2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Scott512]

Tuktamysheva did not talk with reporters after performing in Finland

Russian figure skater Yelizaveta Tuktamysheva refused to talk with reporters after her performance at the Finlandia Trophy tournament in Espoo.

Tuktamysheva performed her short program without falls, receiving 72.66 points for her performance, which allowed her to take second place (the first was Alyona Kostornaya, 77.25).

“Everything is fine, I am satisfied, no comment,” said the skater in a sad voice in the mixed zone.
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https://sport24.ru/news/other/2019-...zhurnalistami-posle-vystupleniya-v-finlyandii

Liza s pissed she is 5 points behind newcomer Alena. I don't blame her but as the elder stateswoman of Russian ladies figure skating at the highest level she needs to be better than that and speak to the media. But I also don't blame Liza if she's upset at all these eteri girls that become seniors and never have any growing pains and start off with huge scores right away. It's unbelievable what the great coach has done with Zhenya Alina Sasha Anna and Alena the past few years. I have never seen anything like it. In my humble opinion these girls deserve their big scores right off the bat but I don't blame other skaters if it frustrates them. They are only human after all.

Finally, I agree with everything you say LOL! It is a very difficult situation for all Russian Ladies as the competition is insane. And yes, neither Gubanova or Tarusina has been as successful as Maria, but that's mainly because they didn't have the chance because of the fierce competition at home.

Yeah Mishaminion left that important to tell out how the competition with the Russinas is like 10 times harder now than when Maria was at her best in 2017 and 18. That said I feel for Maria I hope she makes a comeback this year and starts to skate a lot better. But she has a lot on her mind no doubt and has been through a lot and we should all cut her slack.

I agree... Gabriel Daleman wasn't great today .. and if you go to the post of canadian figure skating no one is asking for her head or telling to stay at home... with maria she have the score to GP, she isn't in the best shape and lost some jumps ( I don't know why) but at same time she can recovery who know's ...

Gabby has virtually no competition compared to what the Russian ladies have to go through. That said I'm certainly hoping Gabby has a good season and is happy. Sometimes we forget how tough is sport is on these athletes like Gabby. Its so tough on and off the ice.

 

[Scott512]

That is a lovely thought Vilord. The "comeback-rule". I don't think Sotskova is qualified for that one though. You had to be top 6 at the Worlds for that(?). But Radionova and Pogorilaya can use it!. What a nightmare for RusFed if they decide to get back in the mix. They already have potenitally 14 skaters fighting for 9x2 GP spots next year. Clearly, ISU needs to address this as well as other "Guaranteed spots" and how to prioritize in the rules.

I agree 100% but the isu isnt doing anything about any of this. If Russia or any country has say 10 skaters in the top 30 of any discipline said country should get more spots. But thats common sense. iSU isnt doing anyhting to help makes things better.

 

[Ziotic]

I agree 100% but the isu isnt doing anything about any of this. If Russia or any country has say 10 skaters in the top 30 of any discipline said country should get more spots. But thats common sense. iSU isnt doing anyhting to help makes things better.

While this is your opinion, it’s not everyone’s. I don’t want to see more than 3 Russians at worlds and most likely I will only want to see one of the Russians they end up sending.

I’d much rather watch some of the smaller fed performers with their joy and excitement then a continuous stream of Russian programs. I can do that on the GP.

 

[Scott512]

In comparison with Lombardia, this was like 100 % better. I don't understand anything
(And I say that while still preferring Aliona's program more)

Get ready for a wild ride this season! :agree: Liza will be out for revenge on all! And she is in awesome shape to start her 8th season. Amazing. Especailly since many of the younger Russian ladies have left the sport. Liza keeps plugging away and getting better. Unbelievable. Today she was disrespected scoring wise whilst brilliant Alyiona was shown more respect by the judges in her senior debut than Liza was in her 8th season. It kind of made Liza go hmmmmmmm. I cant blame her. But AK1 really deserved that SP score.

 

[Scott512]

While this is your opinion, it’s not everyone’s. I don’t want to see more than 3 Russians at worlds and most likely I will only want to see one of the Russians they end up sending.

I’d much rather watch some of the smaller fed performers with their joy and excitement then a continuous stream of Russian programs. I can do that on the GP.

Smaller fed skaters would have more joy than the #7 Russian lady? I dont buy it. The Russian ladies bring excitement and joy and endless talent they are making ladies figure skating bigger than mens figure skating! I want the sport better with stronger competitors not weaker ones although I want the smaller feds in the mix as wel. And yes my opinion is not everyones.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

While I like Liza and I thought she was underscored on a few of the elements (particularly the 3A), there are things she has to improve on to compete now that she is getting surpassed by the women on BV. Her spins are bad; there's really no other way to put it. She skated passionately today, but she needs more dance training or something to help her move more elegantly. As a fan, I just get frustrated that her team can't get their act together to help her in the areas she needs it. It cost her a Worlds spot last year, and probably other placements in the past.

