2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Scott512]

I’m glad the girls themselves are finally speaking out about not liking the nicknames. Its disrespectful towards the skaters to not see them as individuals but only part of Team Eteri. Skating is about the skaters, not the coach or team.

It was never meant to be disrespectful and it's not. Of course they are individuals but some people think of them as a unit because they are so great so young and on the same team. Saucy got tired of that and bolted. It is what it is but no one was insulting them or decorating them in anyway by referring to them as 3A. There is a good chance we will never say three such skaters again at the same time in the same group with the same coach as they had it.

 

[flanker]

You are right that I conflated using "3A" with being part of Eteri's team, and that could be incorrect (particularly now that it is no longer true). These are three individual skaters, and they skate their very best to win gold for themselves, and for their country. They should be referred to as the individuals they are, and evidently that is what they prefer.

I'm not understanding part of this, however. Have I ever said that someone should or should not talk about coaches? Of course we will talk about coaches and whether we think they are good or bad. :scratch: But I stand by what I said that for me, skating is an individual sport. My favorite coach is whoever coaches my favorite skater And skaters, with rare team competition circumstances, are skating for individual gold. I will never be able to wrap my mind around anything else

According to the other comment, "skating is not about coach or team", which is obviously wrong. It is an important part of the whole sport and as that it was, is and will be discussed.

You shouldn't create the false reality in which people who ever used the abbreviation 3A or some other did it with disrespect towards skaters or didn't take them as individuals (in some amount many people did it whether they are fans or their counterparts of the skaters or their coaches). People can be fans of whatever or whoever they want to be. There is no law of nature saying "this sport is about this, but not about that." That does not exist, it is about what people want it to be about. And you can easily be a fan of a skater and fan of a team, for many reasons, style, type of the choreo, approach etc. That does not exclude respecting skaters as individualities and being fan of them.

To be honest I had the exact opposite impression, that those who are the exact opposite of the fans were taking the skaters "only as members of a particular team" (e.g. "only jumping beans", that was a popular and disrespectful term) for whatever reason and only when some skater leaves the team they are suddenly concerned about this or that skater's individuality.

As for the precise case of those three skaters, of course they are often talked together they train together, compete at the same competitions, they are seen together, they are compared against each other. And they represent completely new level of skating, different from everything that was here before. Even when it was used broadly, people still talked about the artistry of Kostornaia, jumps of Trusova or delicacy of Shcherbakova. So once again, just because people often used the abbreviation they shouldn't be scolded. After all, tghe recent comments about it are not raised by some specific comment, that could be erventually considered as disrespectful, this is just blanket ranting of the kind "those people are horrible".

 

[TallyT]

To be honest I had the exact opposite impression, that those who are the exact opposite of the fans were taking the skaters "only as members of a particular team" (e.g. "only jumping beans", that was a popular and disrespectful term) for whatever reason and only when some skater leaves the team they are suddenly concerned about this or that skater's individuality.

The thing was, from an outsider's point of view, not that the coach wasn't part of the equation but that the coach became the major element of the equation: it sometimes appears (especially during the Medvedeva kerfuffle and then Trusova's less fraught exit stage left) that a number of fans have elevated Tutberidze as the star and idol above her pupils and for those fans, the skaters' duty is to burnish her place in their pantheon. Which annoys the c*** out of people who believe coaches are there to do the burnishing thank you very much and it's mainly, even only, the one out there on the ice under all the hungry eyes who matters.

Me, I think neither is extreme is right, and the middle path is probably best. Tutberidze deserves lot of admiration and kudos as does three-OGM Brian, as do other coaches. As will Plushy if he does good by Trusova. But when the skaters begin to blur in the public gaze and just become #TeamWhatever, they are more than entitled to not care for it very much.

After all, in the history books, it will be Zagitova and Hanyu and Virtue/Moir and Dick Button and Plushenko-the-skater who will be inscribed most brilliantly, not Tutberidze and Orser and Marie-France Dubreuil and Gustave Lussi and Plushenko-the-coach, and that is IMHO as it should be.

 

[sparklestan]

I don’t think the 3A term is bad if used in the sense “oh the 3A swept Russian nationals so they’re going to euros” but I can see how the girls get frustrated when fans say “oh I hope 3A wins euros”. Since the girls are individuals and each one wants to win for herself and not the glory of the “3A”. I also bet it’s strange for them to skate out with banners waving saying “team 3A” and pictures of all the girls and their coaches. It seems like most other banners have just the one skater; say Nathan banners by Nathan fans, I have yet to see Raf on one of those banners.

