New ISU rule changes: "Flutzing" addressed | Page 10 | Golden Skate

New ISU rule changes: "Flutzing" addressed

I love this thread. It went from Flutzing, to Lipping to Sitspins, although all very interesting. I look forward to grossano's post on the clarification of ISU 1445.

Joe
 
Part of the problem with 1445 I was told (by someone who has first hand knowledge) is that when the text was decided, the group creating it had no one who spoke English as a first language. One rep. (from the U.S.) couldn't make it to the meeting and another was injured in the Sydney boating accident. As a result, some of the wording is not totally clear ( key word missing here or there), and in other cases what was written into it what was nat what was intended. Anyway hopefully it will all be cleared up in a week or so.

Also to be decided is whether the flutz rule and the new "can't repeat a spin code" rule will be used in the U.S. for Novice and below. From what I have heard so far, the spin code rule will probably apply at all U.S. levels, but the flutz rule may or may not be applied to doubles (in Novice and below). Those two things have yet to be finalized internally in the U.S.
 
Joesitz said:
I love this thread. It went from Flutzing, to Lipping to Sitspins, although all very interesting. I look forward to grossano's post on the clarification of ISU 1445.
Click to expand...

Ditto:agree:

I wonder if judges view the same types of clarification videos that were posted. ??? Do they have those types of videos to help "ratification processes" during these meetings?
 
Thanks gsrossano!:clap: Love that info. It is very interesting to "see the steps" in these types of proceedings.
 
Very interesting. So under CoP rules it is more important to achieve a difficult if not impossible position than actually to do a sit spin in the traditional sense.
 
^one thing that seems to validate any sport, make it "honest, is to take a factor and say "It is or is not." Plain and simple.;) If they don't have that attitude it is acutely not really a "fair" sport IMO.:biggrin: And most sports I can think of folow the same suit. It is something FS needs to address if it hopes to stay valid in the sports worlds eyes. And I would think the athletes as well. I am sure Fumie "could be" a little puzzled at how Miki's sit spin is considered the same designation as her's???? Johnny watching Plushy, I would imagine he is thinking the same thing too.

It is like a touch down being scored for one team only when they cross the line, but the other team can just get within a yard for it to count.

"well that pitcher has a lot of good presentation skills, so we will make his strike zone a little bigger. w.t.h????

"It don't compute."

So how many points for a "squat spin?":laugh::agree:
 
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the 1st one is a 'Sit spin with twist variation', according to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_skating_spins
(Alban Preaubert's pic)

the 2nd and the 3rd (Cannonball variation) ones gotta be sit spins as well.

The 2nd photo, BTW, demonstrates that it's not "practically impossible to perform this variation in any other way", like in the 1st photo ;-)
 
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Joesitz said:
I think the US Ladies of today do the correct edge take off for the Lutz. I'm not so sure about the new boys on the block but Evan and Johnny seem to have a good back outide edge. American skaters have been so lacksadaisical about this because of Tara getting away with it. I think now it has been recognized as a fault and I am glad there will be no more plusses in the GoEs for a flutz.

Joe
Click to expand...

Sounds good ISU finally pay attentions. Not so far ago, we had two ladies won OGM with flutz, and one won OGM with lip. So why bother?
 
Hsuhs said:
Plushy's rep has already been protected by this:



http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-178556-195774-112293-0-file,00.pdf
Click to expand...

Note however, this is a clarification for the 2006/07 season -- where the sit spin definition was no more than 90 degree angle at the knee joint. There is a new definition for the sit position for 2007/08, which will be followed by new clarifications.

When I heard the new requirement, one thing I wondered about was how the pancake with leg under thigh would be handled, since it is next to impossible to do that and still keep the hip below the knee.

You would think in the 150 years since Jackson Haines invented it, people would know how to define a sit spin!
 
This is all so silly. The sitspin is a spin where a skater goes A:LL THE WAY DOWN so that his behind is almost scraping the ice. That's what Jackson Haynes did and that's what it is.

I am not against what apparently are variations on the sitspin, I just want to give them another name if they do not go all the way down. What's wrong with that?
Their base value could even be higher than the tougher all-the-way-down sitspin, if that makes one happier.

What makes a sitspin tough is not the going down but the comin up!!! I understand that Plushenko has a lung condition which, of course, he must constantly save energy so that the last minute can be filled with CoP bonus jumps. Jumps do not take up much energy but they are difficult if one is tired.

I believe there were no English speaking people on this Panel. Am I correct?

Joe
 
A little bit OT, but I was just searching for a picture of Jackson Haines doing a sit spin, and I came across this staement in a 1941 Time magazine article celebrating 100 years of figure skating:

"Every good figure skater can do a Jackson Haines spin, the showy sit-spin that has helped make ice shows a popular U. S. entertainment. But few U. S. skaters know much about Jackson Haines, the father of figure skating.

"Jackson Haines was not the first skater to trace a pattern on ice. As far back as 1642, there was a skating club in Edinburgh, whose membership was confined to those who could 'skate a complete circle on each foot and jump over first one, then two, then three hats.'

(Three hats = base value 2.8 with +0.5 GOE for unusual arm position in the air -- the Tano hat trick.)
 
The official language of the ISU is English. As grossano pointed out, there were no native English speakers on the panel. Writing in a non-native language is difficult, and writing rules which require precision is even more so.
 
Mathman said:
I think the problem that the CoP faces is, yes, we know how to define a level 1 sit spin:

http://mathomhouse.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/torino_johnny_weir.jpg

Buit in the new judging system that's a loser.
Click to expand...

This pic isn't illustrative for Level 1 kind of sit spin. There's nothing wrong with that position, as it was counted as a difficult variation.

hockeyfan228 said:
Writing in a non-native language is difficult
Click to expand...

Ha! Tell me about it ;-)
 
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Hsuhs said:
This pic isn't illustrative for Level 1 kind of sit spin. There's nothing wrong with that position, as it was counted as a difficult variation.
Click to expand...
It was? What's difficult about it? I mean, all positions are difficult, but isn't this the basic thing that we mean when we talk about a sit spin? So then, that is one position (now you've got a level 1), then you stick your arms down like this

http://nymag.com/health/features/regimen060213_1_560.jpg

and now your element is a level two, then you change edge and go in the opposite direction and it's a level 3. Isn't that it?

Is this a "difficult position," or is it just, "This is how to do a sit spin. When I finish with this I'll show you how to do a spiral."
 
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