2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Tyranid]

20:55 The main rivals of the Tutberidze group at the European Championship are students of Orser, Pltushchenko and haters

What?! :eeking: Haters actually coach skaters now??? I've seen it all!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

It would be interesting if she could land all of those quads, which she cannot.

I wouldn't doubt her. The 3A in the SP is iffy, but she's determined and probably hungrier than ever having to chase Anna and Alena.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Sport Express live stream discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-74rcxTsk8

Themes touched upon and/or discussed in this time line:
1:45 Question about the age limit
2:30 We return to the championship of Russia:
5:27 Withdrawal of Medvyedeva: not all skaters believe Yevgeniya
10:17 Tuktamysheva not upset over fourth place
11:55 Triple Axels of the group Misha and Samodurova’s being hated: What is happening?
14:18 Tuktamysheva is already a brand
18:44 Tutberidze Show in the den of the Professor
20:55 The main rivals of the Tutberidze group at the European Championship are students of Orser, Plyushchenko and haters
25:31 Trusova, Shcherbakova, Kostornaya - which of them is favourite?
29:27 A split in Tutberidze's Trio - is it real?
37:27 Foreigners demand an increase in the age limit - is it envy or concern?
43:12 Insiders from the ISU Congress: will the ban on quadruples be lifted and figure skating will be divided into two separate types?
49:03 In Russia, competitions are more interesting than abroad
52:28 Is it realistic to take Gold in dancing?
55:16 Our men: who goes to the European Championship, who will fly out before the World Championships and why the chances of gold are high
1:00:30 The problem with the growth of our singles and the loss of the Youth Olympics
1:04:36 In pairs - the coolest confrontation in the style of female singles
1:12:33 Canadian Championship, USA and Medvyedeva citizenship

Barring a 3 fall program from P/C, and the competition getting spontaneously moved to Russia, S/B and S/K have absolutely no shot at winning gold, but should win silver and bronze. Interesting to see in which order.

 

[Jontor]

She has a 74% success rate on quads(which is more than Anna with her 63%).
At international competitions, Anna will not have scores as at Nationals and Sasha will have be enough a clean program with 4 quads to beat her(even with 2A in SP)

Well, 4 quads aren't enough to beat a clean Anna. That was proven at both GPF and at RusNats. Sasha will need that 3A and she needs to land it.

 

[elysium]

Well, 4 quads aren't enough to beat a clean Anna. That was proven at both GPF and at RusNats. Sasha will need that 3A and she needs to land it.

Sasha gets penalized a bit for not being clean. If she can get a clean 4 quad program, I think she has a chance to beat Anna. It depends on who lands the cleanest that day. If both are jumping as perfect as they could, Sasha should get better GOE to compensate for the loss in PCS. For instance Anna can get edge calls etc. A 5 quad program to be able to win is just too crazy, it’s like there are only two men that can do it.

Anyway, wish all the 3A a good competition in Austria.

 

[Edwin]

Barring a 3 fall program from P/C, and the competition getting spontaneously moved to Russia, S/B and S/K have absolutely no shot at winning gold, but should win silver and bronze. Interesting to see in which order.

Bespalova and Kuznetsov (the hosts) came to the same conclusion

 

[nussnacker]

Wait. Groups of skating fans and backers of particular skaters pay to have professional trolls spam figure skating boards and social media?

That explains a lot. :yes:

A little late, but you made me think about this pic, Mathman

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/bjD7f3p

 

[SkatingFan9]

Well, 4 quads aren't enough to beat a clean Anna. That was proven at both GPF and at RusNats. Sasha will need that 3A and she needs to land it.

Sure it is. What you also keep forgetting (or not wanting to consider) is the fact that Sasha’s PCS would rise with a clean skate. Also, her PCS at the final of Grand Prix was lowballed and not something that she should expect moving forward.

Anyway, I think we all know that a clean Sasha skating her absolute max has by far the highest scoring potential out anyone. Let’s wait and see what happens at Euros.

 

[Jontor]

Sasha gets penalized a bit for not being clean. If she can get a clean 4 quad program, I think she has a chance to beat Anna. It depends on who lands the cleanest that day. If both are jumping as perfect as they could, Sasha should get better GOE to compensate for the loss in PCS. For instance Anna can get edge calls etc. A 5 quad program to be able to win is just too crazy, it’s like there are only two men that can do it.

Anyway, wish all the 3A a good competition in Austria.

The thing though with Sasha's 4 quad program is that it is only worth 3.28 more points than Anna if both goes clean (with GOE+3). Anna usually has that in spins, footwork and PCS. So it is not enough.
But it is hard for them both to be completely clean, so the cleanest will probably win.

I too wish all 3A the best, it's going to be an exciting Europeans.

And I am curious about Safonova and Kurakova for 4th place. And can Tornaghi be in that fight too?

 

[Jontor]

Sure it is. What you also keep forgetting (or not wanting to consider) is the fact that Sasha’s PCS would rise with a clean skate. Also, her PCS at the final of Grand Prix was lowballed and not something that she should expect moving forward.

Anyway, I think we all know that a clean Sasha skating her absolute max has by far the highest scoring potential out anyone. Let’s wait and see what happens at Euros.

Anna was also lowballed at GPF but was still 3 points ahead of Sasha in PCS. They both had two mistakes in the long with a fall so it is comparable. What you have to consider is that if they both go clean, Anna has a more maximized difficult program with more Lutzes.

They both have very difficult programs though, and it is superhard to be completely clean. And if they're not - Kostornaia will be up there and take the crown just like in GPF.

