2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[flanker]

People keep saying Eteri only had 1 senior but didn’t Polina and Daria leave after Zhenya? So there were other seniors besides Alina when Zhenya made her decision.

I don’t think it’s so crazy to assume that Zhenya could see Eteri might be focusing her attention elsewhere for the next Olympic cycle. Clearly she knew the 3A were coming and I think it’s reasonable to assume that she would not be a main focus of the coaching team in the future without being explicitly told to retire.

It has to be extremely hard to have trained and sacrificed the way she did leading up to the olympics and then deliver two of her best performances only to have a training mate beat her. I think it would be hard for most people to return to that situation to train. It’s a constant reminder of her silver medal and she’s training with the person who got gold. Doesn’t mean she’s necessarily mad at Alina or Eteri, but she knows she won’t be able to effectively train to her best ability in that situation. So logically her options were to retire or go elsewhere.

That's maybe the milestone of it. I think we've seen on many examples that this is not how Eteri's group works, there is nothing like one skater to be "a main focus of the coaching team".

 

[Sugar Coated]

moving on...
have you seen that Trusova got a poodle as a present from her parents?
I think first her dad promised to gift her one for winning Junior Worlds, he didn't though and then he promised a poodle for landing a 3A.
So now, they finally got her a poodle.
Am I getting my hopes up for thinking it's for the landed 3A? :scard8:

Her 2A was huge during her most recent FS. When I saw that I was like, “she’s landed the 3A and we’ll probably see it at GPF.”

 

[ancientpeas]

The fact that pairs are less popular generally doesn't mean they are not followed closely particularly in Russia. And T/M are still pair No. 1 and "shop window" of the russian pairs and figure skating as a whole, so I wouldn't consider it as a matter of popularity between singles/pairs. To behonest, Eteri's own daughter is training in the US now, even when with a former russian coach. The change of coaches itself is not such a deal in this case. I'm staying by how colormyworld240 explained it. I can't be formulated better.

But to be honest this has no purpose, I believe Eteri, Zhenya and ALina will be long retired and people will still discuss there and back "who is the bad guy here" (oh, no, this wasn't meant to the allusion on that awful song, now it's in my head again ).

I do agree what we will never probably know exactly what happened between them. There is an old expression: There are three versions of any story. Your side, my side and the truth.

I guess because students leave coaches all the time here I'm not "getting" why it is such a big deal to leave any coach. People leave coaches here just because they don't want to live in a certain part of the country or other small issues. It would only be the drama surrounding the leaving that would make it newsworthy here.

But I give the Russians and fans of Russians a lot of respect for really caring about their skaters and being invested in their success. Too few here are as passionate.

 

[kwanatic]

Quick thoughts after COR...

Sasha: Is she having issues with the 3Lz-3L? She switched it to the 3Lz-3T in the SP and then had the fall in the warm-up and in the performance on it... Not her best competition in terms of cleanliness but it's a testament to how far ahead of the field she is that she can fall twice and still win by a landslide. She controls her own fate every time she steps out there in the FS. Definitely the favorite to win the Final at this point...

Also can I say she's winning me over with her cuteness. The slip before the SP was so funny. The look on her face and her body language when she got up was so cute like, "Oops! What was that?!" She was still giggling at herself as she waited for her music to start which, again, was really cute. And then at the gala, while the rest of the skaters are taking pictures, she's over on the sidelines cleaning up the streamers. :rofl2: Somebody had to motion for her to stop cleaning and go get in pictures. She's adorable.

Evgenia: You could tell she was very happy to be skating at home and the love from the crowd was amazing. When they called her name during the 6-minute warm-up she actually waved at the crowd. You very rarely see skaters do that b/c they are so focused. It was a nice moment. I also thought it was very nice of her to quiet the crowd down after her SP. They'd started chanting loudly after her scores came up and she gently shushed them quiet so that Mariah could skate. Very classy lady!

As for the skating, like she said to Brian after her FS, "Finally!" I don't know what it was but she looked 100% relaxed and calm here. Her knees looked extra soft here--meaning there was a very easy rise and fall to her knees that made her jumps look very smooth and easy. It's a odd thing to notice but I definitely noticed it. She was ON in both programs. Beautiful skating, lovely performance and a great redemption from her first event.

