2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 1179 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

I've already written before, that it will be a progress if Sahsa will suddenly no longer be a "mindless jumping machine" :biggrin:

I think I am in a minority of one of this issue. I hope Sasha keeps on being a little jumping machine. I hope she does 4 quads and a triple Axel in her LP next year. (Well, anyway 3 quads and a triple Axel -- I'm not so sure about the quad flip.) As for program components, she's just fine as she is. She can win the Olympics with 9.0s even if someone else ballets their way to 9.5s. Higher, faster, stronger!
 
I think I am in a minority of one of this issue. I hope Sasha keeps on being a little jumping machine. I hope she does 4 quads and a triple Axel in her LP next year. (Well, anyway 3 quads and a triple Axel -- I'm not so sure about the quad flip.) As for program components, she's just fine as she is. She can win the Olympics with 9.0s even if someone else ballets their way to 9.5s. Higher, faster, stronger!

For years I was dissapointed that Ladies didn't even try to learn 3A or other harder jumps (with very few exceptions). It was one of the reason the discipline was boring me a little. I am now over the moon with all these Ladies jumping 3A and quads! So yeah, count me in for Sasha staying the jumping machine. Bring it on girl! (but stay healthy :pray: )
 
I think I am in a minority of one of this issue. I hope Sasha keeps on being a little jumping machine. I hope she does 4 quads and a triple Axel in her LP next year. (Well, anyway 3 quads and a triple Axel -- I'm not so sure about the quad flip.) As for program components, she's just fine as she is. She can win the Olympics with 9.0s even if someone else ballets their way to 9.5s. Higher, faster, stronger!

During this season Sahsa's highest component in the free skate* was 8.61 for skating skills at Europans, lowest was 7.75 for transitions at GPF. Only four times she has received 8.50 or higher for any component during the season. If she would improve to 9.0 in two seasons, than it would mean Rozanov has truly done his work :biggrin:

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*I've briefly checked SP and mostly the marks are the same or even lower in the SP with the exception of the Europeans, where all components were between 8.50-8.64.
 
Because in the US, many places are opening up again (whether this is right or wrong) if you can limit the amount of people. Like keep the total under 10 and maintain 6 feet apart. I’d imagine that this would be harder to do for a public rink as how do you decide who is allowed. But a private rink might be able to give access to a few priority skaters.
Problem is that these particular skaters train in Moscow and Moscow is the hardest hit in terms of COVID (just as expected). There are places in Russia where the coronavirus situation is better that are starting to open up gradually, I don't know about skating rinks though.
 
During this season Sahsa's highest component in the free skate* was 8.61 for skating skills at Europans, lowest was 7.75 for transitions at GPF. Only four times she has received 8.50 or higher for any component during the season. If she would improve to 9.0 in two seasons, than it would mean Rozanov has truly done his work :biggrin:

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*I've briefly checked SP and mostly the marks are the same or even lower in the SP with the exception of the Europeans, where all components were between 8.50-8.64.

Those are the marks she got when she was an Eteri girl which also included the hype of her senior debut after great junior success and very big political backing from the federation as well.

The hype won't be there because it will be her second senior season and she's coming off what some might view as a somewhat underwhelming debut season. And is she going to get the same political backing as a Plushenko girl? She's going from a coach who the federation has total trust in to one who is unproven and mainly hyped for his own personal achievements, not his students so I'm not sure. Only time will tell how the story ends
 
I think I am in a minority of one of this issue. I hope Sasha keeps on being a little jumping machine.
Minority maybe, but you are not alone. For my part I have to confess that I even like her kind off skate. Very personally speaking, I do not find these worse than those of their competitors. It's just different and corresponds to her kind and her claim. But I usually reserve that for me, as it only leads to meaningless endless discussions. ^_^
 
And is she going to get the same political backing as a Plushenko girl? She's going from a coach who the federation has total trust in to one who is unproven and mainly hyped for his own personal achievements, not his students so I'm not sure.

