2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Baron Vladimir]

Baron Vladimir also liked your post, and I want to say to him how you and I and Blades seemingly get insight vs how he gets insight aren't the same He justifies scores simply by looking at them and nothing more, no understanding of philosophy behind it. We understand what we want, see what we are getting. Blades apparently even tries to correct it.

That's rude... And egoistic... Can we please (let people) talk about Russian ladies, and not about me?

 

[Skatesocs]

Oh and I disagree Valieva has good skating skills. She is efficient for her age, but I don't see her progressing. To me, the best skating skills came from the group coached by Panova for the Russian juniors. In the seniors apart from Kostornaia recently, the best ones that come to mind are Sotskova, Radionova, and Pogorilaya. Sotnikova as well.

 

[Mathman]

Joe Inman also said while being a guest in one TSL episode that Russian single skaters at last Olympic didn't have musicality at all in their olympic programmes, and he adressed that opinion on Dimitri Aliev and Mikael Kolyada.

I don't know bout "objective," but he is consistent. He likes what he likes (exceptional musicality) and he judges the same way at every event.

 

[zounger]

It will never end Z. It's like a cat chasing its tail.

I don’t mind it. Just I saw 50 something pages in this thread and said wow that’s a lot for a covid offseason. Of course I had to read the title 5 times to make sure I’m not in Plushenko thread. Then someone said that everyone is praising Alina’s SS. I got curious. Apparently it was only one. But maybe they (as they like to use plural) talk about an imaginary skater, one that needs to regain edges and retired, for that skater they might be right.

 

[Skatesocs]

I don't know bout "objective," but he is consistent. He likes what he likes (exceptional musicality) and he judges the same way at every event.

To my understanding he was talking about their programs. He caught flack for saying Vincent Zhou's choreography at 2019 worlds LP was better than Kolyada's. I agreed with him there, and also in his opinions on Jin Boyang's and Brezina's skating. I only watched that episode because he caught flack however, maybe I don't know more because I don't like TSL, but these opinions were consistent with him putting musicality above all.

 

[Mathman]

Skating skills and posture became the tool used on daily basis against Alina since she started to defeat "meritorious queens" of figure skating,...

Still, we can put this in a broader historical perspective. The discussion of the role of posture and carriage did not start in 2018. Dorthy Hamill was praised in the in this regard, as was John Curry. People applauded Janet Lynn and criticized Trixie Schuba -- sure, Schuba had figures to die for, but Lynn had better carriage and presence.

Nothing new under the sun.

 

[Skatesocs]

Agree on that part generally and I don’t even dismiss that people on this forum (or outside) may judge better that official judges. I don’t agree generally on the Alina has worse skating skills that the current top skaters. Watching their warm ups and practices recently in Turin I didn’t noticed something like that.

Then please tell us why you feel that way comparing her to Kihira and Kostornaia. It's a genuine question. I can see why you think so vs Shcherbackova, Trusova, and Tennell.

 

[lesnar001]

I don't know bout "objective," but he is consistent. He likes what he likes (exceptional musicality) and he judges the same way at every event.

I appreciated that he gave such an in-depth explanation into his reasons for how he scored the Ladies LP in Salt Lake City.
It was coherent, consistent and very insightful. And showed how complex it was to assess all the plus/minus of each skater.
And then to keep it all straight when it came time to compare them to the other skaters.

It was the most detailed thing I ever saw on the 6.0 scoring system.

 

[zounger]

Then please tell us why you feel that way comparing her to Kihira and Kostornaia. It's a genuine question. I can see why you think so vs Shcherbackova, Trusova, and Tennell.

By the way Tennell SS are fine as her jumps speed spins and overall program and interpretation attack to it. Very underestimate skater. People talk like she is third sort of skater when actually she is very good one.

 

[Skatesocs]

By the way Tennell SS are fine as her jumps speed spins and overall program and interpretation attack to it. Very underestimate skater. People talk like she is third sort of skater when actually she is very good one.

