Rafael Harutyunyan: “Why is Zagitova worse than Hanyu?”
A large interview with the famous coach - about Zagitova, Trusova, Kostornaya, age qualification and refereeing
The victory of two-time world champion Nathan Chen over Yuzuru Hanyu in the Grand Prix Final was simply triumphant. Two cleanest programs, in which seven quadruple jumps were performed, a record and simply cosmic sum of 335.30 points. And the cherry on the cake is the final path of steps in the free program, which did not leave any spectator indifferent. How is this possible, with continuing full-time training in Yale, skater coach Rafael Harutyunyan talked about an exclusive interview with “SE”.
Rafael Harutyunyan: “Why is Zagitova worse than Chania?”
A great interview with the famous coach - about Zagitova, Trusova, Kostorna, age qualification and refereeing
The victory of two-time world champion Nathan Chen over Yuzuru Hanyu in the Grand Prix Final was simply triumphant. Two cleanest programs, in which seven quadruple jumps were performed, a record and simply cosmic sum of 335.30 points. And the cherry on the cake is the final path of steps in the free program, which did not leave any spectator indifferent. How is this possible, with continuing full-time training in Yale, skater coach Rafael Harutyunyan said in an exclusive interview with “SE”.
He also explained why:
- wishes Alina Zagitova to continue her career;
- worries about Kostornaya, Trusova and Shcherbakova;
- is ashamed to write negative about Tat'yana Tarasova and Alexey Mishin;
- continues to insist on raising the age limit;
- Eteri Tutberidze managed to put the quadruple jumps in the group;
- Globally, Europe and the USA will never catch Russia in figure skating;
- the existing grading system is not perfect;
- he is not ready to work at ISU and much more.
Legendary teachers
"Chen arrived two weeks ahead of Turin, I had the opportunity to train him and the result is obvious," began Harutyunyan.
- Moreover, in such a time it was possible to get in shape, and not bring the athlete to the state of squeezed lemon, that is, when he trains in front of you, he will empty himself ahead of time and then at the competition will be completely empty. That is why last year, when Nathan wanted to come to me a week before some very large starts, I told him: “No, don’t come.” At first he was offended, and then realized it was right and even asked: “How do you know everything?” Well, how did it come about, it’s not for nothing that I have been working for 45 years?
Yes, and my teachers were good - Tat'yana Anatolyevna Tarasova, Alexey Nikolayevich Mishin, who worked with Galina Zmiyevskaya nearby. I was glad just to breathe the same air with them, you know? If now at competitions Mishin or Tarasova pass by me, I stop, if they come, I say hello. If not, I will not bother them myself.
-- This season, another one of your students left a very good impression - 23-year-old American Mariah Bell, who became third at the Grand Prix stage in Moscow.
- Well, see how good it is! So, I still can do something (smiles). I am generally offended when I am associated exclusively with Americans and American skating. In my best times, Mariya Sotskova came to me for training camps, Misha Kolyada came, this summer we had Kseniya Sinitsyna and her coach. I’m like a doctor, to whom any person can turn for help. Apparently, that's why I often work with adult athletes. Many of them trained there somewhere, played the fool, and then faced a dilemma: to finish or skating on? As a result, they come to my group. True, for real results one has to wait a long time: two years - at least, four years - a more optimal period.
A smart person must be able to train himself
-- And are they ready to wait? Find all this strength and money?
- Who is? The biggest problem is that you cannot give more than the skater can take. They ask me: why don’t you tell everything at once? Yes, because an athlete can understand some things only after three to four years. We went through this with both Ashley Wagner and Adam Rippon, with the same Bell, with Misha Brzezina. Nathan came to me at the age of 10, and before the age of 14-15 I taught him how to train. I can’t train an athlete all the time. Why? Yes, because no one can afford to pay for three hours of training per day. It's about 500 dollars! Therefore, I learn them to learn and train on my own. If a person is smart, he must be able to. Thanks to this, Chen also trains on his own.