 

[Sugar Coated]

That's maybe the milestone of it. I think we've seen on many examples that this is not how Eteri's group works, there is nothing like one skater to be "a main focus of the coaching team".

I think prior to the Olympic year, Zhenya had been her main focus, especially after Yulia left. She had a good 2-3 seasons where she likely had the majority of Eteri’s attention but that began to change as the team drew more talent. And maybe Zhenya wanted a more individualized approach that she would no longer be able to get considering Eteri’s upcoming talent.

I get that as a nation, Russia would want her to train with a Russian coach. But I’m not sure that would have been kinder to Eteri, to go to a domestic rival who you compete with for funding. In some ways, leaving the country may have been the more diplomatic approach as it implies she believed there was no one in Russia who could rival Eteri and she had to look elsewhere to a top male coach.

 

[flanker]

I guess because students leave coaches all the time here I'm not "getting" why it is such a big deal to leave any coach. People leave coaches here just because they don't want to live in a certain part of the country or other small issues. It would only be the drama surrounding the leaving that would make it newsworthy here.

But I give the Russians and fans of Russians a lot of respect for really caring about their skaters and being invested in their success. Too few here are as passionate.

Even when Eteri herself was left by other skaters it was never such drama (with Yulia maybe a little, but definitely not this magnitude). But this case was special since the very beginning, from the fans side, from the media side etc. And everybody will have his own version why it is so in this case.

I do agree what we will never probably know exactly what happened between them. There is an old expression: There are three versions of any story. Your side, my side and the truth.

We lawyers (at least in my country) say: "when two lawyers meet, three legal opinions arise."

 

[Mishaminion]

moving on...
have you seen that Trusova got a poodle as a present from her parents?
I think first her dad promised to gift her one for winning Junior Worlds, he didn't though and then he promised a poodle for landing a 3A.
So now, they finally got her a poodle.
Am I getting my hopes up for thinking it's for the landed 3A? :scard8:

But was it for landing a 3A in practice or just competition?

Her 2A in the SP was very big and better than I've ever seen it before, so maybe the 3A is in reach. We won't know until she decides she's ready to try it in competition, if she does.

 

[Scott512]

The fact that pairs are less popular generally doesn't mean they are not followed closely particularly in Russia. And T/M are still pair No. 1 and "shop window" of the russian pairs and figure skating as a whole, so I wouldn't consider it as a matter of popularity between singles/pairs. To behonest, Eteri's own daughter is training in the US now, even when with a former russian coach. The change of coaches itself is not such a deal in this case. I'm staying by how colormyworld240 explained it. I can't be formulated better.

But to be honest this has no purpose, I believe Eteri, Zhenya and ALina will be long retired and people will still discuss there and back "who is the bad guy here" (oh, no, this wasn't meant to be the allusion on that awful song, now it's in my head again ).

bad guy.

I didn't know Diana was training in the United States. I thought she was training in Russia with a Russian dance coach. Her mother probably wants her to broaden her horizons.

 

[flanker]

I think prior to the Olympic year, Zhenya had been her main focus, especially after Yulia left. She had a good 2-3 seasons where she likely had the majority of Eteri’s attention but that began to change as the team drew more talent. And maybe Zhenya wanted a more individualized approach that she would no longer be able to get considering Eteri’s upcoming talent.

I get that as a nation, Russia would want her to train with a Russian coach. But I’m not sure that would have been kinder to Eteri, to go to a domestic rival who you compete with for funding. In some ways, leaving the country may have been the more diplomatic approach as it implies she believed there was no one in Russia who could rival Eteri and she had to look elsewhere to a top male coach.

I don't think she had more attention than let's say Polina in those times. Maybe just during the olympic season itself the main focus was to gain the medal(s), so Zhenya and Alina, who were to be expected as a part of the olympic team, had more attention (incl. the things around Zhenya's injury), but not from the perspective "you are No. 1 in our team and the rest must accept they won't get the same attention". One of the main weapons of the team is constant competition, everyone is encouraged to do the best, to overcome or at least to tie with the others. I've read many lamentations recently about "Aliona not getting more attention" (probably from the people wishing her to depart the team), which again is not how it works.

