2019-20 U.S. Men's Figure Skating | Page 26 | Golden Skate

2019-20 U.S. Men's Figure Skating

I did expected a lot more shake ups to happen this year with Tomoki winning pewter last year and winning JWC, Camden having an amazing SP at Skate Canada and just missing the podium, Alex doing so well at his first CS also just missing the podium and others coming up in the ranks. Jason hasn't had a perfect season at all, and doesn't really seem any closer to uping his technical game either and Vincent isn't even here and I see no reason to doubt they'll be on the world team along with Nathan. Though maybe everyone will have stronger second half of the season.

To me the only question is who will go to 4CC since Nathan won't most likely.

US women on the other hand are really exciting to watch even with my girl Ting out.
 
US men didn't even medal on the JGP this year. When was the last time that happened?

Just answering my own question. From what I could find this had never happened before this season. This is the first time that a US man did not medal on the JGP dating back to 1997.
 
Well, I continue to find the men exciting, but of course I am not one to care about results when it comes to excitement.:biggrin:
It is interesting to me that the season has not really produced changes or resolutions. Then again, I was not one of those, even though I followed the junior men, who thought that there would be a great shuffle at the “top”. It is true that Jason is still struggling with the quad. But just because the younger skaters may have quads, does not mean that they have the remaining technical arsenal that Jason has. Or that they have the presentation or artistry that Jason has. Since they cannot equal him on his other technical skills, merely having additional jumps was not going to bring them into a place where they challenged for a podium position. That said, ice is slippery and who knows what will happen at Nats.:confused2: of course, I would love to see a podium with Jason, Andrew T., and Alex K. If that happens I am buying a lottery ticket the next day. :laugh:

As for general appeal to that great mythical casual fan, anyone else’s guess is as good as mine. I do not think that success or medals means as much for the popularity of the men, otherwise the men would be the most popular discipline. It’s not just medals, it’s not just jumps, it’s not just spins, it’s not just artistry.

And if I knew what it was I would have everyone loving the men’s discipline as much as I do. :)
 
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I get excited for US men later on, because for some reason it seems to me that some (most?) US men don't really peak until later in the season. It does seem like an unpredictable season for most of them so far. I wonder if Vincent Zhou will compete at Nationals. And I know he'll not medal but I always enjoy Jimmy Ma.
 
RE: Vincent and school... I think there was a lot more media attention paid to Nathan because he's the world champ and everyone doubted that school and skating could work. Now that Nathan has proven that it can work, the media has pretty much moved on. Karen did get a couple of other articles, but she's also competing on the GP. Had Vincent kept his GP assignments, we'd probably see a lot more coverage on it, particularly if he managed high placements (and given how things have gone, I lament that he didn't try).

I was thinking the other day about that I think Vincent gets some unfair criticism for going to school. I read on the forums a lot that he is "copying" Nathan.

Well, I think it is just the opposite. When Vincent went to college, he decided NOT to skate competitively during the Freshman Fall semester. And that is the exact opposite of what Nathan decided to do.

I'm not sure why people who don't know the mind of either skater (and I am most definitely NOT saying you fall into the category) assign motives to their decisions.

Two guy, both obviously very bright, decide to enter college when "normal" people do. That really shouldn't be shocking. One decided to skate competitively during the academic semester and one didn't. To me, that sounds as though they each made an independent decision on the best move for themselves personally.

I enjoy both of them for the most part, and I'm hoping for good outcomes.
 
I was thinking the other day about that I think Vincent gets some unfair criticism for going to school. I read on the forums a lot that he is "copying" Nathan.

Well, I think it is just the opposite. When Vincent went to college, he decided NOT to skate competitively during the Freshman Fall semester. And that is the exact opposite of what Nathan decided to do.

Not true. Vincent did enter college with plans of competing throughout his first semester, in one interview he even talked about doing approx. 5 competitions, as far as I recall.
Only when he noticed that he wouldn't be able to do both at a satsifying level (?), did he withdraw. Hence why his pulling out of the GP was pretty short-term and raised some brows.
I assume he wasn't willing to sacrifice his grades and/or time living the college experience for what would have possibly been mediocre, for his standards, outings at the GP and probably more detrimental to his reputation than not competing at all.

I'm obviously not saying this somehow, automatically, equals copying Nathan, but it is not true that Vincent did not initially plan on combining both skating and full-time school.

Also, speaking of 'copying' has such a negative connotation, and it's usually found in the more nasty comments. I think I've seen just as many comments of people simply stating that Karen and Vincent were possibly encouraged or reassured by Nathan's experience. Of course we can't know this for sure, maybe they would've attempted full-time college + elite skating either way, but I think it's natural for people to make those assumptions and not necessarily mean-spirited.