 

[readernick]

I agree 100% but the isu isnt doing anything about any of this. If Russia or any country has say 10 skaters in the top 30 of any discipline said country should get more spots. But thats common sense. iSU isnt doing anyhting to help makes things better.

I disagree. First, Russia has not yet even swept the world's podium. It happened.with US women in the 90's and they did not get more spots. Second, this same situation where one country is a lot better than others exists in other sports. (many in fact..US women in artistic gymnastics, China in diving and table tennis, The Netherlands in speed skating and on and on) limits are set for the number of competitors from each country because for a sport to be in the Olympics it needs to be international it can't be only controlled by one country. I like seeing skaters from the Phillipines, Malaysia and so on. It means the sport will grow. If more Russian skaters are allowed to skate, there will be no space for such skaters.

 

[Scott512]

I disagree. First, Russia has not yet even swept the world's podium. It happened.with US women in the 90's and they did not get more spots. Second, this same situation where one country is a lot better than others exists in other sports. (many in fact..US women in artistic gymnastics, China in diving and table tennis, The Netherlands in speed skating and on and on) limits are set for the number of competitors from each country because for a sport to be in the Olympics it needs to be international it can't be only controlled by one country. I like seeing skaters from the Phillipines, Malaysia and so on. It means the short will grow. If more Russian skaters are allowed to skate, there will be no space for such skaters.

the best merit-based sports out there are tennis and golf who go by rankings what you're doing by achievement and successes. I would like figure skating be more merit-based but it's asking a lot and that won't happen. The idea should be to make competition stronger and better but that isn't the case in every sport. In every aspect of life the weak get pushed aside. That's sports and that's life. I don't like these events where everyone gets a trophy and all of that. The better the talent the better the sport.

The United States in the 1990s did not go 12 or 13 deep and ladies figure skating the way the Russians do and they didn't have a funnel of Juniors coming up to add to the greatness already there that the Russians do. It is what it is.

 

[readernick]

About this competition, this is the best I have ever seen both Aliona and Elizaveta skate. Aliona because she has had time to perfect this program and Elizaveta because it is obviously the best program she has ever had. The GOE on Liza's jumps was too low and the e on the flip a bit harsh. She needs to work on her non jump elements.

Honestly, I have such a soft spot for all ladies who jump the 3A. It is such a beautiful jump. Aliona and Rika are my favorites. Elizaveta's basic skating is not at their level but this program is such a step up. I think they are the three skaters who will have my heart this year.

 

[Skater Boy]

Liza should try to be positive. She lost marks for the flip, a couple of spins and step sequence and she is contininuing to improve her pcs. That is probably with GOE's about 5 to 7 pts. So she could be just above 80 with a clean skate

 

[readernick]

the best merit-based sports out there are tennis and golf who go by rankings what you're doing by achievement and successes. I would like figure skating be more merit-based but it's asking a lot and that won't happen. The idea should be to make competition stronger and better but that isn't the case in every sport. In every aspect of life the weak get pushed aside. That's sports and that's life. I don't like these events where everyone gets a trophy and all of that. The better the talent the better the sport.

The United States in the 1990s did not go 12 or 13 deep and ladies figure skating the way the Russians do and they didn't have a funnel of Juniors coming up to add to the greatness already there that the Russians do. It is what it is.

Well, then they should sweep the world's podium. It might happen this year.. who knows? People have been saying they will do it for the last 5 years but in the end it hasn't happened. But, your comment did not respond to my basic argument which is that this situation ( one country being so much better than others) exists in many sports. I could make a list of 20 or more such sports. Yet, the governing bodies of all those sports have decided to limit the number of spots in world and Olympic competition. Why? For the sake of making a sport grow... people want to see competitors from their own country on the world stage... it inspires them to get involved. Javier did this for Spain. Carolina for Italy (there are a lot of young junior Italian girls with promise) . Julian for Malaysia. Michael Christen Martinez for the Philippines. Dennis Ten for Kazakstan. Seeing 10 Russian girls at the world championship would never inspire skaters from non participant nations like these skaters from small feds do....

 

[Ophelia]

While I like Liza and I thought she was underscored on a few of the elements (particularly the 3A), there are things she has to improve on to compete now that she is getting surpassed by the women on BV. Her spins are bad; there's really no other way to put it. She skated passionately today, but she needs more dance training or something to help her move more elegantly. As a fan, I just get frustrated that her team can't get their act together to help her in the areas she needs it. It cost her a Worlds spot last year, and probably other placements in the past.