RusFed is not a single-minded entity; there have always been different camps, and some still hate Eteri with all their hearts for ruining the sweet arrangements they had between different schools, so in domestic competitions it will depend on which camp the judges/tech panel would be from.
 
So far, the majority of the 'turncoats' are the ones that hated Sasha's guts, called her a 'robot', blamed her for 'ruining ladies figure skating', etc - as soon as Sasha switched to Plyushenko, she suddenly became the 'brightest star of the Russian fs scene' to these folks :laugh2:

if you're asking me, then just visit Sasha's thread on fso - you'll be amazed how many Eteri/Sasha-haters became Sasha's most ardent supporters recently :biggrin:


I'm so glad you clarified that no one on Goldenskate said that and that you aren't laughing at anything that someone said here:agree: I have enough problems keeping up here, I could care less what people say on other forums:laugh:

And of course @Mathman hit the nail on the head: if someone liked Sasha when she skated for Eteri, but is no longer a fan because she switched to Plushenko, that person was never a Sasha fan to begin with. I love skaters and I follow the skater, and my favorite coach is whoever is coaching my favorite skaters:clap:
 
RusFed is not a single-minded entity; there have always been different camps, and some still hate Eteri with all their hearts for ruining the sweet arrangements they had between different schools, so in domestic competitions it will depend on which camp the judges/tech panel would be from.

And in Moscow, the lower ranked competitions are under judiciary mostly belonging to the CSKA column. Here, 'loyal' judging is often observed, and coordinated efforts to keep an unaffiliated skater like Sultanmagomedova from the junior team and getting a CSKA skater with lower overall results in.
 
Probably a good rule of thumb to be a fan of the skater and a fan of the coach but to do it in a way that keeps them separate from each other.

For example I am not a fan of Morozov but I am a fan of several of his skaters. If a skater I love goes to him I'm not going to throw up my hands and say I am no longer a fan. If a skater I didn't like leaves him I'm not suddenly going to become a fan of that skater just because I don't like Morozov but that skater leaving sticks it him.

I am a fan of Brian Orser but when Yuna left him I didn't suddenly think Yuna had betrayed him. I figured that the relationship had run it's course and she needed a change and I hoped she would be happy and that Orser would also be happy
 
Egor Rukhin has switched from Tutberidze to Plushenko, as probably part of that group of skaters who were working with Rozanov most of the time.

Is Alexei Urmanov still coaching?

Yes he's still in Sochi.

He coaches Milana Ramashova from Belarus, she did well at Junior Worlds few months ago.
 
During this season Sahsa's highest component in the free skate* was 8.61 for skating skills at Europans, lowest was 7.75 for transitions at GPF. Only four times she has received 8.50 or higher for any component during the season. If she would improve to 9.0 in two seasons, than it would mean Rozanov has truly done his work.

I think that all of Alexandra, Anna and even Aliona were held down somewhat in PCSs. This being their first senior season, I think that there was a sort of "pay your dues" thing going on with the judging. Alexandra got consistently in the mid 8s even so. I would not regard it as a miracle if her components rose a half-point as the judges come to regard her skating as "more mature," even if she still earns her bread-and-butter from her jumps.

Plus, there is nothing like skating cleanly, landing everything, and avoiding mistakes to make your PCSs rise. We'll see.
 
I think that all of Alexandra, Anna and even Aliona were held down somewhat in PCSs. This being their first senior season, I think that there was a sort of "pay your dues" thing going on with the judging. Alexandra got consistently in the mid 8s even so. I would not regard it as a miracle if her components rose a half-point as the judges come to regard her skating as "more mature," even if she still earns her bread-and-butter from her jumps.

Plus, there is nothing like skating cleanly, landing everything, and avoiding mistakes to make your PCSs rise. We'll see.

It's happened... I totally don't agree with something you said. I'm feeling strangely weirded out by this.

PCS is such a subjective thing.
 
Plus, there is nothing like skating cleanly, landing everything, and avoiding mistakes to make your PCSs rise. We'll see.

