If the tech panel has a different angle that is hard to see, then they should give the skater the benefit of a doubt. That didn't happen here.
2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
If the tech panel has a different angle that is hard to see, then they should give the skater the benefit of a doubt. That didn't happen here.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2015
I don't see how you don't see the shift. It is clear in your video.
I think it starts between 0:31 and 0:32 and ends between 3:22 and 3:23. But that's not relevant, you really need to time it with a stopwatch. It was less than a second over 2:50 if you're super precise. If they want to be sure it doesn't happen again, I think they just need to postpone the start (the moment she starts moving) by a second and they should be fine.
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2017
Both Alina and Alena skated well under the circumstances. I haven't seen all the programs yet but seen the top 6. They were better than the others. Neither for both them that was the maximum and that's the positive and promising side. The negative is that may affect the GPF chances on a point draw.
Both PCSs were justified and actually underscored compared to other GPs so far. Alina delivered quite an emotional performance with the highlight being the step sequence, spins and the entrance, execution, exit of 3F. She is the only one that has her supporting leg straight end extended in all spins. Especially on illusion spin where no one achieves that. A bit more relaxed than needed probably.
Alena was familiar with her program already. Increased the technical side with a nice 3A but got the senior boost for that. Nice flow across the ice a bit less speed on step sequence than what someone would have expect for her quality. Great spins and presentation. Generally underscored. I bit more nervous than needed probably.
Both PCSs were justified and actually underscored compared to other GPs so far. Alina delivered quite an emotional performance with the highlight being the step sequence, spins and the entrance, execution, exit of 3F. She is the only one that has her supporting leg straight end extended in all spins. Especially on illusion spin where no one achieves that. A bit more relaxed than needed probably.
Alena was familiar with her program already. Increased the technical side with a nice 3A but got the senior boost for that. Nice flow across the ice a bit less speed on step sequence than what someone would have expect for her quality. Great spins and presentation. Generally underscored. I bit more nervous than needed probably.
I certainly could be wrong on when she starts but 0.29 was when I tought she started to move (And based on the call I would guess that the timekeeper agrees with me). I am sure that Eteris team will ask the TP about that call (coaches have a right to ask for an explanation of all calls from the referee) and make changes so this never happens again. Skaters can and often do haave music that runs for longer than 2.50 but they cant skate for longer than that meaning if they stand still for a few seconds in the end or begining the music can be 2.55 or 3min as long as the total skating time isnt over 2.50. Similairly if someone goes over their music but it only is 2.45 they wont get time vio since that skating time still was under 2.50.
Be glad this happened in a comp when the chance of Alina and Alena not getting 1st and 2nd is miniscule and not in say GPF or RusNats
edit. So because im a neard I went on to YT to watch another video on Zagitova where one could see better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nobRVJVphOg
Program starts: She starts rasing her hands at 2.48
Program ends: She stops lowering her arm at 3.39
which gives me a skating time of 2.51
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2015
Well, I decided to delete it because it is a bad video. But, it clearly shows that Alina's lutz edge used to be outside and now it is flat. Don't look at the claims of the youtuber just look at footage.This video is as misleading as it is funny and I just LMAO
There I would disagree with you. If Caroline Kostner is a or the standard, then Zagitova has surpassed the standard. The level of sheer confidence she has on the ice was-yesterday at least-on a different level from Aloyna. Her skating style is her skating style-and that is what it is-a style. I was never a fan of Kostner, and yet, others think she was the greatest ever. PCS might have guidelines, but most of it is subjective. Alina commands the ice like no other skater around right now.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
retweet!!!!
It's disheartening to see people trying to whitewash blatantly incorrect judges decisions. We got to the point where wrong edge call is being excused by technical specialists having their camera at the unspecified angle which allowed them to make such call. And when a visual evidence from the most suitable angle to judge this call is shown then people still refuse that takeoff was from the right edge.
Now we have 'e' call out of thin air. When time comes there will be one more argument to whitewash nonexistent 'e' calls. "See", we will hear, "She had 'e' calls in the past, just look at the 2019 IdF protocols". And who will go and unearth the fact that this protocol has an invented 'e' call in it. Not many. So they will be persuaded that judges were right when in reality they were not.
Now we have 'e' call out of thin air. When time comes there will be one more argument to whitewash nonexistent 'e' calls. "See", we will hear, "She had 'e' calls in the past, just look at the 2019 IdF protocols". And who will go and unearth the fact that this protocol has an invented 'e' call in it. Not many. So they will be persuaded that judges were right when in reality they were not.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I'm just saying a stopwatch is relevant and not youtube start and end times, especially when it is a matter of less than 1 second. If this is really what caused it, it was strict, but justifiable. I still cannot believe the federation would release the statement about the arm drop, I find that hard to believe.
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2017
I also cannot understand why they said something like that. Did they just pass what the Technical Panel said to them or was it their interpretation of the reduction? Anyway, I think this is a minor issue and we already spend a lot of comments on that.