It will be a very exciting Europeans

 

[SkatingFan9]

Anna was also lowballed at GPF but was still 3 points ahead of Sasha in PCS. They both had two mistakes in the long with a fall so it is comparable. What you have to consider is that if they both go clean, Anna has a more maximized difficult program with more Lutzes.

They both have very difficult programs though, and it is superhard to be completely clean. And if they're not - Kostornaia will be up there and take the crown just like in GPF.

It will be a very exciting Europeans

Anna, lowballed? What? Didn’t she receive her highest PCS (and by far), while Sasha received her lowest? You can’t call that being lowballed, sorry.

Also, the thing is, Sasha has yet to receive her expected and much deserved PCS boost in the ways that Anna already has. It’s only a matter of time until Sasha gets a far more deserving PCS and she catches up with Anna.

We shall see.

 

[Mathman]

My money's got to be on Alexandra.

Think about it. She will rotate about ten thousand degrees in her LP. Each degree is worth 0.00725 points or so.. It adds up. :yes:

 

[Jontor]

Anna, lowballed? What? Didn’t she receive her highest PCS (and by far), while Sasha received her lowest? You can’t call that being lowballed, sorry.

Also, the thing is, Sasha has yet to receive her expected and much deserved PCS boost in the ways that Anna already has. It’s only a matter of time until Sasha gets a far more deserving PCS and she catches up with Anna.

We shall see.

Yes, Anna received her best PCS - finally! With a fall and an underrotation on the 4Lz. Sasha had a fall on her 4T and popped her 4S. The mistakes they did were comparable. Anna simply got better PCS than Sasha because she has much better skating skills and musicality. I'm sorry, there is no scenario I can see with the programs they have, that Sasha can come up to Anna's level in PCS.

But we shall see

 

[SkatingFan9]

Yes, Anna received her best PCS - finally! With a fall and an underrotation on the 4Lz. Sasha had a fall on her 4T and popped her 4S. The mistakes they did were comparable. Anna simply got better PCS than Sasha because she has much better skating skills and musicality. I'm sorry, there is no scenario I can see with the programs they have, that Sasha can come up to Anna's level in PCS.

But we shall see

Sasha has better skating skills than Anna.

 

[Jontor]

Sasha has better skating skills than Anna.

OK, then we disagree. I think the judges do too.

 

[SkatingFan9]

OK, then we disagree. I think the judges do too.

The judges often end up disagreeing amongst themselves and from tournament to tournament. They’re hardly consistent.

 

[ramed]

BTW brief overview of the ex-russian ladies competing for another countries this season:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3IL5YyKAvk

I'm curious, where were the eyes of the author of that vid? Apparently he didn't realize that Alina Urushadze (GEO) is born and lives in Moscow and Nelli Ioffe (ISR) hails from Vladimir and also trains in Moscow. The total number of Russian female skaters representing other countries is 7. Alina made quite a good impression during recent Youth Olys, btw.

 

[Jontor]

The judges often end up disagreeing amongst themselves and from tournament to tournament. They’re hardly consistent.

We've only had two competitions with both of them so far. But the judges have been fairly consistent. Shcherbakova ahead of Trusova in PCS. For example, at RusNats in the short when both were clean, Anna had over a point over Sasha in PCS. Which would translate to about 3 points in the long. So it's consistent with the judging from GPF. And if Sasha had been clean in the long at RusNats she probably would have got 1 point more maybe two tops. But for sure she would have been behind Anna.

I'm pretty sure the trend will be the same at Europeans in the PCS scoring. But I guess we will have to wait and see, and continue this discussion after that.

 

[SkateSkates]

We've only had two competitions with both of them so far. But the judges have been fairly consistent. Shcherbakova ahead of Trusova in PCS. For example, at RusNats in the short when both were clean, Anna had over a point over Sasha in PCS. Which would translate to about 3 points in the long. So it's consistent with the judging from GPF. And if Sasha had been clean in the long at RusNats she probably would have got 1 point more maybe two tops. But for sure she would have been behind Anna.

I'm pretty sure the trend will be the same at Europeans in the PCS scoring. But I guess we will have to wait and see, and continue this discussion after that.

Yes, PCS gaps for the 2 events with all 3 ladies has been fairly consistent. However, we must note that Sasha had more major noticeable errors (I’m not considering Anna’s UR lutz or Aliona’s imperfect landings as major errors, but Sasha’s big falls and pops were), so Sasha has room to grow IMO.

GPF:
Sasha 65
Anna 69
Aliona 73

Nationals:
Sasha 69
Anna 73
Aliona 77

Even with nationals inflation, the gap is about the same. We will see if this trend continues at Euros and worlds. I just hope the PCS will actually reflect what we see on the ice. If someone improves, I hope it goes up. Conversely, if someone has a bad skate, I would hope the performance mark reflects this.

 

[Jontor]

Yes, PCS gaps for the 2 events with all 3 ladies has been fairly consistent. However, we must note that Sasha had more major noticeable errors (I’m not considering Anna’s UR lutz or Aliona’s imperfect landings as major errors, but Sasha’s big falls and pops were), so Sasha has room to grow IMO.

GPF:
Sasha 65
Anna 69
Aliona 73

Nationals:
Sasha 69
Anna 73
Aliona 77

Even with nationals inflation, the gap is about the same. We will see if this trend continues at Euros and worlds. I just hope the PCS will actually reflect what we see on the ice. If someone improves, I hope it goes up. Conversely, if someone has a bad skate, I would hope the performance mark reflects this.

I'm afraid it's not how the PCS works today unfortunately. I also hope it would reflect what we see but mostly it does not.
Europeans and Worlds are known for boosting the PCS for all, so I expect it to go up for all 3A from GPF a bit. Maybe not as high as at RusNats but close.
We'll see how it goes.