2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[YuBluByMe]

Are we watching the same skater?

Because your claims about Aliona are so absurd to me, I wonder if I shouldn’t rewatch every single competition of hers to see what you’re seeing. I’m not trying to be hateful towards you, but maybe I’m
Blind.

They’re not absurd to me. I don’t think Kostornaia is musical either. I agree with you that over-the-top facial expressions are not necessary for interpretation; in fact, I prefer expression with the body, not the face. I disagree that Kostornaia inteprets music in this way. She does not; on the contrary, she has little connection to music and skates right over it. She did this multiple times with Nationals and Europeans (both programs) being the best examples. The transitions make it worse. (The flying leaf after the 3A has to go.) Kostornaia performs with the beauty and crispness of her elements, not with an innate understanding of music.

 

[Skatesocs]

I literally meant Kostornaia is not naturally musical, and not unmusical lol. It's not like Miyahara and Kwan were unmusical - although their musicality is still on a different level than hers.

I would disagree that Kostornaia has interpreted any music, ever. That would require her to have done a real program in her entire career. If with Eteri she must stick, I'd like to see her work with Averbukh, as he is the one who did that 2016 worlds LP for Medvedeva.

 

[Ifwe]

The time when Sasha won her first world junior title was approx. when Rozanov just joined the team. And he definitely wasn't in Sofia with her. So no, he had zero to do with her title. That's nothing against him, but you people in your enthusuiasm shouldn't twist the facts.

No actually he was with them since 2017

 

[dunffvanstorn]

The time when Sasha won her first world junior title was approx. when Rozanov just joined the team. And he definitely wasn't in Sofia with her. So no, he had zero to do with her title. That's nothing against him, but you people in your enthusuiasm shouldn't twist the facts.

So, the guy who was in the videos was a ghost of him, I guess.

I’m not enthusiastic about him, I’m not like the ones who call him “hot sergei”, but the guy deserves credit. The novices are amazing, all because of him. Aliona recovered her 3A because of him. I think Team Tutberidze didn’t show him a lot as he was new and probably had some sort of disagreements with Daniil in terms of artistic direction.

But, definitely Rozanov >>>>> Daniil.

 

[Scott512]

The time when Sasha won her first world junior title was approx. when Rozanov just joined the team. And he definitely wasn't in Sofia with her. So no, he had zero to do with her title. That's nothing against him, but you people in your enthusuiasm shouldn't twist the facts.

Agreed. He had little to do with Sasha's first World Junior title. We can figure out why Sasha left for Plushenko. Young Sergei was not the main reason. Although I'm sure she's happy he's there.

 

[Amei]

So, the guy who was in the videos was a ghost of him, I guess.

I’m not enthusiastic about him, I’m not like the ones who call him “hot sergei”, but the guy deserves credit. The novices are amazing, all because of him. Aliona recovered her 3A because of him. I think Team Tutberidze didn’t show him a lot as he was new and probably had some sort of disagreements with Daniil in terms of artistic direction.

But, definitely Rozanov >>>>> Daniil.

All because of him?? I think there is something to be said for the fact the team of coaches that was there prior to Rozanov was helping create champions. Additionally, Sambo/Eteri's team has gained such prestige that they are able to pick from the cream of the crop of talent; there was an interview with Viсtor Adoniev, a former student/coach of Eteri's, that Shchebakova was kicked out of the group for lack of her triples, she was only taken back into the group after she gained them with another coach.


From his interview, can be found in the thread "The Tutberidze Effect" translated by Orlov Thank you for the translation Orlov!

I also like Anya Shcherbakova's programs. I used to work with her a lot — when Tutberidze asked her to leave the group. I also left at that moment, and Anya and I worked together a lot.

Wow… I've never heard of this fact.

I don't think that anyone will be surprised that we then collaborated with Anya. We worked together with Artemiy Punin, he was engaged with her jumps. Shcherbakova learned the triples under his guidance, and not with anyone else. Punin, by the way, is also a pupil of Tutberidze.

