2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 758 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

But there's a clear difference in quality between the 4A and Sofia. Elizaveta has stand-out jumps, she might not have much in the way of transitions in/out of them but she has stand-out jumps; outside of her 'sass' what stand-out element does Sofia have?

Consistency.

You can count the number of times Sofia's fallen in major competition on two hands.

When other skaters are falling, often more than once in a competition, I think that should mean something.

After all isn't the ability not to fall an essential skating skill? It doesn't take much effort to fall.
 
Consistency.

You can count the number of times Sofia's fallen in major competition on two hands.

When other skaters are falling, often more than once in a competition, I think that should mean something.

After all isn't the ability not to fall an essential skating skill? It doesn't take much effort to fall.


Sofia's consistency is amazing (more so last year than this year), but Kostornaya and Trusova have similar consistency rates on non quad/triple axel jumps. I believe Kostornaya has made two major errors on non axel triples in her international career, which is definitely at least equal to Sofia because of her errors earlier this year. In fact, you can count the number of times Kostornaya has fallen in major competition on two fingers, And that's even including all her triple axel attempts. Trusova is also extremely consistent on non-quad elements, with only a couple errors on the difficult lutz-loop internationally (I think the fall at Rostelecom was her first international fall on a triple IIRC). And I don't think you can really compare quad falls to triple falls. So Sofia's consistency is not really enough to make her stand out among these girls. Even Shcherbakova has only had a couple non-quad falls internationally...

But anyways, Sofia does have consistency, but she is rewarded for that consistency by not receiving the point deductions that come with falls. The point was about the quality of the elements that she does do. She is a great skater no doubt, but she just doesn't have an area among jumps, spins, and skating skills that stands out among the rest of the Russians. And this isn't because she is bad, but because the others are just so other-worldly good. She has some charisma, but so do most of the other top Russians, and the ones who don't have as much have other extreme qualities to make up for it. And so the GOE and PCS reflect this, which is why some think she isn't really being underscored as much as some say she is. There isn't really much you can say to justify high GOE on jumps or spins. Maybe she can get high performance PCS, but SS are average and transitions are lacking. Now, I'm not going to give an personal opinion on whether she was underscored because I'd have to look in detail at each GOE, but in general, she doesn't get many of those GOE bullets.
 
But anyways, Sofia does have consistency, but she is rewarded for that consistency by not receiving the point deductions that come with falls. The point was about the quality of the elements that she does do. She is a great skater no doubt, but she just doesn't have an area among jumps, spins, and skating skills that stands out among the rest of the Russians. And this isn't because she is bad, but because the others are just so other-worldly good. She has some charisma, but so do most of the other top Russians, and the ones who don't have as much have other extreme qualities to make up for it. And so the GOE and PCS reflect this, which is why some think she isn't really being underscored as much as some say she is. There isn't really much you can say to justify high GOE on jumps or spins. Maybe she can get high performance PCS, but SS are average and transitions are lacking. Now, I'm not going to give an personal opinion on whether she was underscored because I'd have to look in detail at each GOE, but in general, she doesn't get many of those GOE bullets.

But again I'm not saying Sofia should win or even medal, but to end up in 6th behind skaters who fell (and not while doing quads) makes no sense. A small, underrotated jump is still better than a fall, at least in my opinion...I guess that's not the ISU's opinion, so I guess I have to suck it up. :disapp:
 
A small, underrotated jump is still better than a fall, at least in my opinion...

Sure. But there are 7 jump passes. And when one ends in fall and 6 other are great (+3 GOE and more), the simple calculation shows that this is better than 7 passes with +1 GOE.
I love Sophia but I'm afraid she lost a sparkle she got in previous seasons. Not only Sophia - all Russian ladies seems to be overwhelmed by a pressure the 3A turning senior created. All of them (3A excluding, certainly) have been doing (or did at least once) worse this season. I don't know I'm brave enough to watch Nationals this year...
 
I disagree with this. While Liza gets a lot of criticism for her choreography, ss, speed, and spins, she has some of the best jumps of all the ladies. Her 3Lz and 3A are massive with very good technique, and her other jumps are quite large as well. On the other hand, Sofia's jumps are just a pre-rotated as everyone else's with half (or less than half) the height. You're comparing one of the best jumpers with one of the worse. I think Liza was lowballed on the GOE for some of her jumps, but Sofia's GOEs were what she deserved. Her jumps were already tiny last season, now they're on the verge of being smaller than Satoko's. And it's not like she's a great spinner or has great SS either. I wouldn't say she is particularly strong in any aspect (relatively) of FS. Unfortunately all her elements are some of the lowest quality of the Russian ladies, so she can't compete with them.

