She has one flip jump in 3-3 combination and two lutzes in this program.
3L
3F-3T
3Lz
2A-3T-2T
3S-2T
2A
3Lz
I heard that she had got no points for her last 3Lz by the Zayak rule.
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Yu-Na Kim: Are all her problems at bay?
- Thread starter zephyrskates
- Start date
3L
3F-3T
3Lz
2A-3T-2T
3S-2T
2A
3Lz
I heard that she had got no points for her last 3Lz by the Zayak rule.
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
Yes, indeed. She did 2 Lutzes in that program and under the current rules she would have received 0 points for that second Lutz.
~Z
~Z
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2007
Yes. She did receive 0 point for that second Lutz.
BTW Yuna's music will be
SP-Die Fledermaus by J. Strauss
LP-Sun and Moon from Miss Saigon OST(mixed with other musics)
Miss Saigon!!! I think that is so Yuna!!
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Funny, we are discussing the loop jump and YuNa. After the 2005 season, nonKwan posters were laying it on thick that Michelle is leaving out the loop jump.
Fans of MK not-in-the-know were also concerned that she was always 'tweaking' good choreography. Of course, later we all found out about the hip problem and maybe a groin problem.
A solo loop jump is a toughie. It does not have the momentum a loop jump in combo has, and a skater must prepare for it carefully. Z is absolutely correct in that setting up for that jump is very important. I liked Irina's 3-turn sequence into the solo loop but if you noted she did it very gingerly.
I would love to see statistics showing which individual jumps are the most problematic (i.e., causing falls, or mishaps).
If it causes medical problems for YuNa, I won't mind if she leaves it out.
Joe
Fans of MK not-in-the-know were also concerned that she was always 'tweaking' good choreography. Of course, later we all found out about the hip problem and maybe a groin problem.
A solo loop jump is a toughie. It does not have the momentum a loop jump in combo has, and a skater must prepare for it carefully. Z is absolutely correct in that setting up for that jump is very important. I liked Irina's 3-turn sequence into the solo loop but if you noted she did it very gingerly.
I would love to see statistics showing which individual jumps are the most problematic (i.e., causing falls, or mishaps).
If it causes medical problems for YuNa, I won't mind if she leaves it out.
Joe
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
I thought at one point that Yu-na was practicing 3axel to counter Mao Asada. Any news on that front? Brian is probably the best person to teach her 3axel, but you never know. Shawn Sawyer has trained with Brian for years and 3axel is still nemesis for poor Shawn (remember how he popped it big time in the nationals).
Thanks for the information on the 3flip and 3loop, though. Good learning experience. I still believe that Mao is miles ahead of Yu-na in terms of competitive spirits and technicality. I guess we can discuss in another thread.
Thanks for the information on the 3flip and 3loop, though. Good learning experience. I still believe that Mao is miles ahead of Yu-na in terms of competitive spirits and technicality. I guess we can discuss in another thread.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
It seems strange to me that so many skaters lose points because of Zayak violations. Their coaches and choreographers know the rules, so the only thing I can figure is that the skaters either forget their programs or else try to improvise on the spot.
Nobunari Oda evidently spaced out in the LP at both the 2006 worlds and 2007 worlds. He did a fourth combo and received 0 points for it, where if he had just done the first jump and stopped he would have received full credit. (In 2006 it cost him the bronze medal.)
Both Slutskaya (2005 Worlds) and Plushenko (the GP final that he lost to Sandhu) did extra elements that cost them points because of Zayak violations. In those two cases I think it was the adrenalin rush -- look at me! I'm flying! nothing can stop me now, triple loop, triple loop, triple loop...(oops).
Yu-na Kim took a Zayak deduction at 2007 worlds (she would have finished third ahead of Meissner in the free skate -- but it didn't matter because she won third overall anyway). In her case, I think it was because she tried to improvise a correction of an earlier mistake.
She fell on the first jump of her 3Lz combo, so it was scored as just a solo Lutz. That meant her solo Lutz (the very next element) was automatically scored as a "phantom sequence," and it counted against her limit of three combos/sequences even though no second jump was attempted. Now she had her quota of three multiple jump elements (together with her 3F+3T and 2A+3T).
So when she did her solo 3S, she must have been thinking, I missed my earlier combo so I can turn this one into a combo by tacking on a 2T. Oops. No, that extra 1.43 points that she might have gained cost her the 4.95 points that she had in the bag for the Salchow.
Michelle always trained two endings. If she hit her 3T/3T at the beginning, then she did a split jump at the end. If she bailed with a 3T/2T, then she did an extra 3T at the end. I think that was good strategy. Trying to make up stuff as you go along -- that often seems to backfire.
Nobunari Oda evidently spaced out in the LP at both the 2006 worlds and 2007 worlds. He did a fourth combo and received 0 points for it, where if he had just done the first jump and stopped he would have received full credit. (In 2006 it cost him the bronze medal.)
Both Slutskaya (2005 Worlds) and Plushenko (the GP final that he lost to Sandhu) did extra elements that cost them points because of Zayak violations. In those two cases I think it was the adrenalin rush -- look at me! I'm flying! nothing can stop me now, triple loop, triple loop, triple loop...(oops).