I don't see Tennell as a bad skater at all she is fast-ish but that wasn't the point. Her skating skills aren't *great*. So I can see why you'd think Zagitova is better, when you say she was equal or better than other top skaters at Turin. But why would you say she is equal or better than Kostornaia?

 

[zounger]

For Aliona for example whenever she does twizzles I get the feeling she will fell, it’s something I don’t get with others. In such blade movements she doesn’t look better than others to me.

 

[Skatesocs]

For Aliona for example whenever she does twizzles I get the feeling she will fell, it’s something I don’t get with others. In such blade movements she doesn’t look better than others to me.

I can agree Kostornaia's blade control can use some more work :agree: And that perhaps Zagitova can out her on how she performs some of her clusters in her steps sequences. I don't agree she's an equal pure skater, but this I will give you.

 

[zounger]

I can agree Kostornaia's blade control can use some more work :agree: And that perhaps Zagitova can out her on how she performs some of her clusters in her steps sequences.

I gave you an example as promised. I will not proceed further and not with Aliona which is one of the best skaters of the decade even if she is still young and not because I can’t but because I don’t want to.

 

[lopsilceci]

Maybe we should enjoy skaters who **guess what** actually exist and have both:

1. Good skating skills
2. Good AND hard jumps
3. Good interpretation
4. Good dancing qualities

We can watch them in some currently competing ladies too

I never said these things didn't exist in ladies skating...

Just saying, there's a whole discipline centered around those things in figure skating that you value most, so why not focus on that and stop fretting over which lady has good skating skills and who doesn't (according to your standards)?

 

[Skatesocs]

I gave you an example as promised. I will not proceed further and not with Aliona which is one of the best skaters of the decade even if she is still young and not because I can’t but because I don’t want to.

Hey I agree Kostornaia's talented. I just wanted to see why you'd think that way.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

As someone who is very new to figure skating, and who knows next to nothing about the technical aspects, I just want to say that this discussion is very interesting and educational, but keeps straying from Russian ladies to more general issues about skating technique, as well as scoring. Would it perhaps be possible to move it to a new thread, where the debate can continue, while this thread stays somewhat more on topic?

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to detailed discussions of the strengths and weaknesses of the current Russian ladies skaters, preferably beyond those on the national team, as they get a lot of focus, and while rewatching the last Russian Nationals, I realised that there are so many amazing female skaters there, and I would really like to know more about them. Ksenia Sinitsyna is clearly an up-and-coming young skater right now, and Anna Frolova and Valeria Shulskaya also caught my eye, but, frankly, I would be grateful for any discussion of the ladies at Russian Nationals outside the top four.

Oh, I like this idea! I'll start with a few now, and may add more later. Here are my opinions:

Ksenia Sinitsyna
- Strengths: wonderful, fluid skating skills; good jump technique (also no wrong edges on flip or lutz); programs that showcase her performance ability and strengths (interpretation, musicality, etc.); incredible spins; backloaded all three combinations; good flexibility and choreo sequences
- Weaknesses: no "ultra-C" element (also took out 3Lz-3Lo); consistency has not been the best recently

Anna Frolova
- Strengths: good jump technique (also no wrong edges on flip or lutz); mental strength increased after moving to Davydov
- Weaknesses: could use more development in skating skills, interpretation and musicality; had somewhat bland programs last season (in my opinion); could work more on spins

Valeria Shulskaya
- Strengths: extremely consistent; good jump technique (especially on lutz); performs to her music well
- Weaknesses: also could use more development in skating skills and interpretation (I believe her StSq at Nationals was also called at a level 2); had programs that did not fully play to her strengths (especially the SP); could work more on spins

Anastasia Guliakova
- Strengths: has solid jumps (except the Lutz) that look visually appealing; really gained consistency last season; good spinner (maybe except layback); pretty good skating skills and step sequences; working on triple axel
- Weaknesses: warhorse programs don't give her individuality; sometimes performs "through" her music; lutz edge and all combos in first half (if I remember correctly); edit - sometimes URs jumps

