2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[fabienne1996]

https://matchtv.ru/figure-skating/m...ornoj_Rossii_nachnutsa_v_Novogorske_9_avgusta

No press or TV will be allowed at junior test skates (due to corona). All participants will go through mandatory COVID-19 testing before the test skates.

Couldnt the reporters or at least camera mens/woman also get a test and if negative could have been allowed to film?. Does anyone know how it will be for senior test skates?

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[AshWagsFan]

It's hard to reply and not to start just one more battle over the opinion "did Zhenya do well to move" or "is she better now than she wasn't". Like Sasha moved, Aliona moved and the wounds are still fresh and now going back to Zhenya once again? It's the mine field

I will try to reply for myself and my opinion. Starting with Zhenya. Her beginnings with Orser were truly rough and it would make no sense to deny it, that time or now. Then she became world bronze medalist. As for the standings, it was a satisfaction, definitely, not for everyone it was satisfaction in regard of style and skating. There are those who say her skating wasn't as good as she was before and there are those who find her skating more entertaining, artistic etc. It's not a secret that those two camps prefer different things in skating and above all different persons (Eteri/Orser or generally north american style of skating). As for me, my favourite programs of her still remain 2015/16 season FS and 2016/17 season SP. From her new programs I liked Tosca the most, her previous SP I didn't like. I'm indifferent about 2018/19 FS (partially because Tango is not my favourite tune), but I was also more or less indifferent about 2016/17 FS (though in that year's competition it was still one of the best).

But people can argue about those things, focusing on points or artistry, but there is one more thing to consider. Did the transfer fulfilled Zhenya's own expectations? I can guess she truly liked the new environment but let's face it, one of the main motives was truly to stay competitive in the future and I don't think that particularly this goal was completely fulfilled. Of course we don't have an alternative reality at our disposal where she would stay with Eteri and we could compare how her career would look like in that case.

Now as for Aliona and Sasha. Well, whatever people (incl. me, I would not deny it) objected about Znenya's transfer, Orser was and is still oéne of the icons of figure skating, some consider him the GOAT among the coaches and were pretty outraged it wasn't him who FS award. So there was some guarantee he is competent to trrain a star like Zhenya. On the other hand, and I know many will disagree now, Plushy, with Rozanov or without, is nobody as a coach. Sounds harsh but if you try to be objective you should admit this to yourself. It's too much to lose with very little in return. Yes, there was a time when Eteri was nobody as a coach, but at that time anyone who would come to FFKKR and said "let's give her two of our most promising hopes for medals at the highest competitions to train", he would be laughed and ridiculed. Something like that wasn't possible till Eteri built her emprire with her bare hands. Plushy has a name as a skater, contacts and money, but nothing of it makes him a coach. His excessively self-confident claims do not help to improve his reputation.

From the perspective of coaching, it's like taking the latest clerk and make him a CEO. maybe he will surprise us, but I think one should first prove himself and only then he should be entrusted to take care about the values, not the other way around. As for the girls, yes, if the restuilts will be unsatisfying, I will say that, I don't see a reason why being correct in such case, because it would just prove it was a very bad decision. If the results will be good, that is a question. Many people will be glad that the chance for medals weren't thrown out of the window. I am quite confident that programs could be good, Nastya's case shows Plushy can at least obtain good choreos, but that's not everything. The other thing is woring on techique and maybe even more importantly work with the psychics of the skaters. We know that from this perspective eteri is able to prepare skaters even in the most difficult situations. How many people expected Alina's meltdown before 2019 Worlds, many people didn't expect Kamila will win JGPF just three weeks in trinings and without quads against Alysa or that even Daria would become so consistent throughout the season that she will become world junior silver medalist. In this regard I have much stronger doubts about Plushy's team than with the technique itself.

So, that's my view, I hope I answered fully, I've written that while watching one old, naive but charming western in a way.

Wow! very detailed response, I think the many points you hit on are strong arguments, and I agree with you. Rozanov/Plusheno need to build a reputation before they are renowned as good coaches. Maybe this will be the breakthrough for angels of plushie lo, who knows.

 

[Fried]

Man I know she was contractually forced to write this and probably didn't even write it herself but couldn't they keep the bs a bit lower to not sound this fake? As if Trusova is knowledgeable about any Italian brands, leave alone have a favorite leave alone that one haha.
But good for her, Plushenko keeps his promises and does what he's good for.

