- Joined
- Jan 14, 2020
What does this statement refer to, please?
2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2019
It's very funny how never anything is done by TGD, especially by T and G
But wait, if Rozanov was her coach, does he take blame for "unsuccessful season" for Sasha?
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2020
It's very funny how never anything is done by TGD, especially by T and G
But wait, if Rozanov was her coach, does he take blame for "unsuccessful season" for Sasha?
Frankly, I would be completely indifferent to that. I just wanted to correct your statement.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2019
TT is, sorry everyone else but ET, DG, and SD and not Rozanov, Zhelezhniakov or Layshev and Aksenov
TT thinks they are the best in the business and don't take kindly when anybody acts like they aren't.
Rozanov has nothing to do with it.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2019
That’s the thing, after reading the article it made a lot more sense to me, that’s why I shared it
with my initial shock of “Why Plushenko?”, after reading this article I have a better understanding of why he wanted to move, and why Sasha moved with him.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2020
TT is, sorry everyone else but ET, DG, and SD and not Rozanov, Zhelezhniakov or Layshev and Aksenov
TT thinks they are the best in the business and don't take kindly when anybody acts like they aren't.
Rozanov has nothing to do with it.
Oh, and I had forgotten a smiley.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
Well, if they do think like this I‘m sorry to say it‘s rather simple minded. People are more complex than that and if Sasha needs something different at this point in her career, it‘s not an insult. It‘s just the way it is. See it more like this:
Before Team Tutberidze was the best coaching team for her but now she‘s reached a point where another environment will be better. For her. As a person. As an individual.
This whole line of thinking that one team will fit every single athlete at every single point of their career because they‘re “the best“ fails as soon as we realize we‘re talking about human beings. This is not just about the best “equipment“. Emotions are more complex than that, skaters are more complex than that.
So, no, there is literally no reason for Team Tutberidze to be harsh to their athletes once they leave. They can be hurt, sure, and there often will be conflicts but then they have to choose how much they want to reveal to the public. Sasha is literally still a child, a 15-year old girl. For Daniil to complain in their interview how she wasn‘t answering their calls when they already had everything settled with their parents is just so uncalled for. I‘d say we should all prepare for not so subtle, passive-aggressive snark about her in interviews from Tutberidze and co. in the next two years. I wish her good luck. She‘s got a good head on her shoulders. Others have gone through it before and so will she.
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2019
And the drama continues. Apparently Rozanov did an interview and said that he didn’t like Daniil’s choreo and that he didn’t like the music choices for Daria Usacheva. I guess he also said that Kamila’s short had too many leg kicks for his liking too. I don’t have a link or anything, this is all from people talking about it on twitter.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2017
Evgenia does get one to one training time with Orser & Tracy Wilson. X number of times a week. All the seniors at TCC get that, including Jason Brown, Cha Jun Hwan .
There's of course group training sessions, either with one coach or all coaches.
Rafael I think explained this better cos he knows both systems. In North America, the student gets 45 min one on one time with say Rafael, then trains on his own.
Rafael said its cause coaches are paid per hour. If the coaches train/ supervises the student so many hours a day like in Russia then its very expensive. So Rafael teaches his students how to train on their own & gave example of how Nathan is able to train on his own while at Yale.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2019
Have you ever worked with somebody who considers himself/herself best in the region? let alone country or the world.
My friend once was literally told by our, visibly upset coach "where are you going, have you found somebody better than me?"
I really doubt that anybody has ever came to Eteri and said line similar to "Look, I know you are the best in the world and did so much for me, but I think it no longer works for me"
I don't know about Alexandra's case, but in case of most well known transfers I am fairly sure it didn't happen.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2019
Isn't it from article at Business-Gazeta?
If so, take it with grain of salt, that website is well known for having writers with wild imagination
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2018
If that's the case, then I think I know what Rozanov's username is on GS:hap57:
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
" Plyushchenko will never be a coach. But jackals are also needed. "
Another version of why Aleksandra Trusova left Eteri Tutberidze
The well-known psychologist Vadim Gushchin, MD, an expert of “Sports Day after Day” told what threatens the 15-year-old Aleksandra Trusova's change of coach.
Tutberidze's group does not consider losses
“For big sports, such a transfer is more likely the norm than an anomaly,” says Gushchin. - Transfers are normal. In Soviet times there were “top” coaches, then they went to them. The same for Trusova, Tutberidze is not her first coach. The coach, who taught her the first steps and how to jump, Aleksandr Volkov, now works at Plyushchenko's. It was from this same person that she left for Tutberidze. And he did not speak very flattering about her.
