Are you seeing something in how this girl skates? From the rest of the body, I mean...?
2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
- Thread starter flanker
- Start date
- Status
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
This girl makes the biggest effort of her life to make her edges that deep. It’s not effortless at all. It doesn’t matter if your edges are deep, but you have to use your whole body to make it happen.
I can have deep edges for 1 second on ice having the biggest effort of my life, but it doesn’t mean it has quality.
For me, having deep edges but being sloppy to make them happen, having zero posture and balance, and having weird movements during the step sequence while trying to hold the edges makes the “good/better skating skills” point invalid.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
Great point peas. People are not always on the same page here because of the language barrier. I think it's likely that not everyone gets my sometimes ubiquitous sense of humor.
Certainly people from many countries would not understand some English-speaking humor or inside jokes.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
Actually, the first thing I thought when I saw that clip was what a great use of rhythmic knee action and deep edges throughout those clear turns while maintaining speed. I thought it was a clear display of deep edges during transitions, but I guess not for everyone. I think we are talking about different things, since I am talking about her transitions and you wrote back with a StSq. I will agree with you that Aliona’s step sequences for the most part have not been a good display of her edge work. The choreography of most of them has not been good, cramming in too many turns, chopping up her flow, and putting unnatural turns together for no reason. I mean who else uses a forward inside loop in a cluster? The choreo for her Adios Nonino StSq was good but didn’t have enough turns for some reason for a level 4, which is again an issue of choreography.
For me, another Sofia is a better example of excellent edge work - Dzepka. She is far and away the best for her age in the edges department.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2019
Just look at the lack of acceleration and speed after the jump on the spot after the 3 jump sequence, when she usually bolt and cross the rink like a racing car.
Her expression at EU was "I'm dead tired".
We definitely did not see her vampire face that day.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2019
This woman's passion for skating is the golden standard
I don't see where Kostornaia's edges are shallow in the steps?
And why shouldn't I post about her lack of musicality and artistry? I even tried to back up my claims each time, and even said some of the things don't matter that much, and she has her strengths, and can improve on others. If someone believes Kostornaia is already perfect... that's not something most would agree on. Even if you think she already has great musicality, it can be improved. And that's not even getting into me never saying anything about her having no musicality, or no artistry given that I clearly said she skates with confidence and can have animated facial expressions. Not everyone displays "blind bias" when they disagree with fans. Pity the opposite can almost never be said...
Now that the thread has cooled down... did you watch Karen Chen, Wakaba Higuchi, and Eunsoo Lim, in order to understand why I would say that "no, Kostornaia is not the most naturally musical skater"? And do you understand, what I mean when I say "not being naturally musical doesn't matter" if you watched how Miyahara is skating currently? Or how the choreography of Kostornaia's programs somehow being showcases of interpretations doesn't make overall sense?
And why shouldn't I post about her lack of musicality and artistry? I even tried to back up my claims each time, and even said some of the things don't matter that much, and she has her strengths, and can improve on others. If someone believes Kostornaia is already perfect... that's not something most would agree on. Even if you think she already has great musicality, it can be improved. And that's not even getting into me never saying anything about her having no musicality, or no artistry given that I clearly said she skates with confidence and can have animated facial expressions. Not everyone displays "blind bias" when they disagree with fans. Pity the opposite can almost never be said...
Why? You said her SP was about loss. Where did she showcase a soulful quality related to loss? All I got out of you was an insinuation that maybe the ones who didn't like it just wanted to see her do flirty expressions.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2014
Mostly what I see from Muravyova’s steps is less glide and flow, and a big reliance on sharply yanking herself through turns with her upper body—this in particular is really obvious compared to Kostornaia. From my perspective what you’ve shown of Muravyova is much more effortful skating.
But it’s comparing Muravyova’s steps to Kostornaia’s transitions. Kostornaia’s step sequences are not the paragon of technique, granted. But the steps, turns, moves, and just basic skating like crossovers and gliding she has throughout her programs outside the steps are usually better, on the whole, than what Muravyova showed in that performance. Kostornaia’s skating is smoother, steadier, and she can carry a lot more power.
https://youtu.be/hAJf7zc6S_8?t=172 Even comparing Muravyova's steps to these, I for one don't see how Kostornaia's steps are shallow even if you want to argue they're not deep like Muravyova's. Her technique is overrated - but it's still better than Muravyova's. Much better use of, well, knees and ankles and feet to do the steps, instead of flinging your upper body around.