I wish you were right, but unfortunately I have to say that it would have been better if you had kept your BS a little lower. You are completely wrong. In one of the many Trusova fan accounts on Instagram, a photo from last year was shown in the stories today and now guess what was on it. Correct! Sasha. With a Graziella & Bracciallini bag. I'm sorry to have to say this, but si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

 

[lopsilceci]

If they improve ( Aliona learns quads, Sasha competes 3A and improves artistry) - people may say “it’s great that they left Eteri,” or “wow, Plushenko/Rozanov are amazing coaches! More people should go to them, not just Eteri, for success.” On the flip side, as I said earlier, if they don’t improve and possible decline, people may say, “of course they did decline- Eteri is the best coach, they should’ve stayed with her.”

How can they decline when they're at their prime and they have by their side the beautiful man who cracked the 3A/quad secrets and is a better choreographer than Daniil/Eteri?

 

[Mathman]

Man I know she was contractually forced to write this and probably didn't even write it herself but couldn't they keep the bs a bit lower to not sound this fake? As if Trusova is knowledgeable about any Italian brands, leave alone have a favorite leave alone that one haha.

But good for her, Plushenko keeps his promises and does what he's good for..

Well, I Googled the name, so now I at least know what product they produce.

All of this makes me wonder if the current group of skating prodegies -- the Artists Formerly Known as 3A -- are seeing the hand-writing on the wall. Their time to dominate the skating ranks was yesterday. Their time to make whatever money they can is today. By 2022 it will be the next set of jumping marvels.

 

[nussnacker]

I remember that very well ! (that countries are allowed to substitute in only 2 disciplines) That's exactly my point !
Initially, the plan was to have one ice dance team (Bobrova/Soloviev) and 2 ladies (Lipnitskaya, Sotnikova). That's what everyone was preparing for, including Sotnikova. At that time, Sotnikova was the more experienced skater. I wouldn't exactly call a 4-time Russian national champion "a wild card"... Yes, she wasn't the most consistent skater during that season. But the last 2 competitions proved that Adelina and Yulia were very similar in their abilities. In fact, Adelina received higher PC scores than Yulia at the Europeans ! Also, team Russia held additional test skates behind closed doors etc. For Yulia, this was her first full season in seniors. Experts were equally concerned about her that, considering her young age, she might crash and burn at some point... (which unfortunately proved to be the case).

What happened was - during the last test skates (a week or so before the team event) team Russia came to the conclusion that Bobrova/Soloviev were not strong enough in both of their programs. An idea arose that they could be replaced by Ilinykh/Katsalapov for the FD (the legendary "Swan Lake", for which they eventually won bronze). But that meant that team Russia would need to get rid of one entry. They couldn't remove the substitute for pairs, because pairs was the very first event in individual competition. What they could do was - get rid of one of the girls. There was no formal decision yet which girl would it be, or whether the federation would carry out this plan at all. This is when Tutberidze intervened, complained to the Minister of Sports and asked for Yulia not to be excluded. This is when the Minister asked her – in case they really ended up with only one spot for ladies, would Yulia be able to do both programs.



Controversial stuff regarding Tutberidze has a tendency to mysteriously disappear from Russian web, you know... I couldn't immediately find those particular articles in search results. I'll dig through some newspaper archives as soon as I have a bit of time. I'll let you know in case I find it.



No, it's not the same logic with Kovtun, BTW... The completely unpredictable one was Pluschenko, not Kovtun – because Pluschenko was severely injured. However, his actual skating abilities didn't matter THAT much, because he is the NATIONAL HERO for years and years. Kovtun... Kovtun who ? It HAD to be Pluschenko who carried home the gold, at ANY cost – because of TV ratings, sponsors' interest etc. It was no particular secret that everyone expected for Pluschenko to withdraw due to injury after the team event and get a medical replacement for Kovtun (because you are not allowed to replace an athlete during the Olympics unless there's an injury). Unfortunately, the officials got carried away with the euphoria after team victory. Also, there are contradicting reports whether Pluschenko insisted that he would skate in the individual event as well, or he was forced to skate by the federation and put his health in grave danger... But that's a whole another story.