Elizaveta Nuguamnova
- Strengths: musicality, interpretation, and skating skills; wonderful spins; has -3Lo combos (she even did a 3F-3Lo once in 2017!)
- Weaknesses: prone to UR; needs more consistency

Anastasia Tarakanova
- Strengths: amazing skating skills; passionate and devoted interpretation; solid jumps (good technique also on both flip and lutz); fast, centered, spins
- Weaknesses: consistency could be improved; musicality is sometimes lacking

Ksenia Tsibinova
- Strengths: consistency; solid jumps (good technique especially on lutz); backloaded all three combinations
- Weaknesses: needs to develop more in skating skills, interpretation, and musicality; programs were somewhat bland

Serafima Sakhanovich:
- Strengths: ripponed jumps with tight air position; extremely fast and centered spins; has regained much of her consistency; interpretation; working on quad salchow
- Weaknesses: lutz edge; double axel (though it, and the lutz edge, is much improved!); flexibility; could use more musicality

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Anastasia Guliakova
- Strengths: has solid jumps (except the Lutz) that look visually appealing; really gained consistency last season; good spinner (maybe except layback); pretty good skating skills and step sequences; working on triple axel
- Weaknesses: warhorse programs don't give her individuality; sometimes performs "through" her music; lutz edge and all combos in first half (if I remember correctly)

While she is a good skater overall, (and as you are saying her Lz edge was wrong, not even unclear), i also noticed at Russian Nationals she had problems to fully rotate jumps, and all Russian panel called some of her jumps in free as UR. So rotation on some jumps can be her weakness, too. (All of that while being a Mishin skater, who would say :dev3

 

[SkateSkates]

I keep bringing this up, but it keeps getting lost amongst other passionate discussions

Does anyone know if the Snow Leopards are back training, or if they have a set date when they’re going back/where they will be?

Thank you.

 

[el henry]

I never said these things didn't exist in ladies skating...

Just saying, there's a whole discipline centered around those things in figure skating that you value most, so why not focus on that and stop fretting over which lady has good skating skills and who doesn't (according to your standards)?

Well, speaking for myself, I love wonderful skating skills, musicality, spins, spins, spins, and jumps. And jumps are last.

And I love singles' skating more than dance, so I will continue to prize those elements of figure skating that I like in singles, and argue that too much emphasis is given to jumps.

And no, although I like ice dance, I do not care to watch it exclusively. We all like what we like

 

[Vemvane]

Thank you, Spirals for Miles! This is fantastic to read, and very helpful for me! I shall be keeping these observations in mind when watching their skates in future. I remember Anastasia Tarakanova from the JGP, and she is indeed passionate and powerful; I hope she gets to go senior whenever we next have a season. Elizaveta Nugumanova had a pretty nice free skate at Nationals, really fun to watch, though she definitely stalled a bit coming out of some of her jumps, and I finally understood (or I think I did!) what Ted Barton means when he talks about the jumps being tight, when she landed one of her combos and virtually turned on the spot, she had so little momentum, instead of flowing out of it, the way the stronger jumpers did.

I can't actually remember anything about Ksenia Tsibinova or Anastasia Guliakova from their Nationals free skates, except that I thiiiiink Guliakova skated in the final flight. Clearly will have to rewatch their programmes. And I did not know that Serafima Sakhanovich was working on a quad salchow! If she does succeed in learning the quad and landing it in competition consistently, I imagine she will shoot up through the standings, and maybe even be a contender for a team spot? Still very much a conditional, though. I do wonder whether the longer break from competition will help the skaters who are working on getting quads (I would very much like to see the rumoured potential quad salchows of Aliona and Evgenia both in the future, and am now adding Serafima to the list).

Going back to the not-team-members, though, if I want to see these skaters in competition, will they be found at challengers and domestic competitions? It really is a pity that they can't more of them compete internationally, as they are so good.