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2019
Hahah omg she actually measured the angle of Alina's lutz edge with a protractor [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] lmao lolThis video is as misleading as it is funny and I just LMAO
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2015
- Joined
- May 28, 2019
I'm sure RusFed just passed the TechPanel's opinion, because they couldn't post their own due to the abundance of profanities in it.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
^
Its true you would get better accuracy with something like a stopwatch that can detects tenth of seconds since youtube only shows complete seconds. One could if ine wanted count frames and come up with a higher precision time from the YT video I linked but I dont have the energy for that.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
This whole discussion is so tiresome. We‘ve heard how much you disagree with the judging already. I understand, I was outraged too for a while. (Admittedly, I’m still not happy with Aliona’s score) But for that long? I mean... don‘t we have different things to discuss? Alina‘s SP had an UR and an edge call, alright. If it was a false call (I‘m saying if here because I literally have no idea from the video I‘ve seen, that‘s like the worst angle ever) she will not get any calls at her next event. But considering that she has never even received !, e was probably way too harsh. But still. Her SP score is 74. Very low for her standards, of course. But her PCS were high as usually and given her usual scores on the 3Lz+3Lo, this program will most certainly score up to 80-82 at the next event anyway. That‘s not too bad, is it? As for the deduction. It seems like a random call but I think Eteri and Daniil will shorten it a bit so that it makes no difference if Alina raises her hand or lowers it or dances in circles during the last seconds of the program. 
However, considering the outrage, I‘m pretty sure judging will be back to what it was before today. So, let‘s all wait for a 155-158 score for Alina.
Actually, thinking about it for a while, I don‘t even think the judging was so bad here. At least they weren’t biased and everyone got harsh calls. What I think the main problem is, is that the other events had more lenient judges which makes the difference in scores unfair. Scores count for tiebreaker after all. So either judge all events like that so that it evens out and everyone gets lower scores, or none. Don’t randomly start with the third GP. That‘s what I don’t understand.
Nevertheless, let‘s move on:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4XDiyEIBTt/?igshid=bxk2rpacqwtd
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4W_rKlIibn/?igshid=1xjt9j5ufdhmi
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4XErdaoTMi/?igshid=133gujpp332qf
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4XAQuGodGn/?igshid=13cjjaj59golx
Here‘s a few videos from training. Alina had a clean practice again from what teamzagitova wrote. I‘m sure she‘ll be 100% clean today to prove that yesterday’s judging was a mistake. That will be her mindset, she has the experience. I‘m not sure about Aliona but I hope she isn‘t discouraged but rather hungry and does her best today, too.
However, considering the outrage, I‘m pretty sure judging will be back to what it was before today. So, let‘s all wait for a 155-158 score for Alina.
Actually, thinking about it for a while, I don‘t even think the judging was so bad here. At least they weren’t biased and everyone got harsh calls. What I think the main problem is, is that the other events had more lenient judges which makes the difference in scores unfair. Scores count for tiebreaker after all. So either judge all events like that so that it evens out and everyone gets lower scores, or none. Don’t randomly start with the third GP. That‘s what I don’t understand.
Nevertheless, let‘s move on:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4XDiyEIBTt/?igshid=bxk2rpacqwtd
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4W_rKlIibn/?igshid=1xjt9j5ufdhmi
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4XErdaoTMi/?igshid=133gujpp332qf
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4XAQuGodGn/?igshid=13cjjaj59golx
Here‘s a few videos from training. Alina had a clean practice again from what teamzagitova wrote. I‘m sure she‘ll be 100% clean today to prove that yesterday’s judging was a mistake. That will be her mindset, she has the experience. I‘m not sure about Aliona but I hope she isn‘t discouraged but rather hungry and does her best today, too.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
This whole discussion is so tiresome. We‘ve heard how much you disagree with the judging already. I understand, I‘m outraged too for a while when it comes to my favourites and what I perceive as unfair. (Admittedly, I’m still not happy with Aliona’s score) But for that long? I mean... don‘t we have different things to discuss? Alina‘s SP had an UR and an edge call, alright. If it was a false call (I‘m saying if here because I literally have no idea from the video I‘ve seen, that‘s like the worst angle ever) she will not get any calls at her next event. But considering that she has never even received !, e was probably way too harsh. But still. Her SP score is 74. Very low for her standards, of course. But her PCS were high as usually and given her usual scores on the 3Lz+3Lo, this program will most certainly score up to 80-82 at the next event anyway. That‘s not to bad, is it? And considering the outrage, I‘m pretty sure judging will be back to what it was before today. So, let‘s all wait for a 155-158 score for Alina.
Actually, thinking about it for a while, I don‘t even think the judging was so bad here. At least they weren’t biased and everyone got harsh calls. What I think the main problem is, is that the other events had more lenient judges which makes the difference in scores unfair. Scores count for tiebreaker after all. So either judge all events like that so that it evens out and everyone gets lower scores, or none. Don’t randomly start with the third GP. That‘s what I don’t understand.
Nevertheless, let‘s move on:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4XDiyEIBTt/?igshid=bxk2rpacqwtd
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4W_rKlIibn/?igshid=1xjt9j5ufdhmi
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4XErdaoTMi/?igshid=133gujpp332qf
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4XAQuGodGn/?igshid=13cjjaj59golx
Here‘s a few videos from training. Alina had a clean practice again from what teamzagitova wrote. I‘m sure she‘ll be 100% clean today to prove that yesterday’s judging was a mistake. That will be her mindset, she has the experience. I‘m not sure about Aliona but I hope she isn‘t discouraged but rather hungry and does her best today, too.
When nobody protests loudly, "mistakes" will soon become a norm. "When people have swallowed it one time, why not to do it again." Mr. Jeroen Prins sends his regards.
Not to mention that I wouldn't be happy if the public space would have been taken only by those who are already celebrating over the "bravery of the tech panel finally calling Alina's flutzes".
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
https://up.picr.de/37128378vd.gif
Flat edge would be the right call
The angle issue and why the judges makes mistakes, interesting read.
http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/archive/commentaries/ReplaySystem.htm