-- This nuance clarifies a lot about the training of Yevgeniya Medvedeva in the absence of Brian Orser and in CSKA, and later in Sankt Petersburg, and in Toronto in his absence ...
- This happens for a simple reason. In Russia, I could train a skater for three hours a day. I had a leading athlete and the rest of the group, which was attached to him. In the USA, the system is different - separate lessons. A skater may come to you and say: “Today I don’t have money for a half-hour training, I only have for like 20 minutes.” So what? And tomorrow he will not have money for that either. In this situation, there is only one way out - to teach him how to train. For athletes with whom I have been working for three to four years, I don’t give lessons at all, I just control them. Not very smart ones are offended: “You stopped training me!” But I see everything: every movement, jump, when they came and went, the whole process, then I go up to them and talk about the flaws.
If an athlete performs what you require of him, then he progresses. But it happens that I'm looking for some other methods. For example, I bring the thought through my assistant, and then a real explosion occurs in the skater’s head: “Oh, two people told me the same thing at once!” In fact, there is such a psychological trick. Something similar was used by our illustrious coach Stanislav Zhuk. He invited the athletes to watch, gave them a task, and he himself asked that he was supposedly called to the phone - he left and watched who was doing what in his absence. And he simply did not take those who inaccurately performed the task.
Tension between the girls
-- Now Shoma Uno finally decided that he would train with Stephan Lambiel, but before that, he didn’t ask you?
- Understand, this is a thing. There are athletes whom I objectively cannot take now. Shoma, for example, even if he would like to come to me, I simply could not fit him into my existing group, because the work should be comfortable for everyone. Recall the hype surrounding the incident with Eu-Soo Lim and Bell last year. But the truth is that tension between rivals always exists. It's just that some athletes are more restrained in their emotions, while someone, on the contrary, spills them out. I think that it is not easy for Russian girls to train together.
-- Be that as it may, but at all official events and not only they are an example of classmates friendly to each other.
- Well done, so they try! They should be cute in public, this is the unspoken rule of our sport, but we are not boxing or MMA.
-- However, it seems to me that this emphasised goodwill with rival classmate Alina Zagitova in the Olympic season cost Medvyedeva considerable psychological strength ...
- Yes, it is always difficult. I have said many times that I am a fan of Yuzuru: I really love what he does, how he progresses after the two Olympics. This season, he jumped a quadruple Lutz and Rittberger, which two or three years ago were not in his arsenal at all! This is just phenomenal, I really worship him! And now, watching such an amazing athlete, making comments that it’s time for someone to retire, for example, the same Zagitova, is, in my opinion, simply unethical.
On the contrary, I wish her longevity in sports. But for this, she needs to change her attitude towards the profession. You should not give in to instilled panic: you will not get into the national team and what to do next? Offended, shoot yourself? You need to find the causes of the problems and begin to solve them. If she really wants to continue, she must return to her coach and say: “I want!” The question is precisely in motivation, in desire.
-- But it’s obvious that she will have to become more technically complicated in order to continue her career, to learn a quad jump or triple Axel ...
- What is keeping her?”Too late? Lisa Tuktamysheva, however, jumped her quad at the age of 23. Here we compare the nuances of training in the US and Russia - overseas, the athlete, and the coach have complete freedom of choice. I myself decide who to take to train and who not to. No federation, no management can influence your decision. This is your personal business. For example, I am now helping a young talented junior from the American team. The initiators were the parents - they are the boy’s trainers. I am happy to work with him, although I understand very well that he is a potential rival to my student from Canada. When he asked, I just couldn’t refuse him, his desire to train, and his motivation just went wild, and healthy rivalry is what brings the result. I like motivated guys, no matter what age they are, the main thing is to educate them correctly so that they turn into competent athletes.
As for Zagitova, she’s no worse than Yuzuru, a successful long-liver in our difficult sport. She is talented, beautiful, she is just nice to watch. So the athlete must decide over his own fate. I remember the time when I worked in Russia. Unfortunately, where often coaches, and even the leadership, tried to crush the athletes with their authority, and in my opinion, they need to be given the opportunity to figure out everything themselves.