So he did the jumps, and I did the programs and gliding with Anya. It was after this that Eteri Georgievna again took Shcherbakova to her group. This is a normal situation, because Eteri is already a great coach. She's telling everyone now: "Good girl, you come with all the triples — I'll take her." Her track record is already so solid, everyone wants her, so there's no other way.

Q: What could Anna do before leaving the group?

She jumped double and double Axel, but there were serious mistakes and no one wanted to deal with it. The coaches then had someone to work with, and there was no point in wasting time on Anya.

Q: And in what group did Shcherbakova study before returning to Tutberidze?

Not in any group. Her parents paid for private lessons, that's all.

 

[AshWagsFan]

The time when Sasha won her first world junior title was approx. when Rozanov just joined the team. And he definitely wasn't in Sofia with her. So no, he had zero to do with her title. That's nothing against him, but you people in your enthusuiasm shouldn't twist the facts.

I’d never even heard of him when she won her first junior world title...

 

[Lunalovesskating]

The time when Sasha won her first world junior title was approx. when Rozanov just joined the team. And he definitely wasn't in Sofia with her. So no, he had zero to do with her title. That's nothing against him, but you people in your enthusuiasm shouldn't twist the facts.

Sasha won her 1st Junior World title in March 2018. Rozanov joined Team Tutberidze in Spring 2017 from his posts on instagram, that is when his first posts at the rink started e.g. attending comps with novice skaters, posts of him working with Daniil at the rink etc.

 

[lopsilceci]

So, the guy who was in the videos was a ghost of him, I guess.

I’m not enthusiastic about him, I’m not like the ones who call him “hot sergei”, but the guy deserves credit. The novices are amazing, all because of him. Aliona recovered her 3A because of him. I think Team Tutberidze didn’t show him a lot as he was new and probably had some sort of disagreements with Daniil in terms of artistic direction.

But, definitely Rozanov >>>>> Daniil.

I'm sorry, but it's nonsense to compare a guy who has mainly coached novices his entire (short) career to a guy whose programs have won Olympic medals.
If he had disagreements with anyone in Eteri's group or wanted to have more protagonism as a coach/choreographer, good for him for getting the opportunity to do that with Plushenko, but he hasn't proven anything significant yet.

And given how the dynamic works between coaches at Eteri's group, where everyone has input in every aspect, I doubt Rozanov can be given sole credit for Aliona or anyone else in that group's improvement.

 

[Happy Skates]

I’d never even heard of him when she won her first junior world title...

I'm not saying Rozanov was responsible for her win, but I don't think whether or not fans had heard of him correlates to who is doing the work at home. I hadn't heard of him at that point either, but it doesn't mean he wasn't an important part (although in this case someone said that thats apparently around when he joined the team, but the point is that whether or not he is known to the public doesn't mean much).

 

[flanker]

So, the guy who was in the videos was a ghost of him, I guess.

I’m not enthusiastic about him, I’m not like the ones who call him “hot sergei”, but the guy deserves credit. The novices are amazing, all because of him. Aliona recovered her 3A because of him. I think Team Tutberidze didn’t show him a lot as he was new and probably had some sort of disagreements with Daniil in terms of artistic direction.

But, definitely Rozanov >>>>> Daniil.

While there are people who lose interest about those who leave Eteri's team, there is also a group whose members actually become fans of the people only when they leave them, even if they hardly noticed them before. Just like Sasha lost and also gained new fans, the same goes for Rozanov. But the number of ">" doesn't make something more valuable, just more subjective.

 

[flanker]

I'm not saying Rozanov was responsible for her win, but I don't think whether or not fans had heard of him correlates to who is doing the work at home. I hadn't heard of him at that point either, but it doesn't mean he wasn't an important part (although in this case someone said that thats apparently around when he joined the team, but the point is that whether or not he is known to the public doesn't mean much).

Just like I said, people who barely noticed him two monts ago are suddenly his most devoted fans and credit him with literally everything. That's not the game I play.

