2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[nussnacker]

I’m not going to defend any skater with a full blade assist. It is what it is. I think it is something that has been missing along with pre-rotation being called. When they say toe axel I’m pretty certain they are referring to jumping into a toe jump forward instead of backward like you are suppose to. At the lower levels when you learn your single toe loop you are told it can not be a toe waltz, this means a toe loop with a full blade assist and excessive pre-rotation so it is essentially a waltz jump with a different entry. There are some lovely examples of skaters who don’t have a full blade assist on toe jumps and minimal pre-rotation so it is doable and I think it should be the standard all skaters aspire to.

Oh, it’s perfectly fine, I’m just discussing the technicalities of definitions. It’s doable on triples, but I don’t think quads are the same. A lot of power is needed to get up in the air for a 4T, hence all men (from what I’ve seen) who perform it put their blade very very low.

 

[renebaebae]

Well... those are not the same things. Quite frankly then it would mean anyone, including skaters like Boyang Jin, would get a full blade assist mark on their 4T. I don’t even think it’s possible to pick for a 4T with your blade staying high, correct me if I’m wrong. But from what I can see that’s not quite their definition of full blade assist though, since they are talking specifically about toe-axels there, and not toes in general.

I‘m not completely sure, but I think they didn’t have a definition of cheated take off in singles part of the guideline before, the definition was only mentioned in the pairs part of the guideline. If that’s the case (since I’m speaking from memory), then it would mean they just copied and slightly altered the rule from pairs, since it was missing in singles.

It is very possible to pick in a 4T with your blade staying high. Boyang definitely doesn't have a full blade assist on his quad toe. Many men have a toe pick on 4T actually. If people aren't able to pick with their toe picks on a toe jump with is the way it's supposed to be done, then they should get points deducted for it for having a cheated or poor take off

 

[nussnacker]

That is an interesting observation, though. If it is harder to spring into the air off the toe-pick, and easier to muscle your way up from a full blade, then maybe skaters should get more points if they do it "right" and fewer points if the they do it "wrong."

The whole idea of the code of points is to give the most points for th hardest jump. If it turned out that a true toe-pick 4T is impossible, well, that gives skaters something to aim for.

True.

 

[laybackrelaxspinfast]

Oh, it’s perfectly fine, I’m just discussing the technicalities of definitions. It’s doable on triples, but I don’t think quads are the same. A lot of power is needed to get up in the air for a 4T, hence all men (from what I’ve seen) who perform it put their blade very very low.

What about Yuzu? I do think if they choose to apply the rule, which I highly doubt they will, the biggest impact will be felt on the scoring of lutz and flip. I think there will be an allowance on most toe loops because so many skaters have horrible technique on them. But honestly it’s a horrible jump so I don’t blame them!

 

[dhjh811]

Petrosyan is leaving Eteri too? Can someone confirm??

 

[nussnacker]

It is very possible to pick in a 4T with your blade staying high. Boyang definitely doesn't have a full blade assist on his quad toe. Many men have a toe pick on 4T actually. If people aren't able to pick with their toe picks on a toe jump with is the way it's supposed to be done, then they should get points deducted for it for having a cheated or poor take off

Oh, I agree, I don’t think 4T blade assist should even be a thing. 4T is the jump that I would say has the least issue with that in general.

 

[nussnacker]

What about Yuzu? I do think if they choose to apply the rule, which I highly doubt they will, the biggest impact will be felt on the scoring or lutz and flip. I think there will be an allowance on most toe loops because so many skaters have horrible technique on them. But honestly it’s a horrible jump so I don’t blame them!

His blade is also placed low imo, although a little higher than that of Boyang. He’s the reason why I don’t even think it’s humanely possible to place a blade as high as people can on triples. his 4T is the best in the game!

 

[Good Vibes Only]

Petrosyan is leaving Eteri too? Can someone confirm??

I was wondering the same thing, but I am not seeing any sources for her leaving. I guess it is still unconfirmed, but it wouldn’t surprise me if she did. Rozanov probably coached her more than Eteri did because she was only a novice.

 

[laybackrelaxspinfast]

His blade is also placed low imo, although a little higher than that of Boyang. He’s the reason why I don’t even think it’s humanely possible to place a blade as high as people can on triples. his 4T is the best in the game!

I do definitely think there will be some wiggle room for toe loops if they use the rule, but I can imagine those currently abusing the pre-rotation and full blade assist in their triples will be given negative GOE because it’s not comparable when the best in the world are performing near perfect quad toes.