Save Zagitova
-- This season, Zagitova trained and performed in a less intense mode than before, as if Eteri Tutberidze gave her a little more freedom ...
- And what about Eteri Georgiyevna? Look at what she does! She brought so many athletes to Turin! Tutberidze’s knows full well and understands figure skating, and she will surely find a way to solve everything with Alina. Here, the thing is different. In Turin, and at previous competitions I repeatedly heard the opinion: “She had to quit in time!” And now I like her more, and I’ll be very upset if she leaves the sport. I would like Zagitova and Medvyedeva to continue to compete with each other. It’s interesting to follow such an intrigue! Like a duel between Hanyu and Chen at the men's tournament in this Grand Prix Final.
-- Instead, in female skating, in principle, there are other variations of the Trusova-Kostornaya duels - quadruples versus balanced skating or Trusova-Shcherbakov - the battle of two kwadistkas ...
- Do you know why girls are doing this right now? Because the quad jump technique has stabilized. In the group of Tutberidze they found the right balance: how the body should be, from which position it's best to jump. Another question is that I want all these young girls to grow into mature skaters with good technique. Take Hanyu for example, remember how it all began? And now he is an icon. Spectator interest in figure skating practically rests on him alone, Yuzuru is a hit, and now the Russian girls have no less potential.
There is no system in the USA and Europe
-- But what about the opinion that Europe and the USA are not interested in mature figure skating?
- It can't be uninteresting.You just need to understand that neither in Europe, nor in the USA, there can be so many well-trained young talents. Because with how much time is allotted to girls before the start of puberty, with the set of complex elements that need to be mastered, you need to start working professionally from the age of four. In no other country in the world, except Russia, this happens.
-- Because everyone pities children?
- Because there is no system in which a four-year-old child enters and starts to engage in choreography, physical training, and spend a sufficient amount of time on ice. In my understanding, in America children are often not trained, just brought to the rink to ride for fun. Then, suddenly, at the family council, they decide to take this matter seriously. Mom brings me a child and says: “I have a very good girl, very talented (which I basically agree with) - though she is still small, she has just turned ten years old, but she is already jumping all the double jumps.” To which I reply: “Not yet ten, but already”.
Do you even look at what is happening in the world?
It’s just that the parents don’t quite understand that there is not so much time devoted to studying the number of elements that would allow their child to perform at a high level. Maximum four years. Then this girl begins to turn into an adolescent, and there a completely different approach and a different job are required. But that's a completely different story.
So I hone my skills, “reanimating” talented guys who like figure skating, just like to train. You can say this is my specialty. As far as possible I try to squeeze the maximum out of the situation in which this or that athlete finds himself.
Liu is a unicum
-- And Alysa Liu with her quadruple Lutz and triple Axel?
- Yes, there are unique cases, exceptions to the rules - the same Alysa, Michelle Kwan, Chen. But Nathan’s system was created by his mother: from the age of five he was engaged in choreography, gymnastics, music, spent a sufficient amount of time on ice. Until about 10 years old, he came to me, I put individual elements to him. And 10 years later, he told his mother: “If we don’t move, then I can’t progress.” But by this moment he was already physically prepared for the subsequent professional work.
-- However, according to your logic, everything should be fine with us and our men's skating, but the guys can’t realise their potential in any way ...
- Never compare boys with girls - they have completely different development schedules. Boys develop later. In addition, girls by their nature are more executive, as a child they are more attentive and conscientious about training. Until the age of 14 they do everything, and then what happens to Lipnitskaya, Radionova, Tsurskaya and Pogorila happens. Growth and weight parameters are changing for the worse: here a technical gap pops up and a not entirely competent approach to training. Boys at first play the fool, and then, having gained strength, with proper work turn into professionals. Not to mention even Plyushchenko and Hanyu, take at least Sergey Voronov. Where are these girls now with whom he started training?