That step sequence does show what I said about Kostornaia's arms however. They're not the best - even outside of steps, but definitely in them. With stronger basics, she'll be able to use them much more easily and purposefully.
That step sequence does show what I said about Kostornaia's arms however. They're not the best - even outside of steps, but definitely in them. With stronger basics, she'll be able to use them much more easily and purposefully.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2014
I mean, I agree Kostornaia's steps are overall more effortless, and she definitely uses her body better. But her weaknesses are always very magnified in her step sequences for some reason. In that skate, for example, I don't think that the cluster on her right foot was exceptionally well-done, and she has a tendency to hop her turns which really comes out in her steps--on a couple of her turns there she almost lifts off the ice, and I think more often than not it's why she loses levels.
I think it's because she's still needing more work on her basics, to be fair. Someone mentioned she does "unnatural" clusters, which might also be a part of it. It's also a pretty fast tempo, which might need better skating skills than she currently has. The steps and the skating level needed to get a level four ("full body movement for 1/3 of the sequence") will make it harder within the sequence, and I am not sure Eteri and co even understand that. We see Eteri skaters fling themselves around usually, but since Kostornaia doesn't do that as much... I'm not sure how they make her deal with that.
You can see the forward inside loop at 3:18. It's very much Eteri's nonsense choreo, even if very difficult. It would at least make it better if it were at least with the music.
You can see the forward inside loop at 3:18. It's very much Eteri's nonsense choreo, even if very difficult. It would at least make it better if it were at least with the music.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
What I’ve noticed (although I cannot express fully into words, so maybe you guys can help me) is that she’s losing her speed.
I even remember one poster saying that watched her live and was impressed by how she looked slowlier than they imagined.
The Adios Nonino performance strikes me as one of her performances with the best speed.
I wonder what that could be - puberty, being more muscular, exhaustion, lack of work in this part, injury, choreography that doesn’t help her showcase that.
And now I get what you meant about the musicality. Although I must say Aliona is not the most musical skater I’ve ever seen, I still think she’s musical. What I also noticed is that her SP was just adapted to the 3 Axel, and even so she does her transition quite in the music, but she sometimes gets lost in the harder elements and loses track of the music (although I should say she follows the music with her movements a lot of the times - I wonder if this is also not a choreography issue, like that they didn’t consider what she would actually be able to do to fit the music vs. “this is the program, do this and make it happen, we’re not gonna change it”.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2011
although i haven't noticed a decline of speed in her skating, i think puberty/growing would be the cause if she has lost speed. you can fly around the ice a lot easier when you're little, things are a lot different when you start developing and going through puberty.
i did notice all 3 girls looked really tired at Euros hence the mistakes, and i think that was a matter of 2nd half of the season exhaustion and training.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
Guys, wasn’t something in Russian Figure Skating in Krasnoyarsk? I’ve just read about the fire
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
I guess that's fair. I wasn't trying to say that Muravyova's technique's better overall. And using her StSq here probably wasn't a very good idea anyway. The main reservation I had against using the one I'd have wanted to was her age, but oh well.
Would you like to go through this step sequence by Ksenia Melkumova, age 10 (1:36 in the video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcSp_7gr3js&t=96s
And make a similar comparison? Personally I've considered her a generational skating skill talent.
Live gala of young figure skaters of "Army of figure skating" club with A.Grishin comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhS3KDAe0uc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhS3KDAe0uc
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
First live skating of the season, even only on demonstration with very young skaters? Snow Leopards rink being used.
Young skaters, young trainers, including Aidan Pitkeyev.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2014
I feel like SS change with growth just like anything else in skating, so it does make me nervous to compare really young skaters with older ones. That said I'm impressed by Melkumova here. She doesn't seem like she has to force her turns as much, she's fast and has flow. I do think she could "grip" the ice better.
I agree with cohen-esque on the age part, but also the skills. I'm quite impressed outside of the steps. The steps are in need of work, but I think with what she needs to do there, it's still impressive taking her age into account. Some of the clusters are good even without that consideration!
- Status