I've been saying over and over that Tukt is one of the most one-dimensional skaters out there. Beyond her jumps and the 3A, she doesn't have much else going in her skating. She and her team have completely ignored developing her other skating skills, and she has had YEARS to improve, so I don't get why she and camp Mishin are acting all "surprised Pikachu" at the current results.

 

[skatenewbie]

Liza /Mishin surprised with low score nit because of the PCS. They probably knew her PCS wont be high. Its the TES that shock them, she didnt even get 40? in TES. She land all her jump cleanly. Now they should know that Liza get dinged in flip with edge call and lose 2 spins level and step level. Obviously they expect 77~ at least with such a clean skate

 

[NAOTMAA]

I'm under the impression that no matter how textbook (correct edge, height, landing) Liza's jumps are they tend to get low GOE because she barely does any transitions going into and out of her jumps. She stalks her jumps far too much (which shows even more with the non-existent choreography). I remember Mishin once said, years back, that the reason skaters do fancy moves in and out of jumps was to disguise the fact that they can't do the jumps properly. He's right but he never seem to get the memo that the judges don't particularly care for the most part even when penalizing a wrong edge.

It's like Mishin never really studied COP or saw what made others so successful with it and adapted because he was stuck in his own narrow belief system and refused to bend even a little. The same issues have been the same issues for years with his skaters and despite that he hasn't tried to change his ways. I mean kudos to him for sticking to his personal principles but he also loses the right to look shocked when the scores are low. He should know by now

 

[tempo]

Cup of Russia, stage 2.
Ladies, short program (both KMS and MS ranks).

Live stream (at 16:15 msk, 7 hours countdown):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj12cg3opQk

 

[Sugar Coated]

I'm under the impression that no matter how textbook (correct edge, height, landing) Liza's jumps are they tend to get low GOE because she barely does any transitions going into and out of her jumps. She stalks her jumps far too much (which shows even more with the non-existent choreography). I remember Mishin once said, years back, that the reason skaters do fancy moves in and out of jumps was to disguise the fact that they can't do the jumps properly. He's right but he never seem to get the memo that the judges don't particularly care for the most part even when penalizing a wrong edge.

It's like Mishin never really studied COP or saw what made others so successful with it and adapted because he was stuck in his own narrow belief system and refused to bend even a little. The same issues have been the same issues for years with his skaters and despite that he hasn't tried to change his ways. I mean kudos to him for sticking to his personal principles but he also loses the right to look shocked when the scores are low. He should know by now

Honestly, she is so much better with her transitions into jumps this season. I mean still not near as good as the Eteri girls but I definitely think she and her team have been working on it. I sense that Mishin is reluctant to focus too much on transitions but also realizes that this must happen with the current judging.

 

[nussnacker]

On the other hand, the GOEs weren’t as critical if we think about it. It just shows how much all the “non-jump” stuff can add to the base value. Aside from the lip call, with hitting the maximum on her levels, Aliona essentially closed the gap between their base values. She also hit all the GOEs on her spins and stsq, and that essentially made all the difference.
I noticed the same thing with Daniil Samsonov. All the non-jump elements added quite a bit to the base value, that other boys didn’t have and he did, it practically gave him a point difference of one jump just in base value. And his goes on those elements were higher, he was getting in lead largely due to those things.

Those are points thrown away by many coaches, and this team drills them quite hard, and it clearly shows how big of a difference spins and stsq can make.

 

[Vilord]

That is a lovely thought Vilord. The "comeback-rule". I don't think Sotskova is qualified for that one though. You had to be top 6 at the Worlds for that(?). But Radionova and Pogorilaya can use it!. What a nightmare for RusFed if they decide to get back in the mix. They already have potenitally 14 skaters fighting for 9x2 GP spots next year. Clearly, ISU needs to address this as well as other "Guaranteed spots" and how to prioritize in the rules.

Ok then I had misunderstood that rule but still there are other ways back. Just look at Sima who have been out for some seasons and are now back. However it works out for Sotskova this season I wish her all the best.

 

[Gourlie]

Can't wait for tomorrow's battle of triple Axels. May the best skater win.

 

[Edwin]

The judging was impacted by their start orders. The item-order effect is a principle you see in psychology that means that when judging a group of things, the ordering unconsciously impacts ones judgment, and I think this definitely comes into play in challengers when skaters are assigned to random flights and start orders.

Thanks for explaining the item-order effect

Judging is all about ranking, and Alyona delivering this excellent routine as first contestant really proved your point IMO.

She is last on the ice on Sunday afternoon, when it really matters to get those high TES and PCS relative to Tuktamysheva who skated just previously.