Girl vs woman - not fair
-- Tuktamysheva has been on ice for her eighth adult season, is constantly improving technically, however ...
- I will say the same thing: no need to compete girls with women. It's not fair! I am very worried about all the athletes. And I am really very sorry for the matured skater who invested 12 years of her work, then began to lose to the 11-year-old girl with a quad jump. The rating system is imperfect, and the points that are now given for the quadruple are not an objective criterion for good sliding - neither for girls nor for boys. The only criterion is the quality of the performance of the elements. The system does not take into account a natural phenomenon: a girl will sooner or later turn into a woman. This is a fact!
And then the child easily jumps quadruple jumps, and a successful figure skater a couple of years earlier was told: "you know, you should have retired". But later they will tell this girl with her quadruple jumps the same, and the next one. Why not divide age groups and give everyone the opportunity to fight honestly! I know, someone thinks: he says that because he is afraid of "in the USA there is nobody". Yes, I'm not afraid of anything! Just separate: quadruple jumps and technical skating - on this side, the feminine - there. And let everyone have their own audience. Then, perhaps, it would be possible to avoid such dramas as with Lipnitskaya, Pogorila, Radionova. And tomorrow what will happen, you know, what is the forecast?
-- Among the hopes of Beijing-2022, it is customary to include 13-year-old Kamila Valiyeva ...
- There you see! But the very same Kostornaya, Trusova and Shcherbakova have already invested a lot of effort in their careers. We, adults, are obliged to create the necessary conditions so that these children are not left outside the struggle. Six years ago I said this, and everyone thought that I was defending Wagner, and now they would think the same over Bell. But I don’t even try to compete with young Russian girls (laughs), I just do my job - I train.
A trainer is an educator
-- In an interview with Vladimir Pozner, Tutberidze outlined another problematic aspect of working with young skaters - not everyone is ready to continue working after big victories as if there was no triumph before that.
- She most likely knows what she’s talking about. When I encounter such moments, I step aside. I’m calling a friend, the mother of this skater, or, for example, I ask the skater of the ice rink to tell her: “You are cool and everything is fine with you.” How do you know that this will not work? The trainer's task is to choose the right words if the athlete loses motivation.
By the way, on the question of motivation, the continuation of a career and the stars in sports. Let me give you an analogy: I want to drink from my beloved dear cup, I want to pass it on to my son and grandson, I can not stand disposable dishes. A new athlete will appear - and what will it change? Are we consumers of athletes or coaches? We are primarily educators, and we are responsible.
-- The last phrase characterises you as a typical Russian coach, it is unlikely in the US and Canada there is such reason ...
- Maybe that's why I beat them? (smiles) Many just come to make money. So this question was neither in Russia nor in the USA asked. I'm just a coach who educates high-class skaters. I am pleased that my athletes adore me and continue to feel good after they finish their careers. In Russia, I was worse.
-- tougher?
- More motivated. And now there is less motivation, but professionalism and respect for the work of athletes have been added.
Looking for professional prime girls
-- And how do you like the position regarding young technical skaters: they will win everything in two or three years and have every right to finish and start a new life?
- This is the choice of each athlete, we can only advise him. Nathan is studying at a serious university, in Yale, teachers there demand from him the same way as I do. Therefore, he has to skate well and study. Somehow none of us will allow him. The day before the free program in the Grand Prix Final, he was sitting in the lounge area right on the ice rink and doing his math assignments for four to five hours. Then he will pass the exams and then the US Championship.
Returning to age, this is not only a problem of Russia, it is a global problem, remember Tara Lipinski, who won the Olympic Games at the age of 14 and finished. I'm on no one’s side. Where did this figure come from - 15 years? And in this fight can you imagine a 15-year-old, but in hockey? They break all the same. I would like for our sport to have professional girls who, like ballerinas, know how to eat, train, watch their bodies and remain prime. I am sure that time will pass, and everyone will ripen before that.
-- In contrast to your point of view, you can cite Kamila Valiyeva and Alyona Kostornaya, who already combine the most difficult jumps and beautiful skating.
