2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[dunffvanstorn]

Check out also the test skates.
https://youtu.be/ICzDgT7Z4-U

The FP was also visibly smoother there.
https://youtu.be/3c4cmazhjrI

Anyway, I prefer to see her in her black bib shorts. These simply fit the sporty Sasha best.




I actually found the dress for GOT even less advantageous. The cut was catastrophic. It always looked like Sasha had a bloated belly (which is a shame - she has such a fantastic body shape!). At the end of the season, one was afraid that it would burst at the seams.

You’re right, her overall flow and commitment to choreography is much better in these videos. I wonder what happens in competition, or if it’s a poorly cut dress effect that makes her movements look more sloppy.

I’m not sure which of her dresses I dislike the most, but the white/black/gray was terrible, and about the GoT blue vest I don’t have a proper opinion... it was juniorish... Maybe I should rewatch the program paying attention to that. The first pink/purple dress was very pretty, it just didn’t match the GoT theme.


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[dunffvanstorn]

At the time, I thought the dress for the Japan Open was not quite right, and that the blue one was a better colour choice for portraying Daenerys, but while I am amusing myself by rewatching past seasons, I went back to that triumphant skate, and found that I really quite liked her dress there. Personal taste, but I think I actually do prefer the cut of the skirt in particular on the Japan Open dress. As for the colours, well, they aren't quite Targaryen black and red, but they are close enough, I suppose? At any rate, looking back, I do like that dress more than I did at the start of last season!

Me too, absolutely. It just didn’t match the GoT theme.


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[dunffvanstorn]

...what? That one-foot sequence from Chan was full of "ISU-approved" difficult turns, and Abbott's had a deep outside roll with edge change + choctaw + turns in the opposite direction of his jump rotation, right before the entrance, which is not easy. The back-inside to forward-outside 3-turn should really be considered a difficult turn on its own anyway (depending on how you enter the turn, it looks and feels nearly identical to a counter turn anyway), particularly the type done in the opposite direction of a skater's natural rotational direction.



But that's not what skating is supposed to be. If you are doing constant movements without the depth and steadiness and run of edge, then what level of "skating ability" are you actually showing? Furthermore, if performance/choreography/interpretation components were being scored correctly, then why should someone want to do a movement that would only help one component score, transitions, while hurting 3 other components? The answer is - most people wouldn't want to. The components are simply not being scored correctly, thus people do hackneyed programs and get the scores anyway, which in turn makes an entire generation of skaters look at skating like that and try to compete like that.



This is just not correct. Chan spends longer on one foot in that sequence, and does more turns during that single duration, than anything Zagitova has ever shown in a program. The "amount of turns done in relation to how long on one foot" is very high too. It's funny you say to use a stopwatch, and act like Zagitova is doing almost nothing but one-foot skating, because if you go watch her program from last season, you will see many crossovers and a big break where she just stands there doing almost no movement in the middle of the program.

I also must point out how weak her attempted change of edge spiral was - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXZEM9osim4&t=2m33s - lack of extension, bobbing free leg, unsteady edge, not very deep edges, and lack of duration on the first edge. I was shocked they put that in the program, it is NOT good, and I cringe watching it and hearing the audience sympathy clap just because someone is doing a spiral. Her lack of quality right there shows an important aspect that has been missing in skating, and her own deficiency in skating skill.

People say Alina’s skating skills are amazing, but I just don’t get it. She’s improved a lot, I must say, but I still think her movements were very sloppy and her SS weren’t good at all during her first senior season, more visibly in her Swan Lake program. I know everybody loves the Swan Lake program, but for me Cleopatra >>>>> Swan Lake. So, that spiral wasn’t even that bad when I remember how cringey Swan Lake is for me. I must say, however, that I’m not hating on Alina, I’m a huge fan, I just don’t think I have to like all her programs and pretend her flaws don’t exist.

 

[plushyfan]

Why is Stanislava not in Kislovodsk? Is it like Ryabova where she trains under the AoP name but her real coach is Volkov?

Her main coach will be Volkov, as Ryabova's. But Plushenko works with every pupil. The off ice trainer is Rem, that guy also works with every pupil. They work in team.

Is Muravyova in Kislovodsk?

3 weeks ago only 5 skaters could go to Kislovodsk. According to a yesterday video the other pupils have arrived in Kislovodsk. There is no quarantine in Russia they could travel there. Probably Muravyova is there, too.

 

[zounger]

People say Alina’s skating skills are amazing, but I just don’t get it.

Who is people, the judges or in this forum you mean? I haven’t heard anything good about Alina here only about Plushenko.

 

[Mathman]

Who is people, the judges or in this forum you mean? I haven’t heard anything good about Alina here only about Plushenko.

I'll go.