But I also think it is naive to think, that there is no pressure or expectation at all on these young people from the same skating circles, 'to deliver' in certain areas of their lifes and how they compare to the others. Be it in their own (I'm sure very competitive) minds or their environment/family. And I'm sure this plays a role in their motives or choices.

You are right though, in that there is in fact a difference between Nathan's and Vincent's approach to college.

Vincent has stated repeatedly that he's just planning on doing this one semester to reserve a spot at Brown in the future (after the next Olympics), and he has no intentions (at least he didn't until now) of juggling both skating and college long term. To put it bluntly, it sounds like that one semester is more of a necessity and experiencing a normal college life is not currently a priority or a focus of his. Not to diminish his college experience, I'm sure it's still exciting and a nice change from the same old rut, a chance to leave his old environment for a bit, but I don't think he would have done it if it wasn't the safest choice for his future plans.

With Nathan it usually sounds more like he's craving this normal life of a young adult and he needs college as an escape from skating. Just skating doesn't seem fulfilling enough for him, I think especially socially and in terms of perspectives on life. And he was always determined to make it work for as long as it's feasible for him.

Again, not saying Vincent is somehow narrow-minded and easily pleased because he appears to be satisfied with 'just being a skater' for now. From what we see of them in interviews, they just seem to have very different personalities and Vincent strikes me as someone who's more introversive and self-sufficient.
 
Just answering my own question. From what I could find this had never happened before this season. This is the first time that a US man did not medal on the JGP dating back to 1997.

Definitely a rebuilding year for the Juniors, after Tomoki, Camden, and Alexei went Senior. The Junior Worlds team will be interesting--besides Torgashev, it's wide open. My vote would be for Maxim Naumov.
 
Not true. Vincent did enter college with plans of competing throughout his first semester, in one interview he even talked about doing approx. 5 competitions, as far as I recall.
Only when he noticed that he wouldn't be able to do both at a satsifying level (?), did he withdraw. Hence why his pulling out of the GP was pretty short-term and raised some

You are right though, in that there is in fact a difference between Nathan's and Vincent's approach to college.

With Nathan it usually sounds more like he's craving this normal life of a young adult and he needs college as an escape from skating. Just skating doesn't seem fulfilling enough for him, I think especially socially and in terms of perspectives on life. And he was always determined to make it work for as long as it's feasible for him.

Not to comment on their motives. Just remembered some articles about school and competitions.

Vincent did plan to compete while going to school, he was planning more competitions than what Nathan did the first semester. Nathan didn’t do any CS event, he didn’t even plan to go 4CC.
https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019/07/02/vincent-zhou-brown/

“I will likely do a senior B [lower-level event] before my Grand Prix, and maybe a summer international soon,” he said. “Back-to-back Grand Prixs are more than I could have asked for, since separate ones would not mix well with academic catch-up and jetlag. It’s like combining errands into one trip.”

And he did go to USIC as planned. Also Madi and Evan voiced similar sentiment that back to back GP was easier to them in terms of traveling and schedules.

Vincent talked in little bit details about his plans to get how many weeks off from school for competitions in this Ice Time interview, with plans that Tammy and Hamada flying to Brown to help him when schedule permitted. Tammy confirmed that in one of her interviews, and both Tammy and Hamada did go to Boston area to help him in the beginning of this semester, which I posted some of the tweets from his Japanese fan account

Ice Time interview in the beginning of July
https://soundcloud.com/user-983930015/no-26-vincent-zhou


To me their competition approach is different. Vincent wanted to present the best of him. Nathan actually for SkAm and worlds, went with lower expectations of himself. He had only 1 quad in SP and 3 in the free, which prompted fs fans to guess why he is doing such a weak layout. But I think the lowered expectations helped him in the long run, forcing him to focus on the programs rather than jumps.

He went to WTT and JO without Raf, even for worlds, he arrived Japan relatively late compared to other skaters, and practicing without Raf the first day. IMHO, he is probably a little bit more laid back, which also helped competition nerve to some extent.

I think all three of them, as freshman in college and being home schooled for long time, to some extent underestimated, understandably, how demanding school could be initially. It is already very hard to adjust to school life alone, both Nathan and Karen got sick around SkAm, I am not sure if Vincent was lucky enough to avoid the freshman/sophomore plague. Throw in training without coaches and managing competition on top of stressful adjustments to college life is just too much. It is wise to make changes to do what they think best for them.

We should feel happy all three of them healthy and fit. The rest would come along.
 
Definitely a rebuilding year for the Juniors, after Tomoki, Camden, and Alexei went Senior. The Junior Worlds team will be interesting--besides Torgashev, it's wide open. My vote would be for Maxim Naumov.

