sasha should be getting 10+ points less as I don't think she's as artistically stunted as many do. And that's only PE and IN anyways, Sasha has choreography, transitions, and skating skills. But even if that were the case, I just don't see how she isn't able to make up for the PCS difference with more than just 6 points with 4 quads. I love Alina infinitely more, but I mean she did 4 quads, no falls (and no UR?). And it's not just 4 quads, there are difficult combos, transitions, choreography, it's not an empty program with just quads. Let's say this was a competition between Sasha and Alina (or Rika, Evgenia, etc.), if she would've landed only 3 quads, she would've lost. That's what's crazy to me. What she lacks in PCS, she should more than make up with "only" 3 quads. Especially since her quads are much bigger than the top ladies' triples and she does have a full program (whether or not people enjoy the program).
Then, if we have videos or otherwise go from test skates, please be so kind to tell me where exactly Sasha deserves higher PCS. Because right now that‘s a lot of smoke and not a lot of arguments here. Maybe... skaters shouldn‘t automatically get high PCS if they‘re just out of juniors just because their TES is high? Maybe you actually have to mature and grow artistically to deserve them? Not everybody is a Kostornaya and even she‘s got a lot of growing ahead of her and is far from perfect. A lot of those things come with age and frankly, I‘m baffled why everyone‘s so outraged about the idea that 15 year olds aren‘t perfect at presentation, interpretation and all that stuff. I do agree that the judging is definitely not normal. Because it‘s not normal to grow from a 64-65 PCS skater to one with 75 in the span of just one year. People don’t change as quickly. But here we are, happens all the time. I don‘t even know why you‘re complaining, Sasha‘s PCS are going to rise soon and they‘re going to rise drastically. It‘s not fair but that‘s the way it is. So, yeah, maybe I agree with your statement but the conclusions we take from it probably couldn‘t be more different.
Maybe having a separate panel for PCS would help. But that‘s off-topic here.
Sasha should have higher PCS than she got now (63). She has better SS and posture than Zagitova and performs her pieces, she doesnt lack musicality. I dont see justified this more than 10 points gap in PCS between she and Zagitova. I can see 3-4 points, maximum 5, but not 11-12. And I am saying this based on what I ve seen her skating at the test skates and in Nepela. So if Zagitova got now 74-75, I would have given Sasha 69-70 points. But you are right, we have to be patient for that fair judging
that will come (wishful thinking).
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2015
Honestly I don't get why people are complaining about Alina's PCS. Yet again. Despite no one having seen the performance at all.
Going by how test skates went, I don't find 74 on PCS at all inflated. If she skated anything like she did at test skates then I dare say she would have been lowballed on that PCS. She got 74 PCS at World's last year, and she was definitely a lot more tentative there, and less expressive than she was at test skates. Cleopatra has better choreography, better transitions and is a programme she seems to be able to express better. Last year, her skating skills were her lowest scoring component – FYI, for the people who love to harp about her 'bent over' crossovers – and that comes across stronger with less crossovers and better speed across the ice as well with Cleopatra.
I mean, skating clean has always been a big component to the PCS and we saw it with her scores last season – when she was clean, her PCS went up and when she wasn't it went down. And from what I saw from accounts, she skated clean today. It looks to be the same this season. Zhenya got a 70 for a not so clean skate this weekend (with some problems with the levels on spins and steps) at Shanghai Cup, 72 at ACI where she was cleaner. 74 for a clean skate from Alina this season isn't really that out of the realm of imagination.
Sasha got 65 PCS at Nepala and had only one minor mistake on the 3Lz-Lo, quads were completely clean. She got 63 today, and she wasn't as clean (step out on the first 4S, turn out of the euler on the 4T combination I think) and so was slightly lower – only slightly. Juniors have never gotten really high PCS from the get go, which has never been something I agreed with per se, but it happens. It is unfortunate that this is the way things are, and she was underscored today, but in line with how scoring in this sport works, I don't really think it was that expected for me. I presume the set up for the quads may have also had a negative effect on her PCS today. But I do think eventually her PCS should go up to the late 60s at the very least, then cross up to the 70s with time.
Going by how test skates went, I don't find 74 on PCS at all inflated. If she skated anything like she did at test skates then I dare say she would have been lowballed on that PCS. She got 74 PCS at World's last year, and she was definitely a lot more tentative there, and less expressive than she was at test skates. Cleopatra has better choreography, better transitions and is a programme she seems to be able to express better. Last year, her skating skills were her lowest scoring component – FYI, for the people who love to harp about her 'bent over' crossovers – and that comes across stronger with less crossovers and better speed across the ice as well with Cleopatra.
I mean, skating clean has always been a big component to the PCS and we saw it with her scores last season – when she was clean, her PCS went up and when she wasn't it went down. And from what I saw from accounts, she skated clean today. It looks to be the same this season. Zhenya got a 70 for a not so clean skate this weekend (with some problems with the levels on spins and steps) at Shanghai Cup, 72 at ACI where she was cleaner. 74 for a clean skate from Alina this season isn't really that out of the realm of imagination.
Sasha got 65 PCS at Nepala and had only one minor mistake on the 3Lz-Lo, quads were completely clean. She got 63 today, and she wasn't as clean (step out on the first 4S, turn out of the euler on the 4T combination I think) and so was slightly lower – only slightly. Juniors have never gotten really high PCS from the get go, which has never been something I agreed with per se, but it happens. It is unfortunate that this is the way things are, and she was underscored today, but in line with how scoring in this sport works, I don't really think it was that expected for me. I presume the set up for the quads may have also had a negative effect on her PCS today. But I do think eventually her PCS should go up to the late 60s at the very least, then cross up to the 70s with time.