Alina Zagitova is Olympic Champion. She is World Champion. Plushenko is Olympic and World champion, too. :yes:

 

[SkateSkates]

But that's not what skating is supposed to be. If you are doing constant movements without the depth and steadiness and run of edge, then what level of "skating ability" are you actually showing? Furthermore, if performance/choreography/interpretation components were being scored correctly, then why should someone want to do a movement that would only help one component score, transitions, while hurting 3 other components? The answer is - most people wouldn't want to. The components are simply not being scored correctly, thus people do hackneyed programs and get the scores anyway, which in turn makes an entire generation of skaters look at skating like that and try to compete like that.


.

Yes! 100% Agree with you here. Also, transitions are not only about quantity, but also about quality. If a skater is doing a flat edge rocker or bracket, it doesn’t really count as a difficult turn.

I’m curious to hear your opinion - who from the Russian ladies do you think have the best skating skills/overall components? For me (seniors only) it would be Aliona Kostornaia, Kseniia Sinitsyna, Nastya Gubanova and Tarakanova (SS only, her recent programs have not been great).

 

[zounger]

I'll go.

Alina Zagitova is Olympic Champion. She is World Champion. Plushenko is Olympic and World champion, too. :yes:

You are a posteriori though, a priori I would like to know who are those people who praising Alina in this thread.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

But that's not what skating is supposed to be. If you are doing constant movements without the depth and steadiness and run of edge, then what level of "skating ability" are you actually showing? Furthermore, if performance/choreography/interpretation components were being scored correctly, then why should someone want to do a movement that would only help one component score, transitions, while hurting 3 other components? The answer is - most people wouldn't want to. The components are simply not being scored correctly, thus people do hackneyed programs and get the scores anyway, which in turn makes an entire generation of skaters look at skating like that and try to compete like that.

Well, it's not on you to say what figure skating suppose to be and what most of people in this world would do. I mean, it's pretty clear that not just me, but also ISU and their representatives - judges don't agree on your take on figure skating. I appreciate your opinion and i found it somewhat fine, i just think it is not reliable in current reality of figure skating. Again, this is a Russian ladies tread, and i can only suggest you to watch Zagitova performances commentated by British Eurosport commentators, and you will see in their words what i'm talking about. And if you think that you know more and better than that and the judges than it's pointless for me to have a conversation with you, cause i certainly don't know more than them about figure skating these days

 

[Finley]

You are a posteriori though, a priori I would like to know who are those people who praising Alina in this thread.

Don't summon them. The chorus of "I love Alina, but....." will be never-ending.

 

[Finley]

Well, it's not on you to say what figure skating supposed to be and what most of people in this world would do. I mean, it's pretty clear that not just me, but also ISU and their representatives - judges don't agree on your take on figure skating. I appreciate your opinion and i found it fine, i just think it is not reliable in current reality of figure skating. Again, this is a Russian ladies tread, and i can only suggest you to watch Zagitova performances commentated by British Eurosport commentators, and you will see in their words what i'm talking about. Well, if you think that you know more and better than that and the judges than it's pointless for me to have a conversation with you, cause i certainly don't know more than them about figure skating these days

I promise you, they will never see what you are talking about. Ever. And trust me it is so very pointless to continue to try.

I'm going to attempt to have a new outlook. Isn't it just absolutely amazing that Alina has done almost nothing as good as any other top skater in the world in her 18 years of existence? And by some miracle of fate she has just been handed every possible medal because......reasons(?)...... I guess.

I wish those that think she is soooo forgettable would just go ahead and forget her. Like right this minute! Why wait two years?

And those of us that love her will just wait patiently and see what happens if she ever decides to learn how to skate or something close to it.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

You are a posteriori though, a priori I would like to know who are those people who praising Alina in this thread.

Me, obviously But i'm praising all of current skaters, so

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

People say Alina’s skating skills are amazing, but I just don’t get it. She’s improved a lot, I must say, but I still think her movements were very sloppy and her SS weren’t good at all during her first senior season, more visibly in her Swan Lake program. I know everybody loves the Swan Lake program, but for me Cleopatra >>>>> Swan Lake. So, that spiral wasn’t even that bad when I remember how cringey Swan Lake is for me. I must say, however, that I’m not hating on Alina, I’m a huge fan, I just don’t think I have to like all her programs and pretend her flaws don’t exist.

I agree, I think when she was smaller it wasn't as obvious, which is the case with almost everybody. But she got taller and more womanly, the hunch got more obvious, and no attention was paid to that aspect of her skating so it just grew blaringly blatant, even if the marks don't quite reflect it.

 

[Skatesocs]

I'll go.

Alina Zagitova is Olympic Champion. She is World Champion. Plushenko is Olympic and World champion, too. :yes:

Sure but maybe you'll need to make a new topic soon lol

And if you think that you know more and better than that and the judges than it's pointless for me to have a conversation with you, cause i certainly don't know more than them about figure skating these days

In fact, we should just close the forum because we don't need to discuss anything since the judges know best anyway! Long live the queen~

and Abbott's had a deep outside roll with edge change + choctaw + turns in the opposite direction of his jump rotation, right before the entrance, which is not easy.

