Yagudin went to Tarasova in 1998, after Nagano OG, so he was with her for 4 years, not several months. She made him Olympic champion.
Plushenko has surgery on knees
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Yagudin went to Tarasova in 1998, after Nagano OG, so he was with her for 4 years, not several months. She made him Olympic champion.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
It seemed that he was torn between wanting to compete and the pressure the Federation was putting on him to return, and his shows, businesses, and politics. It's probable that his divorce will set him back financially.
He must have learned from the last Olympic cycle that if he's going to have surgery, it better be now. The other upside to the timing is that he's either going to be ready to return physically or not. Very hopefully his knees get fixed so that he's not in pain for the rest of his career -- eligible or pro -- and life, and that the recovery period gives him some breathing room and thinking time during which other people back off.
He must have learned from the last Olympic cycle that if he's going to have surgery, it better be now. The other upside to the timing is that he's either going to be ready to return physically or not. Very hopefully his knees get fixed so that he's not in pain for the rest of his career -- eligible or pro -- and life, and that the recovery period gives him some breathing room and thinking time during which other people back off.
I love Plushenko's crazy out of control seeming landed near perfectly jumps - it adds to his already enormous charism and just the security one has when watching him skate. He was a fabulous competitor - perhaps ovescored but I can't think of time when scoring him more appropriately (meaning less) would have changed the outcome, and I do wish him all the best with this surgery.
I think it must be obvious from my posts that I prefer the more full package skater - the spins, the footwork, the whole nine-yards; and at least in the OLympic year, Plushy's programs seemed kind of empty to me. BUT that doesn't mean I can't appreciate what an amazing competitor he was and enjoy his talent - it was impressive. Joubert is clearly trying - imo - to walk in those shoes (skate in those skates, whatever) and so, for me, it would be interesting to see Plushy back in the mix at full steam to see where it takes the pack (joubert and all). Whether he can come back full steam given the knees is something we'll just have to wait and see about.
I think it must be obvious from my posts that I prefer the more full package skater - the spins, the footwork, the whole nine-yards; and at least in the OLympic year, Plushy's programs seemed kind of empty to me. BUT that doesn't mean I can't appreciate what an amazing competitor he was and enjoy his talent - it was impressive. Joubert is clearly trying - imo - to walk in those shoes (skate in those skates, whatever) and so, for me, it would be interesting to see Plushy back in the mix at full steam to see where it takes the pack (joubert and all). Whether he can come back full steam given the knees is something we'll just have to wait and see about.
I stand corrected! I believe Yagudin left Mishin because he thought Mishin showed favortism to Plushenko IIRC! Every jump Yagudin performed for Olympic Gold was in place under Mishin's tutelage. At that same Olympics, Plushenko's silver was achieved as the result of a rare, nasty fall in the SP. Under the 6-point system it was practically impossible to end up with an Olympic silver with a serious fall in the SP combination (P's included a quad). If my memory isn't faulty, Tarasova did not want Yagudin to participate in the World's immediately after his Olympic win, but he did so and won the gold. So, indeed, Yagudin's Olympic win was certainly no fluke. I do believe, however, that Plushenko did withdraw from that 2002 World's due to injury and more than redeemed himself at the following Olympic by winning gold with hardly a close score in sight! (Stranger yet is that Yagudin never won the Russian National's. Suppose there was such a thing as politics involved?!?)
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- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
Since I love performing sidewalk analysis on others, my two bits on Yagudin/Mishin/Tarasova and Plusehnko/Mishin.
I think there was a pseduo father/son relationship between Mishin and his two star pupils. Yagudin as the elder (jealous of the doting attention his younger sibling was receiving) began rebelling against dad and acting out in inappropriate ways. It fell to younger, favored son Plushenko to show unquestioning loyalty (which he certainly did).
Basically, Yagudin had had enough male firmness and wanted some female leniency which he found in Tarasova. In one interview he referred to her as a 'typical Russian granny' which said a lot. Where Mishin was demanding and unyielding, Tarasova was permissive and forgiving (though fully capable of ripping him a new one when he needed it).
Yagudin had all the jumps by the time he left Mishin and was boring as dishwater to watch. It was only with Tarasova that he became a great all round skater.
Plushenko, I don't think ever really has. He absolutely won in Turin in both SP and LP but even his biggest fans were excited by his winning and not by any particular aspect of his actual performances which were workmanlike and uninspired.
If I were a 6.0 judge, I would have had him first in both SP and LP but I enjoyed Weir's SP more (a lot) and about six other men's LPs more.
As for his potential comeback. All in all I had the impression that as the years ticked off, Plushenko was having to give up more and more non-jumping elements in order to keep the jumps (which also were beginning to fray a little, the salchow had actually become a problem jump for him).
I think show skating is really the better option for him at this point, he doesn't need as much jump content and can let some expression out (look at how much more interesting his Turin exhibition was in comparison with the competition).
If he comes back and is as overmarked as he was in Turin twice (I'll give the judges a pass on his first competition) I'll be seriously bummed.
I think there was a pseduo father/son relationship between Mishin and his two star pupils. Yagudin as the elder (jealous of the doting attention his younger sibling was receiving) began rebelling against dad and acting out in inappropriate ways. It fell to younger, favored son Plushenko to show unquestioning loyalty (which he certainly did).
