Yu-Na Kim: Are all her problems at bay?

[satorare]

Mathman says "stop bashing" so I use a very soft language.

I can imagine why the Koreans are frustrated.
"Doing three 2A's" is a symbol of technical stagnations. As someone pointed out earlier, Kim had no technical progress in past two seasons.
She may have nerves to do three SOLO 2A's at SENIOR GPF but no gut to try new triples. If I was a Korean, I'll be frastrated by her conservative and short-sighted (prize money oriented) attitudes.
Because the base-value of 2A was increased, I bet may ten wons on her continued three 2A's "conservative" programs.

 

[Zuranthium]

I also don't see anything in the rules that would prevent a three jump sequence. Of course if you did 2A+2A+2A SEQ you would only get 80% of base.

There's nothing against a 3-jump sequence but you now must have actual steps/non-listed jumps between all of the jumps or it's not a sequence. It's still possible but not worth the difficulty to ever try and put that sequence in a program.

I think it's a horrible rule. People get totally killed if they fall out of the first jump of their combination. That rule was already in place for the SP, which I never liked...you're telling skaters NOT to have fight and to simply give up on the second jump if they mess up on the first. Skaters also get HAMMERED now if the landing on the first jump of their combination has a double three-turn coming out of it....if they do another jump off that landing it's looked at as another jumping pass altogether. SO stupid.

~Z

 

[Kypma]

I think it's a horrible rule. People get totally killed if they fall out of the first jump of their combination. That rule was already in place for the SP, which I never liked...you're telling skaters NOT to have fight and to simply give up on the second jump if they mess up on the first. Skaters also get HAMMERED now if the landing on the first jump of their combination has a double three-turn coming out of it....if they do another jump off that landing it's looked at as another jumping pass altogether. SO stupid.

~Z

Wow... I wasn't aware of that. I think, though, in the Canadian National Championships, they allow the double 3-turn, because Jessica Dubé (yes, the pair skater with Bryce Davison) did one in her short program and she got a -1.00 GOE but nothing further, I believe. They counted the whole combination, not 2 seperate jumps... although, in pairs, they'll have to work up a new sequence or combination, because their old one no longer works.

Kypma

(PS Wow... we're kind of getting far from the original subject... well my thought on Yu-Na's problems is that I think she is taking the right steps to fix them but I don't know how long her body will withstand the impact of figure skating...)

 

[Zuranthium]

"Doing three 2A's" is a symbol of technical stagnations.

Uhhh, no it's not??? You're simply wrong and should learn the mathematics of CoP. Three 2A's would only be bad if a skater had just Toeloop and Salchow in their repertoire. That would indeed be a very Junior program. But that's HARDLY the case with Yu-Na. She does 6 Triples and 2 of them are pure Lutzes.

As someone pointed out earlier, Kim had no technical progress in past two seasons.

Yes she has. Her Axel jump has gotten stronger. In any case, at some point you're going to reach the ceiling of your realistic jumping abilities as a skater. Should we berate Joubert/Plushenko next year if they don't do programs with FOUR Quads, since they've never tried that and need to "improve"? I think not.

~Z

 

[feraina]

I can imagine why the Koreans are frustrated.

What is this nationalistic/racist obsessions with "Koreans"? I'm not Korean, and AFAIK, most of us responding to this thread are not Koreans. Why do we have to imagine the hypothetical "Koreans" being frustrated? Enough of us "non-Koreans" are getting frustrated here with such blatant immaturity.

 

[netnuts]

What is this nationalistic/racist obsessions with "Koreans"? I'm not Korean, and AFAIK, most of us responding to this thread are not Koreans. Why do we have to imagine the hypothetical "Koreans" being frustrated? Enough of us "non-Koreans" are getting frustrated here with such blatant immaturity.

Just refresh our memory, this guy is the same lunatic who claimed that korean officials poisoned Japanese skaters at GPF in order for Yu-Na to win.