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

Honestly I don't think there was any malicious intent behind the nickname, it was just easier for some fans to refer to them as 3A. Not just for those who didn't know quite how to spell Shcherbakova, but it was just a fun little abbreviation. But if the girls themselves don't like it then I guess we should just stick to their names.

It seems like "VUK" isn't quite as popular yet, some people doubt Maya and consider Daria and Kamila to be the ones that will snatch the Olympics but I'm sad that Kanysheva wasn't able to continue being a part of that junior generation, she would've been debuting in seniors this year. What a shame....well alas this is sport and some make it, others fall short .

 

[Amei]

According to the other comment, "skating is not about coach or team", which is obviously wrong. It is an important part of the whole sport and as that it was, is and will be discussed.

You shouldn't create the false reality in which people who ever used the abbreviation 3A or some other did it with disrespect towards skaters or didn't take them as individuals (in some amount many people did it whether they are fans or their counterparts of the skaters or their coaches). People can be fans of whatever or whoever they want to be. There is no law of nature saying "this sport is about this, but not about that." That does not exist, it is about what people want it to be about. And you can easily be a fan of a skater and fan of a team, for many reasons, style, type of the choreo, approach etc. That does not exclude respecting skaters as individualities and being fan of them.

To be honest I had the exact opposite impression, that those who are the exact opposite of the fans were taking the skaters "only as members of a particular team" (e.g. "only jumping beans", that was a popular and disrespectful term) for whatever reason and only when some skater leaves the team they are suddenly concerned about this or that skater's individuality.

As for the precise case of those three skaters, of course they are often talked together they train together, compete at the same competitions, they are seen together, they are compared against each other. And they represent completely new level of skating, different from everything that was here before. Even when it was used broadly, people still talked about the artistry of Kostornaia, jumps of Trusova or delicacy of Shcherbakova. So once again, just because people often used the abbreviation they shouldn't be scolded. After all, tghe recent comments about it are not raised by some specific comment, that could be erventually considered as disrespectful, this is just blanket ranting of the kind "those people are horrible".

Agree, I don't think there was anything intentionally disrespectful or malicious about the nickname when it was originally created/coined for the 3 skaters but at this point at least 1 skater* of that nickname has stated they don't like it, to continue to use it at least in reference to that skater would now be disrespectful to do.


*I don't remember if Trusova or Kostornaia have previously stated they don't like the nickname.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Agree, I don't think there was anything intentionally disrespectful or malicious about the nickname when it was originally created/coined for the 3 skaters but at this point at least 1 skater* of that nickname has stated they don't like it, to continue to use it at least in reference to that skater would now be disrespectful to do.


*I don't remember if Trusova or Kostornaia have previously stated they don't like the nickname.

We all acknowledge their individual differences and strengths, but we bring them up a lot as a group because of their dominance over everyone else (and that their own real competition is each other). For those reasons, I think it's not a big deal to use it. Otherwise we continuously have to type "the top three senior Russian women" or something as lengthy every time we refer to them.

 

[el henry]

According to the other comment, "skating is not about coach or team", which is obviously wrong. It is an important part of the whole sport and as that it was, is and will be discussed.

You shouldn't create the false reality in which people who ever used the abbreviation 3A or some other did it with disrespect towards skaters or didn't take them as individuals (in some amount many people did it whether they are fans or their counterparts of the skaters or their coaches). People can be fans of whatever or whoever they want to be. There is no law of nature saying "this sport is about this, but not about that." That does not exist, it is about what people want it to be about. And you can easily be a fan of a skater and fan of a team, for many reasons, style, type of the choreo, approach etc. That does not exclude respecting skaters as individualities and being fan of them.

....

I disagree that “skating is not about the coach or the team” is obviously wrong. I think that statement is obviously right. And I don’t think I can break 40 plus years of conditioning, so we will just need to differ on that

I do not think folks used “3A” out of malice. But now that Mr. Scherbakov has said Anna doesn’t like it, I imagine her fans, at least, will use it less often.

 

[TallyT]

I disagree that “skating is not about the coach or the team” is obviously wrong. I think that statement is obviously right.

If it's any consolation, you are by no means alone :thumbsup:

 

[Mathman]

After all, in the history books, it will be Zagitova and Hanyu and Virtue/Moir and Dick Button and Plushenko-the-skater who will be inscribed most brilliantly, not Tutberidze and Orser and Marie-France Dubreuil and Gustave Lussi and Plushenko-the-coach, and that is IMHO as it should be.

Now you got me to thinking. Is there any coach who rises above the athletes the public eye.

In American professional football, I think coach Vince Lombardy of the Green Bay Packers is probably more recognized than any individual player, although they have had many good ones. (And by the way, he is remembered for his tough-guy Marine drill-sergeant coaching style.)

