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Torgashev looks to be directed towards juniors, though Torgashev comes before Pulkinen as alt for Worlds. Krasnojon, on the other hand, is the only alt for 4CC
2019-20 U.S. Men's Figure Skating
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Torgashev looks to be directed towards juniors, though Torgashev comes before Pulkinen as alt for Worlds. Krasnojon, on the other hand, is the only alt for 4CC
The list for 4CC and worlds looks like it was composed based on personal favoritism rather then what happened on ice. As if it was complied before the competition even started. Overall a pretty big slap in the face to Hiwatashi (especially) Torgashev and Krasnozhon.
Vincent has too much of a history of under rotations and has little to no competition experience this season at all. He's there because of last year's world Bronze fine, but they should have insisted he do 4CC first as a test. International judges won't be so kind on the jumps. Pulkinen shows great promise but he is wildly inconsistent as nationals showed. He was a favorite for podium and couldn't get it done. He couldn't even be clean in the free when he had nothing left to lose. To me his naming to 4CC is just a sign of flat out favoritism and the worst thing about that list.
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While I won't go too far sideways since this is the Men's thread, Cain/Leduc's choice probably had more to do with how they will be seeded at Worlds. They are the only US pair in the top 10. C/J need more experience and USFS is giving it to them. And Cain/Leduc struggled here but they are lovely skaters. No one 'beat the snot' out of anyone.
Agreed.
Nathan and Jason skate at the highest level in figure skating. Not just in this country, but in the world. Yet, figure skating is so unimportant to NBC that even at that level a skater doesn't get shown. Imagine a performance by Hanyu being interrupted in Japan for something non-urgent.
But the issue here that really gets to me is how NBC restricts access to streams and blocks other sources that would provide viewing of nationals. So they get rights to show figure skating, provide limited coverage, greatly restrict access to viewing, and then fail to deliver. So then when they fail there aren't alternatives to turn to, heck if there were alternatives I wouldn't even be watching NBC to begin with. Thank goodness for VPN and ISU live streams.
At least they posted the videos on twitter, but still they ruined the fun of watching a live competition and they took something away from very accomplished, hard working athletes and the viewers/skaters that wanted to watch them.
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- Jan 28, 2013
I retract "beat the snot out of." It's unnecessarily harsh.
I'll go with "a resounding result" beating Ashley and Tim by about 18 in the FS, about 16 overall.
I didn't say Ashley and Tim weren't lovely skaters. They are. And they haven't really delivered this year. You might say Jessica and Brian haven't either, but I think they did manage a 4th on the GP, and that's certainly no worse than the others. They're a team on the rise. No real need to hold them back.
The world and 4CC team lists in all diciplines look like they were mainly put together before nationals, after the GP series, with some very minor adjustments after nationals.
"Body of work" has come to completely dominate their thought process and nationals results is becoming less and less of a factor and we just have to accept that
I’m surprised Vincent got named to the World team without having to go to 4CCs since he hasn’t competed this season. Vincent may be the reigning world bronze medalist but Tomoki is the reigning world junior champion and has a habit of peaking at Worlds. I think he would have been chosen if he had made more of a splash this year on the GP circuit. Ah well good luck at 4CCs - go and collect all the ranking points!!
I really don't understand Krasnozhon being left off the 4CC team in favor of Camden. Alex has had a slow start to his season, but he has been on an upward trajectory and showed improvement at nats. I love Camden's skating, but there is 0 sign of his consistency improving.
I wonder if Camden had placed 3rd and Vincent 4th would the USFSA still have named Vincent to worlds or would they have simply gone with the podium? Him being named to 4CC over Krasnozhon despite his history of inconsistency pretty much shows you just how much they personally like him.
That kind of makes you feel worse for Hiwatashi
That kind of makes you feel worse for Hiwatashi
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- Jan 28, 2013
The world and 4CC team lists in all diciplines look like they were mainly put together before nationals, after the GP series, with some very minor adjustments after nationals.
"Body of work" has come to completely dominate their thought process and nationals results is becoming less and less of a factor and we just have to accept that
I get the concept of BOW. But that mindset negates the possibility of a star quickly rising, peaking at just the right moment, filled with confidence and ready to make a mark on the world stage. And replacing that with a timid committee, shivering in anxiety, afraid of stirring the pot.
It's the antithesis to a BOLD daring approach to sport, denying the athlete the spoils of victory... giving the real power in the sport to sniveling weaklings in smokey back rooms.
No wonder USFSA is struggling to attract and keep fans. They deserve every ounce of their difficulties. What a poorly run organization.