This is getting out of hand, he's still fighting world war II. Many Japanese people are wonderful, and I hope they will call this guy out. It's shameful to spout such virtriol on a non-political FS forum. No wonder some neighbouring Asian countries are very nervous about the fascism element of Japanese society.

 

[satorare]

feraina and netnuts, stop childish labeling and slandering.

I'm just pointing out Kim's "problems", and that's what this thread is for, isn't it?

 

[Zuranthium]

feraina and netnuts, stop childish labeling

LMFAO. You're hilariously pathetic.

~Z

 

[Zuranthium]

Actually, that's not far off Van der Perren's program at the Olympics, except that he did not do any triple loops.

At 2004 Worlds he did a 3Flip/3Toe plus a 3Sal/3Toe/3Loop in the second half of the program. I think he could handle that program I suggested.

~Z

 

[Wrlmy]

feraina and netnuts, stop childish labeling and slandering.

I'm just pointing out Kim's "problems", and that's what this thread is for, isn't it?

As much as I hate to correct you, I have to point out that the original post of this thread was about Yu-na's back and boots problems.

 

[dlarry1]

Much like most other forums, you can "ignore" any posts from certain members. After complaining (and officially reporting) several times about a poster or posters in this thread, I know that ignoring the posts has restored both my sanity and faith in FS fans...

Just a thought...

 

[satorare]

Uhhh, no it's not??? You're simply wrong and should learn the mathematics of CoP. Three 2A's would only be bad if a skater had just Toeloop and Salchow in their repertoire. That would indeed be a very Junior program. But that's HARDLY the case with Yu-Na. She does 6 Triples and 2 of them are pure Lutzes.

I know Kim (and her mother) is very clever. She doesn't include a solo 3F to avoid possible lipping penalties. Maximizing GOE is the cemtral strategy for her survival, and she doesn't risk her life. But I think that's not a recommendable way for new senior skaters. They should try new things.

Yes she has. Her Axel jump has gotten stronger. In any case, at some point you're going to reach the ceiling of your realistic jumping abilities as a skater. Should we berate Joubert/Plushenko next year if they don't do programs with FOUR Quads, since they've never tried that and need to "improve"? I think not.

You mean her axel was so bad before?
She fell once and stepped out once on 2A's at four competitions.

She's not a woman Joubert at all. If I name a man it's definitely Lambiel. Lambiel can never challenge Joubert and Plushenko in jumps, so he needs "performances" to cover his weakness. That's what Kim is doing to counter againt Mao and Ando. Kwan did same thing againt Slutskaya. Same old strategy.

 

[Wrlmy]

I don't think either Yu-na or Lambiel use performance to cover their "weakness". Instead, performance is their strength. Many of us think performance is one of the most, if not the most, important factor of figure skating. But, if you think jump is the "core" of the fs, you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. And I expect you to do the same.

 

[Zuranthium]

I know Kim (and her mother) is very clever. She doesn't include a solo 3F to avoid possible lipping penalties.

Wrong yet again. She doesn't include a solo 3F because a solo 3Lutz is worth more. If the Zayak rule allowed you to repeat 3 Triples, I'm sure she would do another 3Flip instead of a Double Axel.

She does not "lip" either. This has been discussed.

You mean her axel was so bad before?

No, but she is getting more height on it than she used to which means better GOE.

Lambiel can never challenge Joubert in jumps.

Wow, I guess that's why Lambiel got more points for his jumps at 2005 Worlds, 2006 Olympics, and 2006 Worlds Qualification.

Until Joubert starts doing the 4Sal reliably, Lambiel can certainly challenge him. Joubert may be more reliable on the 3Axel but he's less reliable on the combination jumps.

~Z

 

[satorare]

As much as I hate to correct you, I have to point out that the original post of this thread was about Yu-na's back and boots problems.

