Senior Ladies Need To Up The Age Requirement

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All these talks are sheer nonsense. I was at Rusnats. Scherbakova and Kostornaya are top full package world skaters right now. Rika follows. Grace, emotions, attention to tiny details, you name it. Sasha is a huge jumping machine when she goes for quads. When she does not like during the Rusnats SP she is a full package as well. Alina quit for now, Zhenya's status is unclear, Satoko just cannot jump properly. Who else are we talking about? There are no one near. Therefore all these talks are pure jealosy. There are currently no senior skaters past 18 who are anywhere near the top young Russians in anything.

If it all just hides someones wish for Bradie and Mariah to win, then yes OK, I understand. But let's name things properly rather than create health and artistry related theories. Bradie is more artistic than Anna and Alyona? LOL.

 

[flanker]

It's not only a matter of height and weight. It's about maturity; maturity in artistry and expressions, in skating skills...

Yet I don't see a one single skater over 20 who would somehow significantly excell in maturity, artistry and expressions, in skating skills and whatever over russian ladies (or girls, as you like).

Japan? Kaori Sakamoto, who is 19, so not exactly somebody like fully experienced with life, universe and everything, has great skating skills, but she is struggling with jumps heavily this season. Satoko does well in expressions but I can't say she would be somewhere far away, and she also has well known technical issues. With those problems, even great artistry can't shine (and I don't want to see cases like Carolina on Euros 2018, where she got extremely high componets with absolutely disastrous skate). Rika is the same age category as Russians, so not exactly the one who should save "mature skating".

US ladies? Mariah and Bradie are of course good but they are definitely not an inch ahead of the russian ladies in those qualities that are still argumented here.

Canada has literally zero top lady now.

Then we have South Korea, where the starting field is as young as in Russia.

Anything else? I don't think so.

Well, we have Kazakhstan, actually, how could I forgot Lilbet

There are some skaters who are very expressive and artistic like Nicole Schott but her technical abilities are low, top skater must have both technical ability and artistic ability. It's a sport and technique can't be sacrificed.

 

[sk8kirsty]

I think age limit must be 21. I mean skaters older than 21 y. o. must be banned from competitions because long career in competitive figure skating is bad for human's health.

I'd say 24 should be the maximum

 

[Edwin]

This whole age limit discussion isn't about children's health, it's all about Russia's supremacy.

But Russia's supremacy is not because of age, it's because of the system: state sponsored sports schools (in all kinds of sports) and one single rink that raises the bar every year by total commitment to figure skating in all of its details.

When other nations implement the same kind of educational system, the playing field will become more level. Only in this level field, a cohesive argument about age divisions can be made.

IOC shouldn't discriminate by age or gender in any of its Olympic sports, so the same age limits should be applied in all sports so only consenting adults will compete. Which means 18 is perhaps still too young and 21 is better?

 

[Giu]

What "new jumpers"? Kostornaia, who won GPF? Valieva who won JGPF without a single quad ar 3A? They both are much more beautiful than any 20 y.o. Do you really follow ladies figure skating lately? What are you talking about??
You want "long lasting rivalries"? You mean you don't want new stronger skaters to emerge? Nice!

There's no need to answer in such a rude way only because someone doesn't have the same opinion as you.

FYI yes, I follow ladies figure skating and if you read my answer you will see that I've never said that I do not want new stronger skater to emerge; I want that but I want this to happen when they're ready to show their abilities to the fullest.
I don't want to see a 15 years old arrive, win everything only for a season and then be overtaken a year after by another 15 years old and so on. These type of skaters are "champions" that will soon be forgotten.

@flanker, yes there are no skaters over 20 that excell over russian ladies (you said russian ladies but I apply my though to the most of the 15-16 years old out there no matter their country) because they had to retire before. (and yes, in this case the russian trend of the last few years is a great example)

 

[Mishaminion]

There's no need to answer in such a rude way only because someone doesn't have the same opinion as you.

FYI yes, I follow ladies figure skating and if you read my answer you will see that I've never said that I do not want new stronger skater to emerge; I want that but I want this to happen when they're ready to show their abilities to the fullest.
I don't want to see a 15 years old arrive, win everything only for a season and then be overtaken a year after by another 15 years old and so on. These type of skaters are "champions" that will soon be forgotten.

@flanker, yes there are no skaters over 20 that excell over russian ladies (you said russian ladies but I apply my though to the most of the 15-16 years old out there no matter their country) because they had to retire before. (and yes, in this case the russian trend of the last few years is a great example)

To insert quotation Mark's around Champion is insulting to every single skater who wins a major title, even only once.