It is normal that an athlete in technical sports passes from the hands of one coach into the hands of another. Some teach jumping, stage technique, others “bring to mind” - these are the "cutters". Tutberidze is a cutter, she is like Stanislav Zhuk, Tat'yana Tarasova. She does not work with "raw" material, only with ready-made skaters. Yevgeniy Plyushchenko's statements on this subject to Tutberidze are ridiculous. Plyushchenko knows that Mishin was not his first coach either.
- Trusova left “from Tutberidze”, and not “to Plyushchenko?”
- In the Tutberidze group there is hellish competition, the toughest in the country. Echelons of talented girls are coming. And, accordingly, as in the time of Zhuk during the CSKA's peak in hockey, they do not consider losses there. The strongest survives. And this strongest individual becomes the champion. From the point of view of sport, this is fair. From the point of view of life, it is unpleasant, painful, and hurts. There are many complaints about the Tutberidze group precisely because the girls are used to being prims there.
- Trusova was a prima.
- She could not stand this competition. Her sports career was not progressing - there were ups and downs. At some point, Trusova was ahead of Shcherbakova, Kostornaya. She was the World Champion among Juniors, was the best. But this is not a guarantee that you will continue to move by leaps and bounds. Then the competitors went around her. What does a person who has been bypassed feel? There is a parable about the promised happiness: if fate promised, let it fulfill. Fate provides opportunities, nothing more. But no one explains this to the girls. That life develops in such a way that we must fight, rise, fight.
In parallel, sports “jackals” enter the stage. They spot this promising athlete, the athlete is about to "drop off." You do not have such an athlete yourself, but you really want to get them. In tennis, Patrick Muratoglu is famous for being able to spot the person who will be the face of his academy. He did not raise Serena Williams, Stefan Tsitsipas. But took them under his wing, they glorify his school.
- Plyushchenko, if you are referring to him, he says: Trusova, they say, she came to me herself, I had nothing to do with it.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... That's what he will tell. This is about jackals. They do not write her a letter: "Come to us." This is ridiculous, it doesn’t work like that. Well, just at some meeting: I look, girl, you feel bad, now if you were with us ... Where will the girl go? There, where there will be a prima. At Tutberidze, she was not prima, it hurt her. You know, such a psychological moment: not the singular one, they do not pay me due attention. It was the same with Zhenya Medvyedeva. Where Trusova goes, they promise her: here you will be the first, everything will revolve around you. Plyushchenko will provide this.
- Competition.
- Well yes. In the sports world, it transfer season, just like in the political arena. There is a state - it is called Tutberidze. I would like to appear in a new state by the name of Plyushchenko. He is not coach but a manager. What is he doing? Recruiting staff: I picked up some coaches, took someone from Tutberidze's staff. There is also grouping, a social struggle: someone is pulling ahead, someone is losing influence. Again, the coach wants to develop himself. He goes to where he is promised benefits, they say: here you canl do what you want, and not what they tell you to do.
And it’s good for sports. Before, I used the word “jackals”, I believe that the transition to Plyushchenko's gives Trusova new chances. Because what if she with these coaches will find what she is looking for? But these chances are like a roulette. But Tutberidze correctly stated: those who left me all fell. This is also a medical fact. Because so far the Tutberidze group is the best in the world. Trusova left, but behind her - a whole train of girls who were born later and jump already what Trusova considered a great achievement. With the departure of Trusova, Tutberidze lost a fighter, but did not lose either an army, a plan campaign, nor lost sight of her goals.
Good managerial decision
- Is she doing the right thing?
- She will be stabbed once more. The girl decided that she would be better off with other coaches. The normal reaction of the girl. True, for tennis players, figure skaters it is a difficult period right now. They do not always have such margins of safety as Federer. There are one or two good years when you compete at your peak. And in figure skating, one year by today's measure is half your life. Everyone is in a hurry. Trusova must understand: with Plyushchenko group there is no such competition as she had in the group of Tutberidze. Which is better - fierce competition or its absence?
- Plyushchenko is far from a cutter.
- Plyushchenko was never and ever will be a coach. A great athlete is not a ready made coach. All the best coaches in all sports were never great athletes, they were average athletes, not stars. Plyushchenko is a figure skating superstar. He will never be a great coach. Trainers, those are Zhuk, Tarasova, Chaikovskaya. They weren't great skaters. Outstanding athletes do not make coaches. They can be managers: they know how to organise. Our soccer players must go to managers, to team leaders, to children's coaches. And they are immediately given elite troops and wait for these troops to march.