This was proved by Boyang, Samarin, Nathan etc. I can see it happen. Judges like hard content clean performances.
 
Probably a good rule of thumb to be a fan of the skater and a fan of the coach but to do it in a way that keeps them separate from each other.

For example I am not a fan of Morozov but I am a fan of several of his skaters. If a skater I love goes to him I'm not going to throw up my hands and say I am no longer a fan. If a skater I didn't like leaves him I'm not suddenly going to become a fan of that skater just because I don't like Morozov but that skater leaving sticks it him.

I am a fan of Brian Orser but when Yuna left him I didn't suddenly think Yuna had betrayed him. I figured that the relationship had run it's course and she needed a change and I hoped she would be happy and that Orser would also be happy

I agree with this. The divisiveness over coaches is sometimes confusing for me. I think changing coaches is smart, healthy, maybe even necessary for a long term skating career. In some cases. Not every method of coaching works for every skater just like every method of teaching or parenting works for every child. And what worked for a skater as a child may not work for them as a teenager or an adult.

Kimmie Meisner discussed that exact problem in her TSL interview. After she turned 16 she wanted to be treated differently. Frank Carroll talked about Michelle Kwan leaving him in his TSL interview. To paraphrase what he said - 'Michelle was probably tired of hearing the same thing over and over, day after day, year after year, and needed a change. It was a way to keep things fresh and reinvent herself as a skater.' Makes sense to me.

Michael Weiss had been with Audrey Weissinger (I know I spelled it wrong) his entire career. For years. They were close. He ended up changing coaches. He explained it as 'eventually you just stop hearing what they are saying.' (something like that)

Some people can stay with a coach for (most of) their entire career and it is the perfect fit. See Mishin, Tuk & Plushy. A coach may be a perfect fit but you need a change of environment. (Virtue & Moir after Sochi). That was how I felt about Evgenia's move to Brian Orser. She came to Eteri at 8. I know there are a lot of factors that went into her decision, but take all of that away for one minute. All. Of. It. Now imagine you spend your entire student career in your third grade classroom with your third grade teacher all the way through high school. You now have a chance to go away to college. Speaking only for myself, for that reason alone, I'm out of there. Especially if that college is the equivalent of a top rated university by any definition. With a proven track record of past and current champions.

I think Brian Orser adapts his coaching methods to his students. I'm basing this on the commentary I heard during the Sochi Olympics. He said that he doesn't coach Javi and Yuzu the same way. Sometimes he has to yell at Javi. He would never do that to Yuzu. (this isn't criticism of either skater. Love them both. I'm sure Yuzu doesn't need to be yelled at. Javi is my favorite men's skater, but I can totally see yelling at him occasionally. I say this with love.)

People are motivated in different ways by different emotional stimulus. Some need to be challenged, some need to be encouraged or coaxed. Most people need both in different situations on different days.

Now some coaches are just straight up problematic. Morozov has coached and choreographed several skaters. I have enjoyed the performances of those skaters. If I heard that Alina was going to New Jersey to work with Morozov I would not be happy. I don't care if it was just to create a new footwork sequence for Cleopatra. (Just an example) Even though I think Morozov could knock it out of the park choreographically. I would honestly prefer that Alina never skate again than work with him, just based on what I read in Adam Rippon's autobiography.

All that said, I would love to see Alina spread her wings and move to Rafael Aryutunian. Absolutely nothing against Eteri. Nothing at all. I just love Raf. When I used to watch skating with my mom, she had a crush on him :love:. For that alone I will always have a soft spot for him. Mom was a huge Michelle Kwan fan.

All of this is just my opinion. Not facts. I'm not looking for an argument, or to reignite controversy, or old drama, by naming coaches and skaters. I just wanted to give reasons for the way I feel.
 
Here? haven't seen any of Sasha's fans do that; neither on fso.

I wouldn't call those her fans anyways....

It blows either way, but I guess I can agree with the posters before about it being better if they started liking her lol.

*****

It might end up with Plushenko eating his words for sure. We'll just have to wait and see. I'm skeptical about it too. It's confusing.
 