What is really so wrong with having a different champion every season? Isn't that actually more interesting than seeing the same one win over and over for years?

 

[Lzbee]

There's no need to answer in such a rude way only because someone doesn't have the same opinion as you.

FYI yes, I follow ladies figure skating and if you read my answer you will see that I've never said that I do not want new stronger skater to emerge; I want that but I want this to happen when they're ready to show their abilities to the fullest.
I don't want to see a 15 years old arrive, win everything only for a season and then be overtaken a year after by another 15 years old and so on. These type of skaters are "champions" that will soon be forgotten.

@flanker, yes there are no skaters over 20 that excell over russian ladies (you said russian ladies but I apply my though to the most of the 15-16 years old out there no matter their country) because they had to retire before. (and yes, in this case the russian trend of the last few years is a great example)

I am curious, which ladies over 20 would have been better than the current Russians if they had not retired?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

People saying they want longer careers but also want to shorten careers of skaters by three years is always so funny to me.

Skaters like Zhenya, Liza, and Alina would be more than capable of going to worlds and competing for a top ten spot. The rules don’t allow for more than 3 skaters per country. That is the rule that is shortening careers!. The one that ignores talent and results and sees only what country someone is from and excludes them from major international competition.

I’m not even suggesting we should change that rule so don’t @me!! I’m just pointing out what I believe is the real issue that causes skaters to retire early. The sport can’t and won’t make room for them and they end up retiring.

 

[nussnacker]

I think age limit must be 21. I mean skaters older than 21 y. o. must be banned from competitions because long career in competitive figure skating is bad for human's health.

 

[eaglehelang]

To insert quotation Mark's around Champion is insulting to every single skater who wins a major title, even only once.

What is really so wrong with having a different champion every season? Isn't that actually more interesting than seeing the same one win over and over for years?

It's ok to have a different champion every season(or year) so long the champion dont disappear after 1 or 2 years.

Longevity in a sport creates more followers, in terms of fans. It is also better for the athlete, esp if they are late bloomers. Imagine training their whole life, by the time they're 18 or 19 & dont make it, it's over.
If that's the case, in my opinion, better ask the child to go for another sport (including other precision type sports like diving.) In other sports, 17 or 18 the female athlete is just starting out Internationally. Retire at age 27 to 30.

Even in gymnastics, now there's longer 'shelf life' for the female gymnast if no major injury. Good the Alexandria Raismans.

 

[gkelly]

I keep saying: First define the problem that you want to solve, and then start brainstorming solutions.

Whenever raising the age limit comes up, it always seems that those who propose it are offering a solution first and then trying to brainstorm problems it's supposed to solve.

Which means that the real problem is probably that they don't want the sport to be dominated by younger competitors. In which case, make that the topic and start thinking of different ways to address it while considering possible other effects on the sport.

If the real reason is that someone wants to protect girls' health (or boys' health too if they include men's skating in the discussion), or their mental health, or that they want to see less emphasis on jump rotations in ladies' skating or in singles skating generally, or that they don't want one country to dominate, or that they want to see longer careers being possible for any skater who wants a long career and is able to stay healthy and good enough to compete at the highest levels, then start from that issue first and brainstorm different possible solutions for whatever the underlying issue to be solved really is.

 

[Mishaminion]

It's ok to have a different champion every season(or year) so long the champion dont disappear after 1 or 2 years.

Longevity in a sport creates more followers, in terms of fans. It is also better for the athlete, esp if they are late bloomers. Imagine training their whole life, by the time they're 18 or 19 & dont make it, it's over.
If that's the case, in my opinion, better ask the child to go for another sport (including other precision type sports like diving.) In other sports, 17 or 18 the female athlete is just starting out Internationally. Retire at age 27 to 30.

Even in gymnastics, now there's longer 'shelf life' for the female gymnast if no major injury. Good the Alexandria Raismans.

There are probably more flash in the pan skaters who have short careers than ones who stick around for a long time...at least in the last 20 years or so. Especially with the ladies.

What would most skaters choose, longevity or an Olympic/World title?
I know what I'd do, take the Olympic/World title and go on to other things.

Very few skaters stick around when they've won the big competitions already, Yuzuru Hanyu is one of the few who has and even he has struggled with his motivation to continue.