There is a system that one particular skater is taken as a No. 1 and the leader, who has more focus etc., while the others are more like a reserve, and then there is the other system with everybody having the same chance. As everything it has some advantages and disadvantages. Getting to the beginning of what you said, that "Zhenya could see Eteri might be focusing her attention elsewhere", I don't think this would be how she saw it, she knew how the team works.

 

[flanker]

bad guy.

I didn't know Diana was training in the United States. I thought she was training in Russia with a Russian dance coach. Her mother probably wants her to broaden her horizons.

She (and Gleb) trains with Igor Shpilband in Novi, Michigan, since this summer. Eteri visited Michigan shortly before it, probably arranging the move

 

[LenaRadiFan]

Actually, that’s not quite accurate.
Final of the cup Russia was never meant to be the competition to replace the person who doesn’t do well at Euros.
Final of the cup Russia was never meant to be a qualifying championship for any events, it was meant to looks at the skaters who are in the russian reserve team, those like Gubanova and Konstantinova this year.
Liza was named the first substitute, in previous years it would mean she would go without having to skate another competition. Not last year though.

Zagorski/Gurreiro didn’t make it to the team, although their conditions were pretty much identical to Medvedeva: they won FCR while Sinitsina/Kasalapov placed 4th at Euros.
Lazukin also won FCR, and wasn’t named to the team even when Kolyada and Kovtun failed.
How so?
So yeah, it is definitely not something „normal“ to be done, and it was a somewhat questionable decision from the federation.

I agree, it was definitely an exception made by rusfed even when you just compare the olympic year, where Lena bombed nationals, but had a quite good season(and arguably had a better one than Masha) didn't get a second chance. I do believe though this is more somezhing to criticize rusfed for and not any of the skaters involved

 

[ancientpeas]

Even when Eteri herself was left by other skaters it was never such drama (with Yulia maybe a little, but definitely not this magnitude). But this case was special since the very beginning, from the fans side, from the media side etc. And everybody will have his own version why it is so in this case.



We lawyers (at least in my country) say: "when two lawyers meet, three legal opinions arise."

:thumbsup: I like that expression.

I think with the Eteri/Evgenia break up it was just so dramatic. People could actually see it happening in real time. Kind of like the Beatles break up but with less great music. I do think people have added drama here that may or may not have actually existed. People say things when they are upset. Do I think someone said something they probably should not have or even regret? Yes I do. Do I think they can mend things? Yes I do. I hope they do. When Evgenia looks back at her career Eteri has been a huge part of it and it will diminish her joy over here many accomplishments if there is still bad blood there.

 

[Scott512]

People keep saying Eteri only had 1 senior but didn’t Polina and Daria leave after Zhenya? So there were other seniors besides Alina when Zhenya made her decision.

I don’t think it’s so crazy to assume that Zhenya could see Eteri might be focusing her attention elsewhere for the next Olympic cycle. Clearly she knew the 3A were coming and I think it’s reasonable to assume that she would not be a main focus of the coaching team in the future without being explicitly told to retire.

It has to be extremely hard to have trained and sacrificed the way she did leading up to the olympics and then deliver two of her best performances only to have a training mate beat her. I think it would be hard for most people to return to that situation to train. It’s a constant reminder of her silver medal and she’s training with the person who got gold. Doesn’t mean she’s necessarily mad at Alina or Eteri, but she knows she won’t be able to effectively train to her best ability in that situation. So logically her options were to retire or go elsewhere.

Very well said sugar. It makes sense to me. It could have been a difficult situation for a Zhenya goring back to. But I also feel it would have worked out because her level of performances for those three years were so damn high including the Olympics. Right after the Olympics Zhenya went public with saying she was going to stay with eteri and she meant that at that time. Then other things came into play some of the things you mentioned Sugar and that changed a lot of things and the rest is history.