Basically, Yagudin had had enough male firmness and wanted some female leniency which he found in Tarasova. In one interview he referred to her as a 'typical Russian granny' which said a lot. Where Mishin was demanding and unyielding, Tarasova was permissive and forgiving (though fully capable of ripping him a new one when he needed it).
Yagudin had all the jumps by the time he left Mishin and was boring as dishwater to watch. It was only with Tarasova that he became a great all round skater.
Plushenko, I don't think ever really has. He absolutely won in Turin in both SP and LP but even his biggest fans were excited by his winning and not by any particular aspect of his actual performances which were workmanlike and uninspired.
If I were a 6.0 judge, I would have had him first in both SP and LP but I enjoyed Weir's SP more (a lot) and about six other men's LPs more.
As for his potential comeback. All in all I had the impression that as the years ticked off, Plushenko was having to give up more and more non-jumping elements in order to keep the jumps (which also were beginning to fray a little, the salchow had actually become a problem jump for him).
I think show skating is really the better option for him at this point, he doesn't need as much jump content and can let some expression out (look at how much more interesting his Turin exhibition was in comparison with the competition).
If he comes back and is as overmarked as he was in Turin twice (I'll give the judges a pass on his first competition) I'll be seriously bummed.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I really would like some officials to work on this. Without pointing the finger at any Federation, it is almost a standard rule to give higher scores: for sympathy; for for a favorite skater who botched the competion; for a returning favorite to ensure the podium if not gold.
I don't think this is done much with collusion but with some sort of mysticism, and should be stopped. Scores should be given equally and without prejudice.
Joe
The problem was that Tarasova was ill and uncertain if she could handle the rigors of a demanding trip to Asia at that time.
Alexei had a bit of post-Olympic letdown, she was missing practices, and it was he that said "I'm not going" to Nagano.
Eventually, it all worked out of course and he got his 4th world title.
Have to admit I continue to be surprised at how hard and how often fans come down on Plushenko when has been the most consistent eligible skater on the planet the entire last 4 years.
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And what's even more surprising is that the fans (or should I say haters?) keep judging him only by his Olympic performances ! Why? Why not Euopeans 2000, the whole 2001 season, GPF 2003, Worlds 2004, GPF 2004, Russian Nationals 2004 etc?
Re. his jumps, indeed Evgeni's jumps have deterriorated starting with 2003, probably due to injuries but prior to this, his jumps were absolutely superb!
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Nitpicking of champions is a summer past time on skating forums. Remember Lambiel's 3A?
I think this past summer was not Plushenko's skating but his getting over scored at the Olys which really wasn't his fault. No one said he didn't deserve to win and I think all posters are hoping the surgery is successful.
Joe
I think this past summer was not Plushenko's skating but his getting over scored at the Olys which really wasn't his fault. No one said he didn't deserve to win and I think all posters are hoping the surgery is successful.
Joe
No way. Plushenko always was far the best in RN.
And in some completely hypothetical parallel universe...if those two were ever again to meet at a Russian Nationals...much as I like both skaters, I might have to root for Evgeni to win, because his wins generally brought Alexei "good luck" for the remainder of the season (barring that 2001/2002 season)!
And in some completely hypothetical parallel universe...if those two were ever again to meet at a Russian Nationals...much as I like both skaters, I might have to root for Evgeni to win, because his wins generally brought Alexei "good luck" for the remainder of the season (barring that 2001/2002 season)!
i really love Zhenya but i think Alexei will be always the best, there's something special in his skating!
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
Loved the sidewalk analysis but i always thought Yags suffered from the middle child syndrome. He was perpetually looking up to eldest brother Urmanov and in his shadow and when Urmanov became too injured, Yags did not get the full attention he expected from Mishin but had to share it with Pluschenko.
Ant
Look at his 2006 Euro with standing ovation after LP when his exhibition was less interesting in comparison with the competition and i think his COI program this year was uninteresting. He may be fantastic and he may be boring but when he is on he is Simply The Best because no one skater has (had) such qualities. I don't care about his last year but i hope he will do good job next season.
And look at fsvids rating.
Good luck? I don't think so. 1998-1999 Plush won his first National title but he was a boy. 1999-2000 Plushenko won everithing exept stupid LP at World. And Alexey won with very poor skating. Yes, it was "good luck"
. 2000-2001 Plushenko won everithing.Yagudin's "good luck" GPF2001 and Euro2002 was only politics, sorry.
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- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
I forgot (or more likely never knew) that. It doesn't change the basic dynamic between M/Y/P it just makes his resentment of the unexpected, cuter younger brother that much more bitter, sort of like Jan Brady's memorable explosion "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!" ... (which meant of course 'Hey, pay some attention to _ME_!"
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I would be curious to know some more details about the politics involved. Did Mishin suddely become less powrerful politically when Plushenko came on board?
Are you saying that team Plushenko had more political clout in the Russian Federation (so they gave him a lot of national championships), but team Yugudin had the political upper hand with other European federations (so they gave him Europeans and the GP finals)?
Who would benefit politically by having Yagudin rather than Plushenko as the 2000 World Champion?
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