A college basketball coach can get famous by contending for the national collegiate championship year after year, each time with a different group of players.

 

[Skatesocs]

Now you got me to thinking. Is there any coach who rises above the athletes the public eye.

In American professional football, I think coach Vince Lombardy of the Green Bay Packers is probably more recognized than any individual player, although they have had many good ones. (And by the way, he is remembered for his tough-guy Marine drill-sergeant coaching style.)

A college basketball coach can get famous by contending for the national collegiate championship year after year, each time with a different group of players.

I don't agree with TallyT. To answer your question, I think Orser, TAT, and Tutberidze will be remembered. Maybe not more than their students, but just as much.

 

[ancientpeas]

If people can allow Gabby and Guillaume, Hubbell and Donahue and Chock and Bates to have their own identities then we shouldn't force the Eteri girls to join some weird borg like cube.

The only time it bothered me was at Russian nationals when they were forced to sit together at the end with Alexandra and Aliona so obviously devastated and sad and poor Anna not able to really enjoy her victory because that would have been gauche. I felt it did all 3 young women a disservice.

 

[TallyT]

Now you got me to thinking. Is there any coach who rises above the athletes the public eye.

In American professional football, I think coach Vince Lombardy of the Green Bay Packers is probably more recognized than any individual player, although they have had many good ones. (And by the way, he is remembered for his tough-guy Marine drill-sergeant coaching style.)

A college basketball coach can get famous by contending for the national collegiate championship year after year, each time with a different group of players.

There are a couple in Australia's favourite football games. Mind you, they were, I believe, superstar players first and team games are different, since the teams are meant to change every year.

Even then, would you say that the coach or the team are the bigger star? Even with the above coaches in NRL and Aussie Rules, it's still the team that's front and centre.

 

[Mathman]

I think Yao Bin is a good candidate for memorable coach. He created something out of nothing all by himself.

 

[Mathman]

If people can allow Gabby and Guillaume, Hubbell and Donahue and Chock and Bates to have their own identities then we shouldn't force the Eteri girls to join some weird borg like cube.

Are saying you don't like nicknames like Voir or Marley?

 

[ancientpeas]

I think Yao Bin is a good candidate for memorable coach. He created something out of nothing all by himself.

What Yao Bin did was amazing. The book The Second Mark talked a lot about the development of the pairs program in China. Without him there would be no Chinese pairs skating.

Russian coaches are huge personality it seems but I think someone like Carlo Fauci was also a huge personality. Also Juta Mulluer and Frank Carroll.

 

[ancientpeas]

Are saying you don't like nicknames like Voir or Marley?

No.. not really. But more I think if "the three As" don't like it then we should probably refrain. Did Virtue/Moir or Davis/White ever say if they liked their nicknames?

 

[Skatesocs]

I think Yao Bin is a good candidate for memorable coach. He created something out of nothing all by himself.

Yessss agreed. In China, but then the three I mentioned would only be famous in Russia. Their students will push them up, and multiple Olympic medals will give them deserved fame.

 

[el henry]

Are saying you don't like nicknames like Voir or Marley?

As someone who had "fallen away" and came back to skating in 2014, the first time I saw "Marley" on this Board, I had no earthly clue who that was. It truly took me a while.
And 3A will always be a triple axel for me at first glance

 

[Fried]

The thing was, from an outsider's point of view, not that the coach wasn't part of the equation but that the coach became the major element of the equation: it sometimes appears (especially during the Medvedeva kerfuffle and then Trusova's less fraught exit stage left) that a number of fans have elevated Tutberidze as the star and idol above her pupils and for those fans, the skaters' duty is to burnish her place in their pantheon. Which annoys the c*** out of people who believe coaches are there to do the burnishing thank you very much and it's mainly, even only, the one out there on the ice under all the hungry eyes who matters.

Me, I think neither is extreme is right, and the middle path is probably best. Tutberidze deserves lot of admiration and kudos as does three-OGM Brian, as do other coaches. As will Plushy if he does good by Trusova. But when the skaters begin to blur in the public gaze and just become #TeamWhatever, they are more than entitled to not care for it very much.

After all, in the history books, it will be Zagitova and Hanyu and Virtue/Moir and Dick Button and Plushenko-the-skater who will be inscribed most brilliantly, not Tutberidze and Orser and Marie-France Dubreuil and Gustave Lussi and Plushenko-the-coach, and that is IMHO as it should be.

Exactly. One should differentiate between coaching discussion and hero worship. At which competition was that again when Eteri, herself amazed at the calls from the ranks, said to her skater who had just come off the ice "You win and I am cheered"? Basically, it gets to the point.