Mirai stunned Japanese fans -> Do you like Michelle Kwan?

[blue dog]

Good lord you know I love the Kween but can't we have a thread about someone else for a change and not bring Michelle into it. Why is it necessary to bring negativity regarding Michelle into this thread? Last time I looked the thread title said Mirai not Michelle.

Yes. And on that note,

I like Mirai, but I don't like her short. It's not as expressive as I think she could be. Perhaps jazz isn't her style?

 

[sorcerer]

I almost thought, "... poor Mirai, once again she's left aside, last time in a TV interview in the States, this time on a US forum, even in a thread that was supposed to be dedicated to you" ... but now it seems at last things are getting on the way.

Up till present, the only thing Mirai might have profitted being Japanese as well as American seems IMO to be that she has a skater of her ideal (Mao) who simply happened to be of the same root as her, and Mirai might take a bit of unconscious pride in that to keep up her motivation, but that's about all.

But from now on, the coming situation where the JSF may welcome her ANYTIME (to fill its weaker age zone) would be very advantageous for Mirai even while she's with the USFSA, IMO.

 

[slutskayafan21]

If Cop was in place for 2004 worlds, Ando should've beaten MK.
If Cop was in place for 2005 US nats, KM should've beaten MK.

Even with the most difficult 3-3 or a 3A, it's not enough to beat MK under 6.0 system. Isn't it too hard for ambitious youngsters to keep their motivations.

I don't think even Mao could've beaten MK by the 6.0 rule.
Yuna is obviously out of quetion.

At 2004 Worlds Ando did complete overall much harder jumps then Kwan or Cohen, and did not make any real mistake (unless you count doubling out of the quad salchow) where Cohen had a few small ones, and Kwan doubled her 2nd triple lutz. However the jumps were not as strong as she has done before, alot of them were pitched forward and a wild on the landings. Not the best quality jumps for someone who relied almost entirely on her jumps back then. Her spins, footwork, choreography, posture, polish, musical interpretation, were all miles behind all of Arakawa, Cohen, and Kwan.

The only crime was that Cohen took any votes ahead of Arakawa that particular night. I found it very obvious the order that nights free skate portion alone was - 1)Arakawa, 2)Kwan, 3)Cohen, and was very surprised at the split among all 3 so much to begin with, but imparticular there was such a distinctive division between Arakawa's stunning performance that night and Cohen's tenative flawed one for me anyway, that I have no idea how any judge placed Cohen over Arakawa imparticular. Ando being robbed never came into mind for me. After seeing the others I thought she would probably need to land the quad sal to medal, and she didnt, and the overall performance wasnt her best aside from that.

As for the 2005 Nationals, you have to be kidding. Meissner was only a 4th place skater at the World juniors that year. At junior level competition she was not anywhere near the league of Asada and Kim that year, even with her best effort (to give you an accurate estimate on my behalf, I would say she was atleast twice as far behind them then as she is now). Kwan's marks for her free skate at the 2005 Nationals were a bit of a joke I agree,and I actually felt sad for that since tainted farcial 6.0s like the one for her free skate that night take away some of the credability of the many possibly warranted 6.0s she has gotten at U.S Nationals. However Meissner was not even close to beating her, yeah she landed an ugly and cheated triple axel, but the rest of her skating was strictly that of a very good junior skater. She never would have made the podium that year without that triple axel so she certainly was rewarded for it nonetheless, as without it she is inferior to Liang and Kirk that year IMHO.

 

[ElFuego]

I don't know most of names on ElFuego's post.

Well. That was my point.

I think the time has changed for US ladies. During the MK era, many talents are wasted by blatant favoritism of 6.0 system.

It has nothing to do with the "Kwan era." My argument is that novice and junior championships aren't an indicator of senior success. So you haven't heard of those names. Those wouldn't be the new talents. They'd be the old ones... the ones who HAD won medals in the 6.0 system, the ones the judges would have been familiar with, the ones they had seen winning at previous Nationals.

Look at it backwards: Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, Jennifer Kirk, Angela Nikodinov, Tara Lipinski, Nicole Bobek, Tonia Kwiatkowski, Nancy Kerrigan, Tonya Harding, Kristi Yamaguchi, Debi Thomas, Caryn Kadavy, Tiffany Chin, Linda Fratianne... you recognize these names right? NONE of them were Junior Ladies Champions. NONE of them were novice ladies champions. ALL of them won at least one medal at the senior level. (Kristi Yamaguchi was junior PAIRS champion, though).