I agree with this. The divisiveness over coaches is sometimes confusing for me. I think changing coaches is smart, healthy, maybe even necessary for a long term skating career. In some cases. Not every method of coaching works for every skater just like every method of teaching or parenting works for every child. And what worked for a skater as a child may not work for them as a teenager or an adult.

Kimmie Meisner discussed that exact problem in her TSL interview. After she turned 16 she wanted to be treated differently. Frank Carroll talked about Michelle Kwan leaving him in his TSL interview. To paraphrase what he said - 'Michelle was probably tired of hearing the same thing over and over, day after day, year after year, and needed a change. It was a way to keep things fresh and reinvent herself as a skater.' Makes sense to me.

Michael Weiss had been with Audrey Weissinger (I know I spelled it wrong) his entire career. For years. They were close. He ended up changing coaches. He explained it as 'eventually you just stop hearing what they are saying.' (something like that)

Some people can stay with a coach for (most of) their entire career and it is the perfect fit. See Mishin, Tuk & Plushy. A coach may be a perfect fit but you need a change of environment. (Virtue & Moir after Sochi). That was how I felt about Evgenia's move to Brian Orser. She came to Eteri at 8. I know there are a lot of factors that went into her decision, but take all of that away for one minute. All. Of. It. Now imagine you spend your entire student career in your third grade classroom with your third grade teacher all the way through high school. You now have a chance to go away to college. Speaking only for myself, for that reason alone, I'm out of there. Especially if that college is the equivalent of a top rated university by any definition. With a proven track record of past and current champions.

I think Brian Orser adapts his coaching methods to his students. I'm basing this on the commentary I heard during the Sochi Olympics. He said that he doesn't coach Javi and Yuzu the same way. Sometimes he has to yell at Javi. He would never do that to Yuzu. (this isn't criticism of either skater. Love them both. I'm sure Yuzu doesn't need to be yelled at. Javi is my favorite men's skater, but I can totally see yelling at him occasionally. I say this with love.)

People are motivated in different ways by different emotional stimulus. Some need to be challenged, some need to be encouraged or coaxed. Most people need both in different situations on different days.

Now some coaches are just straight up problematic. Morozov has coached and choreographed several skaters. I have enjoyed the performances of those skaters. If I heard that Alina was going to New Jersey to work with Morozov I would not be happy. I don't care if it was just to create a new footwork sequence for Cleopatra. (Just an example) Even though I think Morozov could knock it out of the park choreographically. I would honestly prefer that Alina never skate again than work with him, just based on what I read in Adam Rippon's autobiography.

All that said, I would love to see Alina spread her wings and move to Rafael Aryutunian. Absolutely nothing against Eteri. Nothing at all. I just love Raf. When I used to watch skating with my mom, she had a crush on him :love:. For that alone I will always have a soft spot for him. Mom was a huge Michelle Kwan fan.

All of this is just my opinion. Not facts. I'm not looking for an argument, or to reignite controversy, or old drama, by naming coaches and skaters. I just wanted to give reasons for the way I feel.

Finley, i love reading your posts! you are always very thoughtful and fair and i appreciate that as a fellow poster :agree:
 
Finley, i love reading your posts! you are always very thoughtful and fair and i appreciate that as a fellow poster :agree:

Thank you for this. :pray: That's not always the feedback that I've been given for posting here, so I really appreciate it. :thank:
 
Well I think loosing Kostyleva and Zhilina are bigger blows to Eteri's team than loosing Trusova. Just staying. I could be kind of expected that 3 best skaters in the world couldn't stay in one team. And please not Petrosyan, too. I really hope she will stay with Eteri...

I don't even see how that could be remotely true. Both of those girls have not even debuted in juniors and probably won't be winning any major medals soon. you also don't even know how well they are going to keep their jumps or be injury free in the future. Trusova is a girl that if she fixes her mental state and gains something close to Medvedeva's old consistency levels she will beat all Eteri's remaining girls and the rest of the world every competition next season.
 
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