This is getting OT quick probably, but since you brought up Hanyu, I think Chen did the same double three turns, power pull entry into a 3A with none of the quality as Abbott. Just kind of sad to see now. Asada used to do a double threes power pull into her double axel, and it did go more beautifully with the music and flowed better in her 2007 iteration of her Chopin's Nocturne.

 

[AshWagsFan]

I agree, I think when she was smaller it wasn't as obvious, which is the case with almost everybody. But she got taller and more womanly, the hunch got more obvious, and no attention was paid to that aspect of her skating so it just grew blaringly blatant, even if the marks don't quite reflect it.

A major flaw in the Eteri school is that, as the skaters get older, their skating skills are not worked on. If you watch Medvedeva, you could also see her hunching and having labored skating skills as she got taller. It’s a stark contrast to older skaters with good skating skills, such as Kostner, Osmond, Kim, etc.

 

[Skatesocs]

A major flaw in the Eteri school is that, as the skaters get older, their skating skills are not worked on. If you watch Medvedeva, you could also see her hunching and having labored skating skills as she got taller. It’s a stark contrast to older skaters with good skating skills, such as Kostner, Osmond, Kim, etc.

It's because they lead with their upper body. It's a real struggle with the feet and knees. Unless they focus on that part - get power from the lower body - it will lead to problems as they grow up.

 

[Amei]

I agree, I think when she was smaller it wasn't as obvious, which is the case with almost everybody. But she got taller and more womanly, the hunch got more obvious, and no attention was paid to that aspect of her skating so it just grew blaringly blatant, even if the marks don't quite reflect it.

I think the choppiness of Phantom, Cleopatra and Carmen is part of the problem, it highlighted her SS problems. . I wish they would try a softer program for her.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Well, it's not on you to say what figure skating supposed to be and what most of people in this world would do. I mean, it's pretty clear that not just me, but also ISU and their representatives - judges don't agree on your take on figure skating. I appreciate your opinion and i found it fine, i just think it is not reliable in current reality of figure skating. Again, this is a Russian ladies tread, and i can only suggest you to watch Zagitova performances commentated by British Eurosport commentators, and you will see in their words what i'm talking about. Well, if you think that you know more and better than them and the judges than it's pointless for me to have a conversation with you, cause i certainly don't know more than them about figure skating

Fallacies, sigh. Many people agree with my take on skating, even just among what's publicly documented, and have helped to pass my ideas through ISU Congress to improve the system. It is "on me", and anyone else who is very knowledgeable about skating and its history and every detail of scoring system, to discuss our viewpoint and fight for the ideal ecosystem. It's a big task to shape the scoring system and the judging to an "ideal" state, to untangle this web of complexity through a governing body that is itself fractured. Just because people live under a certain system, it doesn't mean they agree with it all. The person who wrote the initial CoP rules even says it has been misused; that should tell you something.

Pointing to Eurosport commentators as some kind of infallible argument (and then stating your own limitation, as if it's impossible for you to learn more?) is a weird stance. One of those guys was never a skater, and most commentaries are targeted towards a general audience and try to be very generous about the performances, rather than point out details like the ones we are talking about now. There are commentaries that agree with what I am saying anyway, so this isn't something you want to argue. The judge argument is so tired too, they are simply volunteers who have generally not put as much thought into these things, and who are frequently influenced by politics. They just press the scoring buttons at competitions, so what? There are more qualified people than them to do it, but this is how things are. Some of them have even said they don't agree with the competition results of their own scores, which could be both a sign of how the system is flawed, and their own misunderstanding of how to use the system.

 

[Mathman]

It's because they lead with their upper body.

I think that is the price that an athlete must pay for powerful jumps.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe..._Linz_2018_men´s_110m_hurdles_Okafor-6401.jpg

Someone like Patrick Chan, who can do a quad while still maintaining a dancer's carriage -- that's pretty rare. Same with skating for speed. This is what you look like when you skate for speed:

https://stillmed.olympic.org/media/...-02-13-Speed-Skating-Mens-1500m-thumbnail.jpg

 

[Skatesocs]

I think that is the price that an athlete must pay for powerful jumps.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe..._Linz_2018_men´s_110m_hurdles_Okafor-6401.jpg

Someone like Patrick Chan, who can do a quad while still maintaining a dancer's carriage -- that's pretty rare. Same with skating for speed. This is what you look like when you skate for speed:

https://stillmed.olympic.org/media/...-02-13-Speed-Skating-Mens-1500m-thumbnail.jpg

I don't think it's rare, nor would I give Chan as an example of great jumping (although better than Eteri girls of course and also didn't get power from his arms). An effortless upper body and spring coming from your feet is found in Midori Ito's jumps, or Yuna Kim's. Even someone with average height in jumps like Kwan. The current ladies Sakamoto and Higuchi. From the men you can see in Kolyada, the Chinese men. It's not the kind of jumping you're taking about A more accurate comparison would be the leaps in ballet maybe. No visible upper body effort there.

I also meant about Eteri girls' skating skill though. They really... Swing across the ice to get those level fours.