It feels like people are combing through club competitions, YouTube vids, looking for the youngest little jumpers, the most precocious artists, so that they can say, "That's the ONE. That's the one who is going to be the next Olympic Champion." And odds are, no. She's not. And odds are, they just missed watching some pretty cool skating from a bunch of other skaters. And what's the point? Are they people who are actually interested in figure skating? Or are they people who are just racing to be able to say, "I saw her first."

Why put that kind of pressure on a 13 year old? I'd so much rather to say to someone, "I really enjoyed your skating today -- that's a great program and you were totally on with the jumpss," than "You are so good, I bet you win the Olympics some day." Because with the first, that's praise for something they've already accomplished. With the second, it's making them think that if they don't stay on track to win the Olympics, they will have accomplished nothing.

 

[fml99]

I'd agree that Caroline Zhang has gotten more press overall than Mirai, but as mentioned, CZ has had more years of successful competitions up until this year's Nationals.

But in any event, it may work to Mirai's advantage to not be the sole focus of media attention amongst the US ladies. Think of the immense pressure that would be, especially at this age!

 

[blue dog]

Why put that kind of pressure on a 13 year old? I'd so much rather to say to someone, "I really enjoyed your skating today -- that's a great program and you were totally on with the jumpss," than "You are so good, I bet you win the Olympics some day." Because with the first, that's praise for something they've already accomplished. With the second, it's making them think that if they don't stay on track to win the Olympics, they will have accomplished nothing.

I wish we could all adopt this attitude. Really--I feel like we crucify skaters if they don't measure up. Jenny Kirk was billed as the next Tara when she won Jr Worlds--did not happen.
There was a girl named Elizabeth Kwon who won intermediates and they were saying she would be the next one (I think that had more to do with her last name sounding similar to Kwan than anything) and she ended up retiring. As did Ann-Patrice McDonough, Jessica Mills...

And this isn't unique to the US. The Russian girls who swept Junior Worlds, or Tracy Wilson, being a 14 year old selected to go to 1980 worlds ahead of the national champion!

Let's not do that to Mirai, Caroline, Kristine, or any other little girl who has big dreams. I, for one, don't want to be responsible for crushing someone's dreams.

 

[sorcerer]

... so that they can say, "That's the ONE. That's the one who is going to be the next Olympic Champion." And odds are, no. She's not.
... I'd so much rather to say to someone, "I really enjoyed your skating today -- that's a great program and you were totally on with the jumpss," than "You are so good, I bet you win the Olympics some day." Because with the first, that's praise for something they've already accomplished. With the second, it's making them think that if they don't stay on track to win the Olympics, they will have accomplished nothing.

1. You can't keep Mirai or anyone ambitious from dreaming to go to the Olympic Games, or stop anyone saying such a wish.
Well Mirai does say so, then let's hope for her to be so.

2. What you wrote is beautiful, ethical, and right; but steals away some part of fun if it is applied to forums like this.
I would recommend getting excited as much as you wish, as long as you don't say it out loud to the skater.

 

[rutinia]

It has nothing to do with the "Kwan era.".

It has everything to do with the Kwan era. In short, they didn't need any new talents and real competitions. New bloods make changes, and that is something abominable for Kwan's dominance. She has no progress since the age of 16.
If the top skater was that conservative (or low potential), we cant expect any developments. Again and again, same contents with different music and choreographies for eight years!
I said SC was lucky. She's kind of attractive looking, but not much better than Kirk or Nikodinov. Even they can contribute to the "three spots mission" if they are appointed as the second skater.

 

[Mathman]

I would recommend getting excited as much as you wish, as long as you don't say it out loud to the skater.

Go Mirai!

Now all we have to do is keep her away from the Internet for 3 years, so she won't know how many fans she has.

 

[antmanb]

I don't know most of names on ElFuego's post.

I think the time has changed for US ladies. During the MK era, many talents are wasted by blatant favoritism of 6.0 system.
Look at 2005 US nationals. MK with flawed jumps still wins Kimmie Meissner with a 3A! That wont happen now. New talents have chances to enter the world team with good consistency and difficulty.

Ahem...would that be the triple axel that landed a half turn short...isn't that a flawed jump??
Ant

 

[antmanb]

In old days, their priority was "how to let MK win". Bringing up young skaters was the back burner. Rather excluding REAL competitions is more common.
Now the focal point is "how to challenge Mao". As you know, the current senior US ladies are not up for the task, and discovering and training new talents has become the key. Mirai's Japanese heritage could be advantageous for this purpose. There is no denying that MK was the obstacle for the development of this sport.