- A skater at the age of 15 leaves her trainer. At the same age earlier in time, cooperation was just beginning.
- Sport, on the one hand, deprives you of your childhood, on the other hand, it teaches you to make decisions. There is no family nearby, you are always at some training camp, you spend more time at the rink than at home. In the best case scenario, you come home to sleep. And so you live on easy-get-ready meals, feed yourself with a spoon, unless they get something for you. Usually a person begins to compete at 20 years, when he gets a job. An athlete begins to compete at the age of 12. He makes a decision, fights. Decision, will, character - this is what sport gives you. Trusova, Zagitova, Medvyedeva, all have this. They understand that everything is fleeting. Five to seven years - and you'll be put out to pasture.
- But the skaters move alongside their coaches.
- This is already long gone! Everything is broken. When a person moves with the same trainer, this is an exception. When you're playing for the same club, continue living in the same place, this is also an exception. Trusova left Tutberidze because she wants to win. She considers herself special. It is these who become champions. But this, I repeat, is a roulette. Having won her first turn, Trusova may lose in the next. With Plyushchenko there are no such conditions for growth as in the Tutberidze group.
- But the fact that Plyushchenko’s group exists is good in itself
- Plyushchenko - well done how he organises the coaching staff, attracts people with a name. Good managerial decision. There should be stars in the school, others will try to equal them, this will create excitement. Plyushchenko takes Trusova not for her own cause, but for his Academy. Aleksandra Trusova made a choice. And now it’s not known: either you lose your horse, or you’ll lose your head, or you will find a beautiful groom. There are no beaten paths to success.
-----
From: https://www.sportsdaily.ru/articles...ed:+sportsdaily+(Газета+«Спорт+день+за+днем»)
Removed some philosophic stuff about soccer
Another version of why Aleksandra Trusova left Eteri Tutberidze
The well-known psychologist Vadim Gushchin, MD, an expert of “Sports Day after Day” told what threatens the 15-year-old Aleksandra Trusova's change of coach.
Tutberidze's group does not consider losses
“For big sports, such a transfer is more likely the norm than an anomaly,” says Gushchin. - Transfers are normal. In Soviet times there were “top” coaches, then they went to them. The same for Trusova, Tutberidze is not her first coach. The coach, who taught her the first steps and how to jump, Aleksandr Volkov, now works at Plyushchenko's. It was from this same person that she left for Tutberidze. And he did not speak very flattering about her.
It is normal that an athlete in technical sports passes from the hands of one coach into the hands of another. Some teach jumping, stage technique, others “bring to mind” - these are the "cutters". Tutberidze is a cutter, she is like Stanislav Zhuk, Tat'yana Tarasova. She does not work with "raw" material, only with ready-made skaters. Yevgeniy Plyushchenko's statements on this subject to Tutberidze are ridiculous. Plyushchenko knows that Mishin was not his first coach either.
- Trusova left “from Tutberidze”, and not “to Plyushchenko?”
- In the Tutberidze group there is hellish competition, the toughest in the country. Echelons of talented girls are coming. And, accordingly, as in the time of Zhuk during the CSKA's peak in hockey, they do not consider losses there. The strongest survives. And this strongest individual becomes the champion. From the point of view of sport, this is fair. From the point of view of life, it is unpleasant, painful, and hurts. There are many complaints about the Tutberidze group precisely because the girls are used to being prims there.
- Trusova was a prima.
- She could not stand this competition. Her sports career was not progressing - there were ups and downs. At some point, Trusova was ahead of Shcherbakova, Kostornaya. She was the World Champion among Juniors, was the best. But this is not a guarantee that you will continue to move by leaps and bounds. Then the competitors went around her. What does a person who has been bypassed feel? There is a parable about the promised happiness: if fate promised, let it fulfill. Fate provides opportunities, nothing more. But no one explains this to the girls. That life develops in such a way that we must fight, rise, fight.
In parallel, sports “jackals” enter the stage. They spot this promising athlete, the athlete is about to "drop off." You do not have such an athlete yourself, but you really want to get them. In tennis, Patrick Muratoglu is famous for being able to spot the person who will be the face of his academy. He did not raise Serena Williams, Stefan Tsitsipas. But took them under his wing, they glorify his school.