Exactly! Plus, I don't find that Sofia is performing nearly as well/outwardly as she did last year, which is also hurting her PCS scores.
 
Sure. But there are 7 jump passes. And when one ends in fall and 6 other are great (+3 GOE and more), the simple calculation shows that this is better than 7 passes with +1 GOE.
I love Sophia but I'm afraid she lost a sparkle she got in previous seasons. Not only Sophia - all Russian ladies seems to be overwhelmed by a pressure the 3A turning senior created. All of them (3A excluding, certainly) have been doing (or did at least once) worse this season. I don't know I'm brave enough to watch Nationals this year...
See the biathlon. Some good runner may want to shoot as fast as possible, compensating the possible misses with the faster run.
 
See the biathlon. Some good runner may want to shoot as fast as possible, compensating the possible misses with the faster run.

This suggests that the scoring system wants skaters to perform jumps they can "almost" do, a planned fall if you will.

I mean let's face it, far more skaters can do the take off, the rotations, but not land the jump. So...Liza, Zhenya Med and the rest might as well start going for quads, even if they fall flat on their butts they'll be in a better position then if they didn't. Unless of course, they injure themselves doing it. Nothing like a skater smashing into the boards to add some thrill to the competition, I suppose. :palmf:
 
This suggests that the scoring system wants skaters to perform jumps they can "almost" do, a planned fall if you will.

I mean let's face it, far more skaters can do the take off, the rotations, but not land the jump. So...Liza, Zhenya Med and the rest might as well start going for quads, even if they fall flat on their butts they'll be in a better position then if they didn't. Unless of course, they injure themselves doing it. Nothing like a skater smashing into the boards to add some thrill to the competition, I suppose. :palmf:

What? No, it’s not like that at all.
It used to be like that in -3/+3 system, now it’s actually the opposite. Falling from a rotated quad is worse point-wise than landing even a mediocre triple.
I‘m not sure what user above specifically meant with biathlon comparisons, but definitely not that the falling from quads is beneficial.
 
This suggests that the scoring system wants skaters to perform jumps they can "almost" do, a planned fall if you will.

I mean let's face it, far more skaters can do the take off, the rotations, but not land the jump. So...Liza, Zhenya Med and the rest might as well start going for quads, even if they fall flat on their butts they'll be in a better position then if they didn't. Unless of course, they injure themselves doing it. Nothing like a skater smashing into the boards to add some thrill to the competition, I suppose. :palmf:
Not what I want, rather what we have.

Judges can shorten or inflate PCS as much as they want. But they cannot give -5 GOE for properly done jumps.
Thus one prefer to work more with upper triples and quads. Less relating to the mood of the Board.

In biathlon the running is mostly your own deal. But the shooting includes such issues like the wind.
 
What? No, it’s not like that at all.
It used to be like that in -3/+3 system, now it’s actually the opposite. Falling from a rotated quad is worse point-wise than landing even a mediocre triple.
I‘m not sure what user above specifically meant with biathlon comparisons, but definitely not that the falling from quads is beneficial.

It doesn't seem that way to me. But then I can't figure out how GOE even works...Surely Liza routinely hits 2 bullet points on her jumps, but she rarely, if ever gets +2.

As it stands it seems that some skaters are forever doomed to get low GOE. Liza even added a difficult transition into her Lutz for the SP and for her troubles one judge gave her a big fat 0 GOE and the most of the others gave her 1. The exact same points she gets for one without a transition, so why bother adding one? If anything it's a disincentive, because if she falls - which is more likely with the transition she'll lose a whole load of points.

If I was her I wouldn't bother trying to add transitions either, they don't get her anything and falling hurts.
 
Whining is not doing his skaters any favors. Sofia stood out last season because she was the most consistent Russian lady last season. Medvedeva was recovering from injury and coaching transition. Zagitova was struggling, and while she was managing to win— a lot was with help from the judges. Tuktamysheva got sick. Certainly he knows this.
This season is a different game. Nobody is beating Trusova or Alena when they skate clean. Anna Alina Medvedeva and Tuktamysheva are all fighting for bronze.
 
The ice coverage killed me! What an Empress she is!

I really really hope she can bring it to competition!

And I'll be watching the GOE carefully...the judges better give the Empress the respect she deserves or I'm gonna start a riot :p
 
Liza got a quad! I can’t believe it!
Just in her recent interview she was so uncertain about even trying it again!
Wow, nationals are going to be very interesting!
 
This season is so exciting! Every day we wake up and get news of skaters having new jumps. Everything becomes more unpredictable. I’m so happy for Liza!!!
 
She is wonderful.

Now, judges will not be able to put Liza under the skaters of the 20th century.

Mishin is true to himself. 3A and Quads. Drive and Power. And no princesses and snot.

May God grant her health.
 
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