I never panic when it comes to Juniors. Remember 2013...….Joshua, Jason, and Shotaro swept the podium at Junior Worlds and Jason is the only one still skating competitively. I think we'll be fine. There's always an exciting late bloomer.
 
I was thinking the other day about that I think Vincent gets some unfair criticism for going to school. I read on the forums a lot that he is "copying" Nathan.

Well, I think it is just the opposite. When Vincent went to college, he decided NOT to skate competitively during the Freshman Fall semester. And that is the exact opposite of what Nathan decided to do.

I'm not sure why people who don't know the mind of either skater (and I am most definitely NOT saying you fall into the category) assign motives to their decisions.

Two guy, both obviously very bright, decide to enter college when "normal" people do. That really shouldn't be shocking. One decided to skate competitively during the academic semester and one didn't. To me, that sounds as though they each made an independent decision on the best move for themselves personally.

I enjoy both of them for the most part, and I'm hoping for good outcomes.

For the record, I never said that Vincent was copying Nathan. My comment was in response to an earlier post regarding why there was not more media coverage on Vincent's schooling. I've seen such comments on other forums like FSU (where I also lurk) and I don't agree with them. It might be fair to say that Nathan may have inspired Vincent to try an Ivy school, long-distance coaching, and skating at the same time, but that is not the same as copying. (I can't remember where but there was an article soon after the Worlds where Vincent was asked about college and he mentioned at that time that he was considering going to college in Colorado "and not do anything too crazy." So clearly his plans changed since then).

My "lament" was that given how things on the GP have gone this season I really think that Vincent had a real shot of scoring some GP medals and qualifying for the GPF, even if those skates weren't his best. As others have said, Vincent was very obviously planning to compete on the GP (he'd already done US Classic and Japan Open) and just decided at the last minute not to. I completely respect his decision and I find it admirable that he chose to prioritize school over medals. Skating is transient, school is forever.

Nathan is Nathan, Vincent is Vincent, and I think the US is lucky to have them both.
 
Definitely a rebuilding year for the Juniors, after Tomoki, Camden, and Alexei went Senior. The Junior Worlds team will be interesting--besides Torgashev, it's wide open. My vote would be for Maxim Naumov.

How many spots for Junior Worlds does the US have? Even if it's only two i can't see anyone besides Torgashev and Ilia Malinin. He's the future of US Junior men and he needs the experience.
 
How many spots for Junior Worlds does the US have? Even if it's only two i can't see anyone besides Torgashev and Ilia Malinin. He's the future of US Junior men and he needs the experience.

The US has 3 spots for Junior Worlds.
 
After Andrew the two remaining JWC spots will probably come down to Malinin, Dunk, and Naumov.
 
I say let them all four of them fight it out. None of them earned the three berths. All of them could use the experience. None of them have a track record under the level of pressure they will face at Junior Worlds. They are all going to have to develop their technical difficulty and/or consistency to be competitive. Odds are very high the third spot will be lost and no guarantees for the second. So go to Nationals, and prove you are ready to skate well under pressure. Show up in shape and ready for the selection camp. Then learn from the experience at Junior Worlds if you get the opportunity, and come back next season having grown from it.
 
For the record, I never said that Vincent was copying Nathan. My comment was in response to an earlier post regarding why there was not more media coverage on Vincent's schooling. I've seen such comments on other forums like FSU (where I also lurk) and I don't agree with them. It might be fair to say that Nathan may have inspired Vincent to try an Ivy school, long-distance coaching, and skating at the same time, but that is not the same as copying. (I can't remember where but there was an article soon after the Worlds where Vincent was asked about college and he mentioned at that time that he was considering going to college in Colorado "and not do anything too crazy." So clearly his plans changed since then).

My "lament" was that given how things on the GP have gone this season I really think that Vincent had a real shot of scoring some GP medals and qualifying for the GPF, even if those skates weren't his best. As others have said, Vincent was very obviously planning to compete on the GP (he'd already done US Classic and Japan Open) and just decided at the last minute not to. I completely respect his decision and I find it admirable that he chose to prioritize school over medals. Skating is transient, school is forever.

Nathan is Nathan, Vincent is Vincent, and I think the US is lucky to have them both.

Oh, I know that. That's why my post included the phrase "(and I am most definitely NOT saying you fall into the category)"

In other words, your post said something relevant that reminded me of something else...
 
After Andrew the two remaining JWC spots will probably come down to Malinin, Dunk, and Naumov.

I never really thought I'd care who made the Junior World Team, but I'm rooting for Malinin. Something about that kid I can't quite put my finger on, but he's got star potential.
 