Michelle Kwan had a long career but she started out as a senior very young too, younger than most of these Russian girls. She could have even skated at Olympics in 1994 aged 13 and she too won her first Worlds at 15.
Who knows what might have happened had she won Olympics in 1998, perhaps she too would have retired.

 

[Arbitrary]

There are probably more flash in the pan skaters who have short careers than ones who stick around for a long time...at least in the last 20 years or so. Especially with the ladies.

What would most skaters choose, longevity or an Olympic/World title?
I know what I'd do, take the Olympic/World title and go on to other things.

Michelle Kwan had a long career but she started out as a senior very young too, younger than most of these Russian girls. She could have even skated at Olympics in 1994 aged 13 and she too won her first Worlds at 15.
Who knows what might have happened had she won Olympics in 1998, perhaps she too would have retired.

Priorities are well know:

- 2+ Olympics gold
- A single Olympics gold
- Multi-medal longetivity from OG/WC tournaments
- 2+ World golds
- Olympics silver/bronze medal(s)
- 2+ World medals
- Etc...

P.S. For Olympics Gold many are ready to sell their souls. Buying what is rare those days as the market of souls for sale is overcrauded.
(I'm a religious man)

P.P.S. I'd not be in hurry to bury Sasha's career. She can resurrect like a Phoenix any time soon.

 

[gkelly]

P.P.S. I'd not be in hurry to bury Sasha's career. She can resurrect like a Phoenix any time soon.

Sasha Cohen? That would make a good story!

 

[Albus]

It's not only a matter of height and weight. It's about maturity; maturity in artistry and expressions, in skating skills...

I have never seen the word "maturity" anywhere in the sport. Nether rulebooks, nor guides. I wish you would forget about it because it makes zero sense.

 

[[email protected]]

People saying they want longer careers but also want to shorten careers of skaters by three years is always so funny to me.

Skaters like Zhenya, Liza, and Alina would be more than capable of going to worlds and competing for a top ten spot. The rules don’t allow for more than 3 skaters per country. That is the rule that is shortening careers!. The one that ignores talent and results and sees only what country someone is from and excludes them from major international competition.

I’m not even suggesting we should change that rule so don’t @me!! I’m just pointing out what I believe is the real issue that causes skaters to retire early. The sport can’t and won’t make room for them and they end up retiring.

This is a wonderful comment. The only true issue is a cut-throat competition among Russian ladies for those 3 spots. And it is just getting worse. Valeria Shulskaya. Never heard that name and just saw her for the first time this weekend. She did not get to the final group at Rusnats but name her #1 in Russia and send her to the Europeans. She will win easily with no other Russians present. Send her to the worlds - top 10 easy, top 5 - may be. And she is no one in the Russian ranks.

I don't think that the age limit change will ever materialize. No one has competitive "mature" skaters to support at the expense of their stronger youngsters.

 

[Giu]

I have never seen the word "maturity" anywhere in the sport. Nether rulebooks, nor guides. I wish you would forget about it because it makes zero sense.

Yes, you’re right. Maturity is not in the rulebooks, but you can find “interpretation of the music”. Is a 15 years old able to understand and interpret adult pieces like a Moulin Rouge? Some musics can be easily interpreted by the youngest but there are others that need a full understanding and whether you like it or not, maturity... The same applies to men, I was at the gpf and I was amazed by the technical abilities of Daniil Samsonov but I found the choice of the music Per te by Josh Groban quite inappropriate for a 14 years old, how can we expect him to understand that song? I wish I could see a 18 years old Daniil performing again on the same music to enjoy an interpretation of the music conscious of the words he’s skating on.

 

[lpt]

At the Olympics 15 y.o. Zagitova's interpretation was a hundred times better than 24 y.o. Nagasu's interpretation. And Nagasu had 3A ("jumper!").

 

[jenaj]

I think this discussion should be tabled until after the 2022 Olympics. By that time, the "3A" will all be 17 or 18 (Alena). If they are still at top form technically, the discussion will be moot. But if their technical skills have fallen off and a 15 year old quadster wins the Olympics, then I think the discussion is worth having. The age should be set at a time when skills gained at a very young age are not likely to fall off, so that it can be reasonably expected that a skater's competitive life will last beyond age 17.

 

[jenaj]

At the Olympics 15 y.o. Zagitova's interpretation was a hundred times better than 24 y.o. Nagasu's interpretation. And Nagasu had 3A ("jumper!").

In your opinion. I was never impressed with Zagitova's interpretation of her Don Quixote program. It was a technical feat, primarily, with all of the jumps crammed into the second half of the program.