If you see he or she is FLAT when he or she dose the Lutz, you will say its the FLUTZ jump.
The Lip as well as theFlutz.
But I think yu nas Lip is not "obviously".
So I dont know whether judges give a demerit mark .
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New ISU rule changes: "Flutzing" addressed
- Thread starter Mathman
- Start date
If you see he or she is FLAT when he or she dose the Lutz, you will say its the FLUTZ jump.
The Lip as well as theFlutz.
But I think yu nas Lip is not "obviously".
So I dont know whether judges give a demerit mark .
Y
ykcami
Guest
If you see he or she is FLAT when he or she dose the Lutz, you will say its the FLUTZ jump.
The Lip as well as theFlutz.
But I think yu nas Lip is not "obviously".
So I dont know whether judges give a demerit mark .
Are you kidding?
The Lip isn't as well as The Flutz.
Figure skaters use a sightly inside edge of nearly flat edge when they jump a Flip.
The Lip jumper uses a "outside" edge when they take off.
And Yu-Na uses a inside edge of nearly flat edge when she jumps a Flip.
Please watch Yu-Na's SP & LP in worlds cafefully.
And then you still catch Yu-Na's true Filp wrongly, you should get an eyesight test.
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- Joined
- Sep 27, 2005
We'll see...
This new season, we'll see what happen.
The Technical Specialists and The Judges show us how they see about this matter.
BTW at the Tokoy World, Yu-Na Kim did two triple flip - triple toeloop combo (in her short program as well as free program) and both got the highest GOE iIncluding 'gentlemen' skaters in that competition.
If you see he or she is FLAT when he or she dose the Lutz, you will say its the FLUTZ jump.
The Lip as well as theFlutz.
But I think yu nas Lip is not "obviously".
So I dont know whether judges give a demerit mark .
This new season, we'll see what happen.
The Technical Specialists and The Judges show us how they see about this matter.
BTW at the Tokoy World, Yu-Na Kim did two triple flip - triple toeloop combo (in her short program as well as free program) and both got the highest GOE iIncluding 'gentlemen' skaters in that competition.
You are a liar and need to know the base of jumps.
LBI edge is NOT FLAT.
Additionally,both the Flutz & Lip are wrong edge jumps.
See also.
http://www.soyouwanna.com/site/syws/skating/skating3.html#para3
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2005
You're right!
DITTO!!~~ :agree:
And then you still catch Yu-Na's true Filp wrongly, you should get an eyesight test.
DITTO!!~~ :agree:
Y
ykcami
Guest
You are a liar and need to know the base of jumps.
LBI edge is NOT FLAT.
Additionally,both the Flutz & Lip are wrong edge jumps.
See also.
http://www.soyouwanna.com/site/syws/skating/skating3.html#para3
I'm not a liar.
It's a my typing mistake.
I corrected errors.
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- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
Then, when you see a skater who has lutz & Flip jumps taken off from flat edges,how do you distinguish them?
Another point to look at is how Yuna maneuvers her left foot to get to the point where she can exert a force on the ice to create the reaction force off the ice. That reaction force is used to launch her body into the air (See Yuna's SP at worlds). It clearly shows that she is using the left forward inside edge to take off.
In fact, Yuna's flip is the best among all the women currently in competition because, in figure skating mechanics' point of view, the smaller the angle between the imaginary vertical line drawn from the ice and the orientation of the inside edge, the better. So she is optimizing her left foot orientation with repect to the ice surface to create the optimum reaction force on the ice by making the angle as small as possible (cos x, where x is the angle in trigonometry). I could talk about the mechanics of figure skating jumping, but it is a long story and so I wouldn't do it for now.
If anybody can't see Yuna's Flip, he has to acknowledge his lack of knowledge in figure skating. Also, anybody who teaches flip jumping otherwise, he should be out of coaching profession.
That is it for now.
Metapour
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uhm...
See this one.
http://kago-ai-chan.net/uploader/img/naver6608.jpg
Sorry.But I cannot see it's LBI edge.
Should I go to the ophthalmology department?
See this one.
http://kago-ai-chan.net/uploader/img/naver6608.jpg
Sorry.But I cannot see it's LBI edge.