- Plyushchenko, if you are referring to him, he says: Trusova, they say, she came to me herself, I had nothing to do with it.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... That's what he will tell. This is about jackals. They do not write her a letter: "Come to us." This is ridiculous, it doesn’t work like that. Well, just at some meeting: I look, girl, you feel bad, now if you were with us ... Where will the girl go? There, where there will be a prima. At Tutberidze, she was not prima, it hurt her. You know, such a psychological moment: not the singular one, they do not pay me due attention. It was the same with Zhenya Medvyedeva. Where Trusova goes, they promise her: here you will be the first, everything will revolve around you. Plyushchenko will provide this.
- Competition.
- Well yes. In the sports world, it transfer season, just like in the political arena. There is a state - it is called Tutberidze. I would like to appear in a new state by the name of Plyushchenko. He is not coach but a manager. What is he doing? Recruiting staff: I picked up some coaches, took someone from Tutberidze's staff. There is also grouping, a social struggle: someone is pulling ahead, someone is losing influence. Again, the coach wants to develop himself. He goes to where he is promised benefits, they say: here you canl do what you want, and not what they tell you to do.
And it’s good for sports. Before, I used the word “jackals”, I believe that the transition to Plyushchenko's gives Trusova new chances. Because what if she with these coaches will find what she is looking for? But these chances are like a roulette. But Tutberidze correctly stated: those who left me all fell. This is also a medical fact. Because so far the Tutberidze group is the best in the world. Trusova left, but behind her - a whole train of girls who were born later and jump already what Trusova considered a great achievement. With the departure of Trusova, Tutberidze lost a fighter, but did not lose either an army, a plan campaign, nor lost sight of her goals.
Good managerial decision
- Is she doing the right thing?
- She will be stabbed once more. The girl decided that she would be better off with other coaches. The normal reaction of the girl. True, for tennis players, figure skaters it is a difficult period right now. They do not always have such margins of safety as Federer. There are one or two good years when you compete at your peak. And in figure skating, one year by today's measure is half your life. Everyone is in a hurry. Trusova must understand: with Plyushchenko group there is no such competition as she had in the group of Tutberidze. Which is better - fierce competition or its absence?
- Plyushchenko is far from a cutter.
- Plyushchenko was never and ever will be a coach. A great athlete is not a ready made coach. All the best coaches in all sports were never great athletes, they were average athletes, not stars. Plyushchenko is a figure skating superstar. He will never be a great coach. Trainers, those are Zhuk, Tarasova, Chaikovskaya. They weren't great skaters. Outstanding athletes do not make coaches. They can be managers: they know how to organise. Our soccer players must go to managers, to team leaders, to children's coaches. And they are immediately given elite troops and wait for these troops to march.
- A skater at the age of 15 leaves her trainer. At the same age earlier in time, cooperation was just beginning.
- Sport, on the one hand, deprives you of your childhood, on the other hand, it teaches you to make decisions. There is no family nearby, you are always at some training camp, you spend more time at the rink than at home. In the best case scenario, you come home to sleep. And so you live on easy-get-ready meals, feed yourself with a spoon, unless they get something for you. Usually a person begins to compete at 20 years, when he gets a job. An athlete begins to compete at the age of 12. He makes a decision, fights. Decision, will, character - this is what sport gives you. Trusova, Zagitova, Medvyedeva, all have this. They understand that everything is fleeting. Five to seven years - and you'll be put out to pasture.
- But the skaters move alongside their coaches.
- This is already long gone! Everything is broken. When a person moves with the same trainer, this is an exception. When you're playing for the same club, continue living in the same place, this is also an exception. Trusova left Tutberidze because she wants to win. She considers herself special. It is these who become champions. But this, I repeat, is a roulette. Having won her first turn, Trusova may lose in the next. With Plyushchenko there are no such conditions for growth as in the Tutberidze group.
- But the fact that Plyushchenko’s group exists is good in itself
- Plyushchenko - well done how he organises the coaching staff, attracts people with a name. Good managerial decision. There should be stars in the school, others will try to equal them, this will create excitement. Plyushchenko takes Trusova not for her own cause, but for his Academy. Aleksandra Trusova made a choice. And now it’s not known: either you lose your horse, or you’ll lose your head, or you will find a beautiful groom. There are no beaten paths to success.
-----
From: https://www.sportsdaily.ru/articles...ed:+sportsdaily+(Газета+«Спорт+день+за+днем»)
Removed some philosophic stuff about soccer
- Joined
- May 28, 2019
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
I mean, they have other skaters, though. No one coaches only one skater. The other skaters may not be on the same level yet but we don't know that they will never get there. For example, when Alena joined the team, she wasn't a direct competitor, she was 9th (IIRC) at Russian junior nationals. Now she has caught up to and surpassed the Olympic champion. At the same time, there are many other skaters in that group who are nowhere close to that level even with the same training environment. It's not like a coaching team can do anything about it; no one knew what would happen when they accepted mediocre skaters at the time.