Yes there is! Most people have denied your spurious claim! Please give details of which young skaters you feel were prevented from developping because of MK's reign at US nationals...it certainly wasn't Tara Lipinski and it certainly wasn't sarah hughes...who are you talking about?

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Well. That was my point.



It has nothing to do with the "Kwan era." My argument is that novice and junior championships aren't an indicator of senior success. So you haven't heard of those names. Those wouldn't be the new talents. They'd be the old ones... the ones who HAD won medals in the 6.0 system, the ones the judges would have been familiar with, the ones they had seen winning at previous Nationals.

Look at it backwards: Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, Jennifer Kirk, Angela Nikodinov, Tara Lipinski, Nicole Bobek, Tonia Kwiatkowski, Nancy Kerrigan, Tonya Harding, Kristi Yamaguchi, Debi Thomas, Caryn Kadavy, Tiffany Chin, Linda Fratianne... you recognize these names right? NONE of them were Junior Ladies Champions. NONE of them were novice ladies champions. ALL of them won at least one medal at the senior level. (Kristi Yamaguchi was junior PAIRS champion, though).

It feels like people are combing through club competitions, YouTube vids, looking for the youngest little jumpers, the most precocious artists, so that they can say, "That's the ONE. That's the one who is going to be the next Olympic Champion." And odds are, no. She's not. And odds are, they just missed watching some pretty cool skating from a bunch of other skaters. And what's the point? Are they people who are actually interested in figure skating? Or are they people who are just racing to be able to say, "I saw her first."

Why put that kind of pressure on a 13 year old? I'd so much rather to say to someone, "I really enjoyed your skating today -- that's a great program and you were totally on with the jumpss," than "You are so good, I bet you win the Olympics some day." Because with the first, that's praise for something they've already accomplished. With the second, it's making them think that if they don't stay on track to win the Olympics, they will have accomplished nothing.

What a perfect post! I couldn't agree more. Some people seem waaaaay too obsessed with being the cllairvoyant predictor of the winner of the Olympics years from now.

Ant

 

[rutinia]

The dark ages of MK dominance is over. What will change?

The USFSA can't afford to waste young talents anymore. Real competitions set in even at US nationals. Since the de facto standard is set by Mao Asada, "they" can't favor good looks and "beautiful spirals" just for entertainments. Only skaters with great jumps and flexibility can survive. Junior skaters are what "their" desperate hopes are laid on. I don't know US Jr nationals was as much publicized as this year before. Caroline and Mirai (or even Flatt) were considered saviours of US figure skating. They can't escape pressure.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Oh well, it is only Summer talk. Those posters wont even remember writing these notes during the competition season.

Further more, I doubt Mirai's mother will allow her to read forum talk and Mirai herself wouldn't want to read them.

I sometimes think that posters have this grandiose notion that their comments in forums are reaching judges, coaches, skaters and not just other fans, and that these comments have a direct effect on the outcome of a competition. My, how important we are.

 

[Mathman]

^ :agree: :yes:

 

[visaliakid]

I sometimes think that posters have this grandiose notion that their comments in forums are reaching judges, coaches, skaters and not just other fans, and that these comments have a direct effect on the outcome of a competition. My, how important we are.

You nailed it right on the head Joe!

 

[Mathman]

And anyway, these old biddies Mirai and Caroline are just dragging the sport down, standing in the way of Dee Dee Leng.

 

[blue dog]

*Prays to skate gods*

Please deliver these skaters from the posters. Amen.

 

[bekalc]

I see no issue with us being excited about young stars. It's not like these girls are getting that much press or are being hounded by the media. And well the downside for Mirai if she wants to go to the Japanese federation is the "opportunity to be stalked by the Japanese media."

I suspect that the young girls want to skate at the Olympics and at worlds, and they want to be the next big thing. If they want to be the next big thing. Mirai and Caroline or whoever will have to get use to pressure and hype. At least now it's coming in doses that they can adjust too.

 

[sorcerer]

In this thread the only mention to the Olympic games are
1. Quotes of Mirai herself, of wishing to go there (not winning).
2. kittyjake5's one line saying ".. but I am sure by the time the 2010 Olympic season is here she will be a CONTENDER for gold." ... I don't think at all that kittyjake fits the antmanb's mention about "obsessed with being the cllairvoyant predictor of the winner of the Olympics".

So why the big worry?
If I were Mirai, I'd be unhappy instead to see everyone mushing up this thread with MK and blah blah blah.
Of course there is a tiny possibility that Mirai likes mushed postatoes.