Should I go to the ophthalmology department?
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
Then, when you see a skater who has lutz & Flip jumps taken off from flat edges,how do you distinguish them?
From the entrance of course. Lutz = enter from a back glide, Flip = enter from a mohawk or 3-turn. That sets the jumps apart more than the edge and, to me, the high difficulty of the Lutz is due more to the fact that it is the ONLY jump you can't rotate into. You're still entering from that back glide with a Flutz; it's not an easy jump. What makes a Flutz a bit easier than a true Lutz is that the push onto the inside edge gives the skater a little more snap, which adds to the momentum of the jump. It really doesn't add much extra snap if you start on an outside edge and are just on a flat by the time you jump, which is why I don't think that execution qualifies as a Flutz.
~Z
Here is a video about flip jumps including Yuna's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSrJx1XR1IE
A flip is generally entered from a LFO 3-turn or mohawk turn. If a LFO3 is used, the turn must be very flat so the skater is not gliding on a deep curve before picking. Thus the skater doesn't have a deep inside edge but a slight inside edge which is almost flat.
Mao has a deep inside edge with a flip. But it is because she enters into a flip jump in completely different way which all other skaters do.
A flip is a natural-rotation jumps. Natural-rotation jumps are characterized by the skater gliding into the jump in the same direction to which he will rotate in the air. Counterclockwise skaters will glide counterclockwise into the jump and will execute the rotation in their natural counterclockwise direction.
But only Mao, who is a counterclockwise skater, glide 'clockwise' into the jump after turn. Any other counterclockwise skaters don't glide 'clockwise' into the jump. It is a way which is used in counter-rotation jumps. Therefore she uses the deep inside edge in order to change the clockwise direction into a counterclockwise direction momentarily.
I have a question. Mao's flip is not a normal way. Is it no problem?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSrJx1XR1IE
A flip is generally entered from a LFO 3-turn or mohawk turn. If a LFO3 is used, the turn must be very flat so the skater is not gliding on a deep curve before picking. Thus the skater doesn't have a deep inside edge but a slight inside edge which is almost flat.
Mao has a deep inside edge with a flip. But it is because she enters into a flip jump in completely different way which all other skaters do.
A flip is a natural-rotation jumps. Natural-rotation jumps are characterized by the skater gliding into the jump in the same direction to which he will rotate in the air. Counterclockwise skaters will glide counterclockwise into the jump and will execute the rotation in their natural counterclockwise direction.
But only Mao, who is a counterclockwise skater, glide 'clockwise' into the jump after turn. Any other counterclockwise skaters don't glide 'clockwise' into the jump. It is a way which is used in counter-rotation jumps. Therefore she uses the deep inside edge in order to change the clockwise direction into a counterclockwise direction momentarily.
I have a question. Mao's flip is not a normal way. Is it no problem?
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- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
uhm...
See this one.
http://kago-ai-chan.net/uploader/img/naver6608.jpg
Sorry.But I cannot see it's LBI edge.
Should I go to the ophthalmology department?
So what? That's definitely not a LIP.
Like the Flutz, what makes a Lip a bit easier than a Flip is the skater rocking onto the opposing edge to generate extra momentum into the jump. Yu-Na definitely does not do that and her Flip is absolutely beautiful.
~Z
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
Well an awful lot of true lutz jumpers going into the jump on a shallow inside edge, check the arms and lean into a strong back outside edge in preparation for the pick in...would you call that starting out ont he wrong edge?
Ant
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
seems like most of the skaters who enter with the mohawk do not do a proper flip. i have noticed that at my rink as well, that the skaters with the mohawk to not have very nice looking flips. It is beyond me why any coach would teach thier students to enter the jump that way. it dosne't look very nice and seems to be a formula for bad tecqunice.
I dont intend to have an ugly quarrel.
ya? then why don't you knock it off, would you?
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2004
I don't think a mohawk into a flip jump leads to bad technique. I struggled for months with the flip from a three turn, and it improved 100 times when my coach finally suggested using a mohawk intrance instead. And IMHO, it looks just as nice as a three-turn entry.