Ashley & Tim are currently the only U.S. pair in the Top 10 in world rankings — thanks to their solid win at Zagreb last month & the early Challenger win in a strong field that included the #2 Russians. Their GP season wasn’t great, but internationally they are still the #1 U.S. pair.
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Good for them.
And in the most important and prestigious event of the year so far, one they themselves touted as being a major goal and yardstick for success, they finished a weak 4th.
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"Body of work" has come to completely dominate their thought process and nationals results is becoming less and less of a factor and we just have to accept that
I kind of disagree that we have to accept it. At least, I don't agree that we have to accept it passively and silently.
I suppose if they want to be fair they need to start using the Russian method (how weird it is to say that
). Make them have a skate off at 4CC and then name the teams. It will at least make the final USFSA decision look more fair and less ugly then what they are doing now. Pulkinen over Krasnozhon for 4CC just looks nasty considering neither one is all that consistent. It just shows favoritism plays a huge role in naming the team and not accomplishment
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- Jan 28, 2013
I suppose if they want to be fair they need to start using the Russian method (how weird it is to say that
Pulkinen over Krasnozhon for 4CC just looks nasty considering neither one is all that consistent. It just shows favoritism plays a huge role in naming the team and not accomplishment
I realize I get passionate about this.
I'm a former athlete, and I am against initiatives that takes power from the athletes and gives it to non-competing officials.
One day, when I'm running USFSA, and I SHOULD be running it, here's my statement to athletes:
"Congratulations on making it to the National Championship! And the best of luck to each and every one of you. Important world competitions are on the horizon, and if you want to be on those teams, you better skate like it. You are the real stars of our sport, and I can think of no one who could better decide our national teams than you. You'll do that on the field of battle. Make us proud!"
Edit: Choosing Camden over Alex is just strange. I like them both, but how did they get to this? Maybe Alex was offered and turned it down?
I feel like skate offs at a major international comp also wouldn't always work. 4cc is less than two weeks after nationals and is all the way in South Korea. Most of the US men would have trained to peak for nationals and then they would have to come down and peak again in very little time with jet lag. That kind of scenario favors a seasoned competitor, not an upstart.
I hope they send Tomoki to a senior B if he wants it.
I hope they send Tomoki to a senior B if he wants it.
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4CC should have been Tomoki/Vincent/Torgashev. If Torgashev want to focus to JW then Alexei and Camden as alt 1.
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Uhhhh Jason?
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- Nov 4, 2019
These assignments are... strange.
I can rationalize choosing Vincent for the world team: World bronze medalist, higher world ranking, higher scoring ceiling, and has more international reputation.
(I understand it but I have a soft spot for Tomoki and I really wanted to see him in Montreal....)
What I'm having issues with is the 4CC assignments. It really should be Andrew going. I don't buy that it was due to junior camp since Tomoki did both the junior camp and 4CC last year. If not Andrew then it should have been Alex. Going all the way down to Camden seems really awkward. I love Camden and he has shown flashes of brilliance (and he has the higher SB) but he's no less inconsistent as Alex. I suppose Alex could have turned down the opportunity though I don't see why he would (ETA: actually no Alex is an alternate so he definitely didn't turn it down).
I mean it's not as questionable as the pairs assignments but I do feel bad for Tomoki and Alex.
I can rationalize choosing Vincent for the world team: World bronze medalist, higher world ranking, higher scoring ceiling, and has more international reputation.
(I understand it but I have a soft spot for Tomoki and I really wanted to see him in Montreal....)
What I'm having issues with is the 4CC assignments. It really should be Andrew going. I don't buy that it was due to junior camp since Tomoki did both the junior camp and 4CC last year. If not Andrew then it should have been Alex. Going all the way down to Camden seems really awkward. I love Camden and he has shown flashes of brilliance (and he has the higher SB) but he's no less inconsistent as Alex. I suppose Alex could have turned down the opportunity though I don't see why he would (ETA: actually no Alex is an alternate so he definitely didn't turn it down).
I mean it's not as questionable as the pairs assignments but I do feel bad for Tomoki and Alex.
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- Jan 27, 2020
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. Rationalizing team assignments this way leads to self-fulfilling prophecies. Because someone was good (or more like it, scored highly) last year doesn't mean they're good skaters now. (Remember Zagitova, the reigning Olympic champion? 'Nuff said.) If we go by past results, why bother to hold Nationals at all? It's a competition. Vincent wasn't injured. If he lost training time, it was entirely his choice, and other skaters shouldn't have to pay for it. Tomoki was the better skater today, so he should go to Worlds. End of story. I've had it to my EYEBALLS with the USFSA always picking their little pet favorites and snubbing those who skate their hearts out only to be left back home. It's skating at its ugliest.
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