Is there anything to talk about?
As far as I know, she's always complaining about some "problems". Yet they don't seem to affect competitions. Her so-called "hernia" was a false diagnosis after all. Her "back injury" may come out in fall, but I'm sure she still wins medals IN SPITE OF injuries.
What she should worry about is how the judges consider her attitudes.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I don't think either Yu-na or Lambiel use performance to cover their "weakness". Instead, performance is their strength.

exactly. either you are a jumper or an artist, rarely do you get both. Sasha was the best artist on ice EVER and but we all know what her jumps somtimes did. Then there are jumpers like Joubert and Kimmie Missner who are not naturally artistic and have to make huge efforts to bring a quality of style and fenisse to the ice. Whichever one you are, you should play up your strengths. duh.

 

[oleada]

Yu-Na Kim does not lip. Reread Metapor's excellent comments on the subject. It's the final post on page three. Here is a video that shows a proper flip (Yagudin & Kim) and a lip (Miki & Shizuka):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Iel9kjBAq2s

The idea that Yu-Na's program was easy is absolutely ridiculous. Yu-Na's short program has a base value is 33.70, second only to Miki Ando's (34.10) and ahead of Carolina Koster (33.60), Mao Asada (33.50) and Kimmie Miessner (33.10). Yu-Na can and does challenge Mao and Miki on her jumps, she just does it by executing her jumps very well. On her Triple Flip/Triple Toe (base value of 9.50) - she got a 2.00 GOE, for a total score of 11.50 (that's in both the long and the short at Worlds). By comparison, Mao only got a .43 GOE on her Triple Flip/Triple Loop in the FS for a total of 10.93 (10.50 + 10.93). Miki, who had the hardest combination out of all the ladies - Triple Lutz/Triple Loop, with a base value of 11.00 - had .83 (SP) and 1.14 for totals of 11.83 and 12.14. The difference in score between Yu-Na and Miki is certainly not huge.


In the short program Worlds, this is how the base value of the programs added up with the grade of execution:

Kim: 33.70 + 7.79 = 41.49
Ando: 34.10 + 4.57 = 38.67
Kostner: 33.60 + 4.78 = 38.38
Miessner: 33.30 + 3.38 = 36.68
Asada: 29.60 + 1.6 = 31.20

There is a lot to be said for doing difficult elements (which Yu-Na's are, whether you want to believe it or not) very well. The numbers speak for themselves.

And yeah, Yu-Na struggles with her loop. So does Mao with the salchow, Emily and the loop, Kimmie and Joannie with the lutz all season long. She's hardly the only one (which is why, imo, skaters should get a bonus for executing all different types of jumps).

You think jumps are the only important fact of figure skating. While they are and should be very important, they're not the only important aspect. Yu-Na is fantastic at expressing the music, connecting with the crowd and using her body very well. This is a huge bonus for her, because she's also a very talented technical skater.

 

[satorare]

Zuranthium, if your theory of point maximizing is correct and Kim doesn't LIP,
this should be the BEST plan.

3F+3T
2A
3Lz
---
3Lz+2T+2Lo
3S
3F
2A+2A+SEQ
base-value=45.84

 

[Zuranthium]

Although I do love Yu-Na, her elements in the SP were over-graded (except for the combination). It should have played out like this:

1. Yu-Na Kim - 69.2

3F + 3T ............. 9.0 (+ 2)
SpSq4 .............. 3.4
FSSp3 ............... 2.3
3Z ...................... 6.0 (+1)
SlSt3 ................. 3.1 (+ .5)
LSp4 .................. 2.6 (+ .5)
2A ...................... 3.5 (+ 1)
CCoSp4 ............. 3.5 --------------------- > Technical Total - 38.4

Program Components - 7.75, 7.5, 8.0, 7.5, 7.75 ......multiple by (.8)...... 30.8

~Z

 

[Zuranthium]

Zuranthium, if your theory of point maximizing is correct and Kim doesn't LIP,
this should be the BEST plan.

3F+3T
2A
3Lz
---
3Lz+2T+2Lo
3S
3F
2A+2A+SEQ
base-value=45.84

*sigh*, NOPE. Kim's current program is worth 46.76. At Worlds she tried to put both Lutzes in the second half of the program, which would have increased that amount to 47.01.

~Z