 

[macy]

can we not discuss the new rules here please? i know there was a thread about technique somewhere, can we move the discussion there?

i would rather stick on the topic of the lovely Russian ladies instead of things that are an invitation for some posters to start bashing and arguing

 

[nussnacker]

can we not discuss the new rules here please? i know there was a thread about technique somewhere, can we move the discussion there?

i would rather stick on the topic of the lovely Russian ladies instead of things that are an invitation for some posters to start bashing and arguments

Sure, sorry

 

[macy]

Sure, sorry

no its ok, i just know those topics are a very slippery slope with strong opinions for many.

 

[macy]

Petrosyan is leaving Eteri too? Can someone confirm??

not sure where you saw, but TSL tweeted she is leaving and Rukhin is going to CSKA. they did not say where Petrosyan is going, but i'd assume with Rozanov. no sources thus far.

 

[Edwin]

Nice interview with accomplished rhythmic gymnast Aleksandra Soldatova, who follows figure skating. Here is the figure skating part.

- Rhythmic gymnastics is the same sport for young people as female figure skating. Do you follow figure skating?

- Yes, of course, I follow. I communicate with Alina Zagitova. With Zhenya Medvyedeva less often, but also. I watch, I am a fan of the girls.

- And how do you like Sasha Trusova’s transition to Plyushchenko?

- I was just in shock when I heard about Trusova’s departure from Tutberidze. Just in shock. In that group, everyone was so strong, and my sympathies are on the side of Kostornaya from those who are now skating. I cheer for her the most.

- You didn't want to go into figure skating? Never thought of that?

- No, I somehow immediately got into rhythmic gymnastics, so thoughts of other sports disappeared (laughs).

- And what about figure skating?

- I like the fact that it is very beautiful. Actually, I just adore Yuzuru Hanyu.

- He's cosmic in general.

- Aha! Just goosebumps, I can’t help myself. I have one program that I even saved to my phone. I've rewatched it ten times, I guess. And he impresses me not because he jumped all his jumps there, but because he did everything musically. It is simply impossible to watch, in a good way. How amazing he is and really just a skater from another planet. This is his short one under Di Blacio (under Otonal from Raul Di Blacio Hanyu skated the short program for the last two seasons, this musical theme in figure skating became popular in 1999, it was under this music that Mariya Butyrskaya became then the first World Champion in the history of our country).
-----
From: https://rsport.ria.ru/20200511/1571253980.html

 

[laybackrelaxspinfast]

can we not discuss the new rules here please? i know there was a thread about technique somewhere, can we move the discussion there?

i would rather stick on the topic of the lovely Russian ladies instead of things that are an invitation for some posters to start bashing and arguing

Sorry Macy you are 100% correct. I didn’t intend for it to become a big discussion, just wanted to share some new information.

 

[Scott512]

I agree with azkin that Veronika may be the biggest loss of all. We don't know how things are going to pan out through puberty and the coming years but she looks like the total package ever since she appeared on that ice age kids show. She already does triple axels and quads and should be able to keep them unless puberty is really bad for. She certainly I was one of the best novice girls ever and I guess we should not blame her or a family to want to go to a different Academy because her coach moved there.

Sasha is also a big loss especially if she becomes more consistent. Everything's great with her if she's winning gold medals. If she's not then there are problems. I hope it works out for her. But it is a gamble you might even say Sasha is playing Russian roulette with her career.

Young Sergei is getting a lot of EG skaters coming from sambo-70. Wouldn't it be funny if he got so many skaters from there that he didn't have time for all of them and we would hear the complaining about how he didn't give them enough attention?

 

[Fried]

Everything's great with her if she's winning gold medal. (...) If I hope it works out for her. But it is a gamble you might even say Sasha is playing Russian roulette with her career.

Well, I wouldn't find an 83% success rate that bad.

 

[Scott512]

Well, I wouldn't find an 83% success rate that bad.

I would take that success rate for sure in my career and . But it's obviously not a good enough success rate for Sasha. She is the elite of the elite.

 

[Tolstoj]

So lutz and flip now have the same BV and pre-rotation and full blade assists can be called to downgrade a jump. Not sure what this means for ladies skating until we see it in action, but all interesting developments.

I'm full pro deductions for full blade assists and prerotation as it was getting so ridiculous, you set coaches to teach a bad but more consistent technique by not penalizing it properly.

But i'm not super hot about lutz and flip having the same BV, we still see ladies struggling more with lutzes than flips.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

I would take that success rate for sure in my career and . But it's obviously not a good enough success rate for Sasha. She is the elite of the elite.

Things do not look good for Eteri. At the beginning of the season she had elite senior skaters like Trusova, Shcherbakova, Kostornaya and Zagitova, amazing junior skater like Valieva and amazing novice skaters like Akatyeva, Zhilina and Petrosyan. Now Trusova, Zhilina and Petrosyan are no longer in her team and Zagitova took a break for uncertain time.
Rozanov also left. What about Akatyeva?