 

[[email protected]]

The state of Russian senior ladies before the Rusnats

1. Alexandra Trusova is one and only
2. Alena Kostornaya has to land triple axels in Japan, then she will be also above the clouds.

Those two skaters should be gold and silver at Rusnats. Injuries aside it will be the most outrageous thing if they are not in the team based both on the body of work and their scores this season.

3. - 5. Anna Scherbakova
3. - 5. Alina Zagitova
3. - 5. Evgenija Medvedeva

Here lies the key drama of the season. One out of three will be in the worlds team. If all three are clean Evgenija is surely the weakest link: Anna's quads will outweigh her lack of pcs, and Alina's TES is higher with similar pcs. However, nerves will be strained to the limit - I would argue that Rusnats this time will be the strongest competition in the history of this event. GPF with Rika could rival it. However, there are just 6 skaters there with no Zhenya and Liza.

6. Liza Tuktamysheva

International panels made a statement that she cannot expect the same scores that she received last season while #3 - 5 are still in the game. I am sure that she will be held domestically as well in order to not make a difficult choice a total nightmare. One big situation will be if she lands 3 triple axels and the rest of her stuff and 4 out of 5 above stated skaters have really bad days (like all senior ladies had at last Rusnats). If Liza wins silver that will be truly a twist in this year drama.

Everybody else

Ksenia Tsibinova is on the rise. It is interesting how she will perform vs. other more familiar names and another Ksenia: Sinitsina

Gubanova, Tarakanova, Sakhanovich, Samodurova - it is always interesting to watch them skate. May be some of them or even all of them will shine. It will change little team wise but it may make a splash with long lasting effects.

Sotskova, Konstantinova - a farewell? Or some miracle will happen?

 

[Mathman]

The state of Russian senior ladies before the Rusnats.

Thanks for the analysis.

Don't you think that Shcherbakova can rise to the level of the top two? Looking past this year, I think the future belongs to whomever can bring the quads and a triple Axel.

 

[ancientpeas]

I agree with Sam's power rankings. Alena is my favourite but it is hard not to give Alexandra the edge here.

All and all I'm actually probably going to be really sad after Russian Nationals. Either way 3 of these ladies who are totally deserving of going to Worlds will not be going. If I had to go with my gut I would say:
Alexandra, Alina and Alena are the world team. Maybe Russia will do something different and send the third place finishers to Europeans and let them fight it out there for the last spot. If Europeans had the prestige of 4CC they could totally do that but Europeans is much more important so I'm sure whoever wins Russian Nationals will want to go to Europeans.

Stanislava has been heartbreaking this season. Such a beautiful skater and she is so sad in the kiss and cry. I hope she has a great nationals and ends her season on a happy note.

 

[Fluture]

I agree, it was definitely an exception made by rusfed even when you just compare the olympic year, where Lena bombed nationals, but had a quite good season(and arguably had a better one than Masha) didn't get a second chance. I do believe though this is more somezhing to criticize rusfed for and not any of the skaters involved

I might be wrong here but didn‘t Masha make the GPF in the Olympic season and medal there?

 

[SkateSkates]

Shcherbakova seems to perform her best just when people start counting her out. I wouldn’t be surprised if she wins nationals again even if Sasha and Aliona beat her at the finals. Just a feeling I have

Then again, I had somehow convinced myself that Sasha was going to try a quad flip this weekend, which didn’t happen, so who knows.

 

[DenissVFan]

I might be wrong here but didn‘t Masha make the GPF in the Olympic season and medal there?

Maria got the silver medal at the 2017 GPF.

 

[flanker]

Shcherbakova seems to perform her best just when people start counting her out. I wouldn’t be surprised if she wins nationals again even if Sasha and Aliona beat her at the finals. Just a feeling I have

Then again, I had somehow convinced myself that Sasha was going to try a quad flip this weekend, which didn’t happen, so who knows.

I quite agree, it is what makes her similar to Alina, BTW

Still, when people make those standings, do not forget one thing, Anna's SB is not composed of her two best marks for her two programs, so she still has a significant room to grow.