Not true. Vincent did enter college with plans of competing throughout his first semester, in one interview he even talked about doing approx. 5 competitions, as far as I recall.
Only when he noticed that he wouldn't be able to do both at a satsifying level (?), did he withdraw. Hence why his pulling out of the GP was pretty short-term and raised some brows.
I assume he wasn't willing to sacrifice his grades and/or time living the college experience for what would have possibly been mediocre, for his standards, outings at the GP and probably more detrimental to his reputation than not competing at all.

I'm obviously not saying this somehow, automatically, equals copying Nathan, but it is not true that Vincent did not initially plan on combining both skating and full-time school.

Also, speaking of 'copying' has such a negative connotation, and it's usually found in the more nasty comments. I think I've seen just as many comments of people simply stating that Karen and Vincent were possibly encouraged or reassured by Nathan's experience. Of course we can't know this for sure, maybe they would've attempted full-time college + elite skating either way, but I think it's natural for people to make those assumptions and not necessarily mean-spirited.

But I also think it is naive to think, that there is no pressure or expectation at all on these young people from the same skating circles, 'to deliver' in certain areas of their lifes and how they compare to the others. Be it in their own (I'm sure very competitive) minds or their environment/family. And I'm sure this plays a role in their motives or choices.

You are right though, in that there is in fact a difference between Nathan's and Vincent's approach to college.

Vincent has stated repeatedly that he's just planning on doing this one semester to reserve a spot at Brown in the future (after the next Olympics), and he has no intentions (at least he didn't until now) of juggling both skating and college long term. To put it bluntly, it sounds like that one semester is more of a necessity and experiencing a normal college life is not currently a priority or a focus of his. Not to diminish his college experience, I'm sure it's still exciting and a nice change from the same old rut, a chance to leave his old environment for a bit, but I don't think he would have done it if it wasn't the safest choice for his future plans.

With Nathan it usually sounds more like he's craving this normal life of a young adult and he needs college as an escape from skating. Just skating doesn't seem fulfilling enough for him, I think especially socially and in terms of perspectives on life. And he was always determined to make it work for as long as it's feasible for him.

Again, not saying Vincent is somehow narrow-minded and easily pleased because he appears to be satisfied with 'just being a skater' for now. From what we see of them in interviews, they just seem to have very different personalities and Vincent strikes me as someone who's more introversive and self-sufficient.

I admire almost envious or jealous of people like Nathan nice, smart, athletic and artistic and can balance things and I can't even do one thing adequately. I know they work hard I do not begrudge that. Good for them and more power to them. I have no excuse for my failure in life or lack of success compared to the rest of the world. But I do think sometimes there are a lot of things that go into champion skaters including genetics, luck, your family, friends, support team and just who you are. And really, when you think about it, anyone who skates at this level deserves kudos. Think about it - the "weakest" skater now compared to Dick Button's day - the speed, the difficulty, the spins, the jumps. Quite an accomplishment. As much as we criticize or say "how weak" ie Jason Brown is technically witn an inconsistent triple axel and almost or currently non existent quad - he is quite an amazing skater. AT the end of the day an Olympic gold medal goes to only one skater and who knows whether it will lead to greater opportunities REgardless the value of a skater//person should not be on success on the ice. It sounds hypocritical because we talk about wiinning gold and GOAT etc. It is so easy to compare Vincent and Nathan but they aren't the same person. I will be curious to see how Vincent does come Nats. And I wouldn't count out for skeptics about Jimmy Ma. ice is slippery. Alex, Tog, Brown, Camden Zhou, Ma and others all are capable of joining Nathan at worlds.
 
After Andrew the two remaining JWC spots will probably come down to Malinin, Dunk, and Naumov.

I really hope that Dinh Tran also will be in the mix and will be invited to the selection camp. :pray:


... And I know he'll not medal but I always enjoy Jimmy Ma.

:agree: Thanks for mentioning Jimmy. :luv17:


...
RE: Goku Endo
I confess I know nothing about him but is it bad that I want him to do well mainly so he can one day get sent to Japan and the fans can throw him dragonball stuffies? (Because that would be so awesome...and the Japanese fans would love him there.)

If you would like to get a taste of Goku Endo's skating, below is the link to Junior Men's FS at 2019 U.S. Challenge Skate (Sep 22).
Goku starts at approx. 37:00.


(I don't have an NBC pass, so I have not seen his programs from sectionals.)

My guess(?) would be that Goku is U.S.-born, but he is fluent in Japanese, so it would be great for Japanese fans to have a chance to get to know him. :agree:
I don't think it's bad ;) to want any skater to get assigned to an event in Japan. Pretty much everyone seems to love to compete there, and to enjoy the culture, food, etc. :hap93:

(LOL, I myself am completely ignorant re anime :hopelessness:, but I bet that Goku would have special appreciation for dragonball stuffies. :laugh: :cool:)
 
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