Yu-na Kim took a Zayak deduction at 2007 worlds (she would have finished third ahead of Meissner in the free skate -- but it didn't matter because she won third overall anyway). In her case, I think it was because she tried to improvise a correction of an earlier mistake.
She fell on the first jump of her 3Lz combo, so it was scored as just a solo Lutz. That meant her solo Lutz (the very next element) was automatically scored as a "phantom sequence," and it counted against her limit of three combos/sequences even though no second jump was attempted. Now she had her quota of three multiple jump elements (together with her 3F+3T and 2A+3T).
So when she did her solo 3S, she must have been thinking, I missed my earlier combo so I can turn this one into a combo by tacking on a 2T. Oops. No, that extra 1.43 points that she might have gained cost her the 4.95 points that she had in the bag for the Salchow.
Michelle always trained two endings. If she hit her 3T/3T at the beginning, then she did a split jump at the end. If she bailed with a 3T/2T, then she did an extra 3T at the end. I think that was good strategy. Trying to make up stuff as you go along -- that often seems to backfire.
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- Joined
- May 2, 2007
miss saigon. ooh. snap. that oughta be good. i just want to see her express the tragedy of that love story.
Pardon my ignorance, but I guess I don't quite understand the Zayak rule, because I only see two 3T's and two 3Lz's. How come the second 3Lz didn't count? Because it was counted as a sequence?
Kypma
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2007
To repeat a triple jump one of them must be in a combo. She did 2 solo Lutz so the second didn't count. I thought that they just docked marks for this. Didn't Emily Huges get some marks for repeted jumps at 4cc this year? Have they changed the rule or I'm I just confused?
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
The problem was that Yu-na had already done three combos, the max allowed.
If she had not done three multi-jump passes, then when she did her second solo Lutz it would have been scored as a "sequence" even though there was no second jump. She would have got 80% value for it (5.28 points).
But since she couldn't do another sequence, she got 0 points for the element.
(She made the same mistake at Worlds. She did 4 combos/sequences, so the last one didn't count.)
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
OT -- question about Asian names.
One contributer to GS spells Kim's name Youn-Ah. Can any of our Korean members elucidate?
Also, is "Caroline" a hard name for Chinese speakers to pronounce, having both an R and an L in it? What would Caroline Zhang be called in China?
One contributer to GS spells Kim's name Youn-Ah. Can any of our Korean members elucidate?
Also, is "Caroline" a hard name for Chinese speakers to pronounce, having both an R and an L in it? What would Caroline Zhang be called in China?
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
I guess Yu-na is an anglosized version of Youn-ah which is closer to Korean pronunciation of her name. I imagine team Yu-na decided to spell her name more friendly to English-speaking fans in the hope that she would some day gain an international recognition.
Korean has its own alphabet, and Yu-na and Youn-Ah are two different Roman transliterations. If you sound them out, you'll realize they sound quite similar. I guess some people feel the syllables break before the "n", and others feel vice versa.
No, not particularly! You're perhaps thinking of the Japanese, who do have difficulty differentiating R and L. Chinese has both R and L sounds, as in "Renmingbi" (the Chinese currency), and the last name "Li". Caro's Chinese name is "Yuan-yuan." Most Chinese kids have a nickname that's a repetition of a syllable, as it is the diminutive/endearing form. The Wikipedia page has the original Chinese: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Zhang
"Yuan" in her name means "round", and can also mean "perfect" or "ideal" in some contexts.
Most Chinese people pick an English name that is completely different from their Chinese name, or at least only tangentially related, because it's better not to have your Chinese names be slaughtered by westerners.
"zh", "ch", "sh", "z", "c", "s", "r", "x", "q" are all completely different consonants in Chinese, but all end up sounding similar sometimes. I usually wince when I hear "Zhao Hongbo" and "Shen Xue" get announced, or Caroline's last name "Zhang." 
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
--From Romeo and Juliet, by Shakespeare
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
It's all in the pronunciation that is important. Their phonetic writings are not the same as English. If the non English script person wants his name spelled in a certain way, he will tell those using it. Many, if not most, who do not live outside their own countries don't care how it is spelled in English.
Compare Slutskaya with Slootskailla. (for want of a better example.)
Joe
Pardon my ignorance too; is it wrong to understand that if she had fallen on the second jump of her combo, the first one wouldn't have been scored as a "phantom sequence" to her next Lutz?
It seemd to me that Yu-Na(in Japan "YoNa-chan") had in her mind Miki's improvisational recovery combo at the TEB; Yu-Na was there (and won) so it night have been the memory of this that mislead Yona-chan.
Some also spell it Yeona... It really depends, because we don't have the exact same phonetics, so people I guess are just trying to get as close as possible to the way her name sounds in Korean. On Wikipedia, they even offer a new version, with her last name as Gim instead of the usual Kim...
Kypma
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Um, yes, I think that's right. If her first pass had been a triple Lutz + popped, underrotated, falling attempt at a second jump, then the first jumping pass would count as a combo and in the next jumping pass she would get full credit for the solo Lutz.
But you have to be careful. If you have to struggle between the two jumps of your combo to get the second one off, then it might count as two separate jumps. Now you are totally behind the eight ball, because you have lost one of your jumping passes altogether.
(That is my understanding. (?) )