 

[TallyT]

I literally meant Kostornaia is not naturally musical, and not unmusical lol. It's not like Miyahara and Kwan were unmusical - although their musicality is still on a different level than hers.

They have had more time to mature and evolve, musically, intellectually and emotionally. It is what it is, none of the current crop of young athletically wondrous teenagers, Tutberidze's or otherwise, have a huge level of depth or musicality, simply because they are too young to have developed it. I think fans have to adjust their expectations downwards for this, and try harder to judge it as what it is, rather than what - in the probably mythical 'complete package' - it would be. Swings and roundabouts, folks.

 

[Shayuki]

They’re not absurd to me. I don’t think Kostornaia is musical either. I agree with you that over-the-top facial expressions are not necessary for interpretation; in fact, I prefer expression with the body, not the face. I disagree that Kostornaia inteprets music in this way. She does not; on the contrary, she has little connection to music and skates right over it. She did this multiple times with Nationals and Europeans (both programs) being the best examples. The transitions make it worse. (The flying leaf after the 3A has to go.) Kostornaia performs with the beauty and crispness of her elements, not with an innate understanding of music.

Yep, Kostornaya specifically isn't innately musical in my opinion. Never shown anything of the sort. I'm a musician myself for what that's worth.

They have had more time to mature and evolve, musically, intellectually and emotionally. It is what it is, none of the current crop of young athletically wondrous teenagers, Tutberidze's or otherwise, have a huge level of depth or musicality, simply because they are too young to have developed it. I think fans have to adjust their expectations downwards for this, and try harder to judge it as what it is, rather than what - in the probably mythical 'complete package' - it would be. Swings and roundabouts, folks.

Well the level of musical connection one pretty much needs to develop at a very early age, before 6 or some such, starting late it's impossible to get. Of course a person can still learn to perform beautifully but it still is quite different from these skaters who can connect with the music on a whole another level.

 

[Skatesocs]

They have had more time to mature and evolve, musically, intellectually and emotionally. It is what it is, none of the current crop of young athletically wondrous teenagers, Tutberidze's or otherwise, have a huge level of depth or musicality, simply because they are too young to have developed it. I think fans have to adjust their expectations downwards for this, and try harder to judge it as what it is, rather than what - in the probably mythical 'complete package' - it would be. Swings and roundabouts, folks.

? It's just a comparison of how much better she could be - nothing to do with expectations or otherwise. I have very low expectations from the skaters in any field currently. But no, I think Kwan at 16 had better musicality than Kostornaia, too, not just much later.

 

[Scott512]

Just like I said, people who barely noticed him two monts ago are suddenly his most devoted fans and credit him with literally everything. That's not the game I play.

They won't miss a beat without him. Young Sergei seems to be a good up-and-coming coach and the girls like him hopefully he will thrive with plushenko. But that remains to be seen and now there's a hell of a lot of pressure on young Sergei.

 

[Skatesocs]

They won't miss a beat without him.

Except for all the ones in that school's programs?

 

[flanker]

They won't miss a beat without him. Young Sergei seems to be a good up-and-coming coach and the girls like him hopefully he will thrive with plushenko. But that remains to be seen and now there's a hell of a lot of pressure on young Sergei.

Yes, he definitely is very promising and no doubt he was very useful for TT, but all those overstatements went too far.

 

[SkateSkates]

You can not like Aliona’s artistry or not think she’s musical, but saying she lacks multi directional skating and 1 foot skating is just factually incorrect. She is the only female skater doing difficult 1 foot skating featuring turns in both directions into her 3A. She also does the choctaw counter entry to her flips, and multi direction turns, opposite direction waltz jump/counter into her 2A with an opposite direction turn out of it. She has also done spirals, Ina bauers, split jumps etc into her jumps. Not sure where this criticism is coming from.

 

[lopsilceci]

Yes, he definitely is very promising and no doubt he was very useful for TT, but all those overstatements went too far.

People giving him all the credit for any progress made by novices, juniors and seniors...
If I were Eteri I would just get on my knees and beg him until he comes back