The competition for spots could be avoided by not training more than one skater from the same country, but I don't think that's feasible for Russia. The coaches are not paid an enormous sum from the individuals they train, correct me if I'm wrong. They're paid by the state. It would be an enormous risk to take only one skater - in the example of Alina: a 12 year old who had only -3Lo - and focus all your time on them. I don't know if that would be possible, what the salary for that coach would be, or what would happen if things don't work out and that skater leaves.
And then there is the question of what happens to the thousands of elite skaters who would need coaches? We all saw junior nationals and there aren't even enough coaches for all of the competitors to have their own coaches, let alone the hundreds of undiscovered talents. If some of the articles are to be believed, someone as established and talented as Sasha had 3 choices, and not all of them accepted. I believe there are other Russian female skaters in Plushenko's group, so Sasha is not the only Russian skater there. And we already know Zhilina left with Rozanov, so there are already 2 talented quad jumpers (Sasha + Veronika) in that training camp and they haven't even started training yet. I think it's incredibly unrealistic for any female skater training in Russia to expect that they will be the top skater and have undivided attention on them. Nothing wrong with wanting, just not really possible.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
More words of wisdom from a person who has experienced the same:
Viktoriya Sinitsina: “ The most difficult thing when moving to another coach is to tell them and not feel guilty. Many people think that you have betrayed someone. ”
Russian figure skater Viktoriya Sinitsina talked about how an athlete feels when moving to another coach.
“ Why do people change jobs? Something does not satisfy them, they want something more, they want to discover something inside themselves. It happens that you do not like the team, do not like the attitude. Everyone wants to live to the maximum, achieve everything in life.
The most difficult thing about the transition? The tell it and not feel guilty. This is a huge stress, you are worried. Many people think that you betrayed someone. But this isn't from evil, it comes from your soul, sometimes you just feel that way. A person can make a mistake, make the wrong choice. But do not judge him for it. It’s hard, it’s a very complicated process, ” said Sinitsina in a Sports.ru instagram Live
Viktoriya Sinitsina: “ The most difficult thing when moving to another coach is to tell them and not feel guilty. Many people think that you have betrayed someone. ”
Russian figure skater Viktoriya Sinitsina talked about how an athlete feels when moving to another coach.
“ Why do people change jobs? Something does not satisfy them, they want something more, they want to discover something inside themselves. It happens that you do not like the team, do not like the attitude. Everyone wants to live to the maximum, achieve everything in life.
The most difficult thing about the transition? The tell it and not feel guilty. This is a huge stress, you are worried. Many people think that you betrayed someone. But this isn't from evil, it comes from your soul, sometimes you just feel that way. A person can make a mistake, make the wrong choice. But do not judge him for it. It’s hard, it’s a very complicated process, ” said Sinitsina in a Sports.ru instagram Live
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2020
That's what this "psychologist" named Gushchin should think about.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2018
I don’t dispute anything you have said. I will reiterate my previous comment. MOST coaches will not train two athletes who are in direct competition with one another and if they do they will likely not be from the same country. Most famous coaches will have one MAIN athlete in each division and will aim not to disrupt this by accepting others at their level. What happens when juniors come up through the ranks is all up to fate and they themselves may make the decision to switch coaches. Or in the TT example the senior skater will eventually leave to find their new spot as the main athlete in that division for another coach. I’m not sharing an opinion here I’m just saying what happens in this sport. The exception being TT having Anna and Alena in direct competition, but how long that will last nobody knows.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
Gushchin I thought was referencing mainly soccer players and tennis professionals, male adult athletes, he may have experience with in counselling.
But his general reference to the process of transfer, the motivation behind it and the risks involved are valid and worth exploring in this case.
Re-reading and putting some small edits in, I suddenly remembered the transfer of Kanysheva, which if my memory serves me, went precisely the same. A promise as a lure.
Plus, in a posting in the other thread, I think in the case of Eteri Georgiyevna, a formidable and intimidating personage, who Aleksandra has nevertheless admired and adored, must have making yourself go and tell her in person almost feel like walking to the gallows.
Still, when emotions have subsided, I think Aleksandra will bring Tutberidze flowers as parting gift
She is too good a character and raised as a person not to be thankful over what has been achieved under Eteri's tutelage. Even when Aleksandra doesn't want to face Eteri alone, her parents should give her a gentle push before stepping back. A purgatory moment, which will bring everybody great relief, provide closure and allow them to move on free from shame.