- To each their own. As for who is better - it's all debatable. The main thing is not to be dared. Why does no one think that I am not opposed, but rather want to protect Trusova and Shcherbakova? Just imagine a tournament in which Lipnitskaya, Radionova, Pogorilaya, Zagitova, Medvedev, Tuktamysheva and Tsurskaya would perform! At what level would they compete! With age, they could hone their technique to perfection, bring their physical capabilities to perfect condition - and would please us with their skill. Like Yuzuru, who is literally driven by thousands of fans!
Volunteering and uncontrolled aggression
-- This year, both Chen, and Bell have bright programs - eye-catching. What did you like from other athletes?
- I really liked Zagitova’s programs, I saw changes in Medvyedeva’s programs, interesting movements appeared there. Young girls also have good programs, many movements, extensions, swinging their legs. Kostornaya’s appearance is more mature, but she’s a bit older. But so far this isn't something that is breathtaking. I would like to wait for this!
-- The judges, however, disagree with you about Alyona and immediately began to evaluate her very highly.
- So they are volunteers. Some of them were engaged in figure skating in the past, and some had an indirect relation to sports. Many ISU members have their own main job. The vice president of the organization, Aleksander Lakernik, is a professor of mathematics and teaches at university. Someone is a dentist, someone works in a medical center. In their free time, they decide what is right for figure skating. And we, the coaches, who in life do not know how to do anything else, we themselves have granted them such a right. But if you are outraged and unhappy with something - go there and do better.
-- You were with Chen at the Grand Prix stage in France and there judging the women's tournament was one of the toughest in the series ...
- As long as people judge, any system will be imperfect. It is possible that the technical controller was simply independent of everybody and set what she saw, and maybe vice versa. There are other problems in refereeing: an athlete performing in his own country will always receive support. Therefore, it remains only to be utterly better, as Eteri does - she simply does not give them a chance. But there are a lot of questions, on under rotations, repulsions, their quality and length. The latter cannot be taken for review, they only look at the edges on the Flip and Lutz. In our country, half of the skaters jump their toepikc jumps from a full foot, there are even those in which the push length exceeds the size of three skates.
But if Tat'yana Anatolyevna and Alexey Nikolayevich say something, the negative immediately rises! And I always think: “Shame on you, friends?” How can one suspect them or Tamara Nikolayevna Moskvina of any preferences? They dedicated their whole life to figure skating! They forgot their husbands, wives, children and developed this sport for the glory of the country in which they lived and live. And are you trying to say something bad about them? They are honoured and respected people, I am proud that I can just stand next to them. Now the time has arrived for some kind of unpunished aggression on the Internet.
Practical approach
-- Why did they put such low marks during the season, by the way, to the current European champion Sof'ya Samodurova?
- She now has the very difficult period of growth, in addition, success always has many fathers, and failure is always an orphan. The federations employ people who are responsible for the development of a particular sport and relate to what is happening from a purely practical point of view. Understand how you want it.
-- There is an opinion that for Tuktamysheva getting higher components, this very support is not enough ...
- And why didn’t anyone shout when the components of Zagitova in the Olympic season after the news about Medvyedeva’s injury changed? It somehow happened. What does this tell us? The fact that refereeing is not entirely transparent and objective in our country. And the junior girls, you say, skated beautifully in Turin, but is it as beautiful as Zagitova? Not. But whether it was much appreciated by estimates - the answer is also negative.
-- But whatever the system, you continue to work in it ...
- Yes. I like what I do. I could have worked at ISU, tried to make the system more transparent - for example, I would have involved several more practicing trainers in collaboration. But what will I impose? Yes, I already work for 10 hours every day ... After that I want to ride a bike and go to the beach so that I can be silent for at least three hours there. Or I come home and ask my wife not to even talk, I jump on my motorcycle and leave.
(c) Екатерина Беспалова
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From:
https://www.sport-express.ru/figure...itovoy-i-rossiyskom-figurnom-katanii-1627664/
That's also 1,5 points...