I basically said that Tutberidze orchestrated for Yulia to be the sole ladies gold medalist (or that's what she expected at the time...) – not because YULIA necessarily needed that, but because Tutberidze HERSELF needed that ! The spotlight was already on Yulia, she was the SYMBOL of Sochi Olympics... She was the media darling long before she had even stepped on the Olympic ice. Yes, SHE didn't need to “wear herself out”, because people LOVED her – and they probably would have loved her anyway, even if she fell a few times and placed off the podium (which is exactly what happened in the individual event). She's a lovely, hardworking girl ! Very young at the time – the youngest member of team Russia at those Olympics, if I'm not mistaken. What is there not to love...? “Oh well, better luck at the next Olympics !”
However, who was Tutberidze at the time ? Sure, she was a successful coach. But she wasn't that global powerhouse who she is now, a houshold name in Russia. SHE needed to establish her name as the best ladies coach in the world. For that, she needed for Yulia to win, but also – for no other Russian lady to win. Why would you prefer being one of TWO Russian coaches who can lead a girl to an Olympic gold, when you have an opportunity to be the only ONE ? That would have made very little difference to Yulia whether or not Adelina skated in the team event, but it would have made a big difference for Tutberidze.
Am I really not explaining this clear enough...?



A university professor doesn't claim that he “made you” from scratch, does he...? He doesn't take credit for teaching you 4th grade math, when there was clearly someone else who did that. That's the difference. Credit should be taken where credit is due. Tutberidze routinely claims that these girls would have been NOTHING without her, even though they arrived at her camp with all of the triples. For example, Kostornaia... She was already an amazing-amazing young skater when she came to Tutberidze. Sure, she lacked polish and consistency – that's what she improved. And she learned the 3A. But she has been skating with Tutberidze for only the last 3 years – out of the 17 years of her life. There are also other coaches who deserve credit for raising her, not only-ONLY Tutberidze.

The fact that we had never heard this story about Anna – that she was asked by Tutberidze to leave her group (read, kicked out on street) and not come back until she had learned all of the triples on her own – it just proves Tutberidze's methods one more time. The story was published 2 weeks ago, you can read it here:
https://www.gazeta.ru/sport/2020/07/13/a_13151275.shtml
That's a long interview with Russian coach Viktor Adonyev who worked with Anna at the time.

My point is - in case a coach wants to work with very advanced skaters only, such as Orser for example – fine ! That's fair game. But the financing in Russia vs. U.S./Canada is very very different. In the U.S., it's normal for a senior national level skater to keep paying for everything from her own pocket (maybe with a little financial aid from the federation). In Russia – it's NOT ! That's what state-sponsored sports schools are for. Athletes' parents at this level don't pay for the coach, ice time etc., because most of the time they would simply never be able to afford it. Therefore it's completely inappropriate to kick someone “out on street” – to leave Anna without the backing of any sports school, so she had NO state-sponsored coach, no ice, no nothing. In case Tutberidze didn't want to waste time with her, she shouldn't have accepted Anna in the first place. Now, Anna was stuck – apparently she couldn't go to another coach at another school, because then she wouldn't be taken back by Tutberidze. So her parents had no choice but pay...

You should provide a link where she says “Aliona was a nobody before me, I taught her everything she knows” or else those are empty words.
Anna left out on the street? Come on, Jesus Christ

The rest is just pure nonsense, oh man.
Russian parents DO pay for the sport in Russia up until a certain age. Fed requires certain level to be achieved by the athlete before they can give funding to that athlete, it’s not free for everyone.

 

[nussnacker]

Couldnt the reporters or at least camera mens/woman also get a test and if negative could have been allowed to film?. Does anyone know how it will be for senior test skates?

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I think they’re keeping the number of attendees to a minimum, so that they won’t waste tests unnecessarily. This year junior test skates will be completely closed to public.
There was no information about senior test skates, but I would assume it would be very similar there too.

 

[macy]

are there any merit or evidence yet to the rumors about Valieva leaving Eteri and Medvedeva leaving Brian?

 

[el henry]

If someone let's say believes in hell, he doesn't need to quote all mentions in the holy manuscripts to be recognized as acting according to his confession, right?

But don't you need agreement that they believe in hell? (If I am understanding the argument. Which it is perfectly possible I am not ).

I am on Goldenskate, as I've said before, because I like reading discussions on Goldenskate. Believe it or not, I don't even mind reading folks who disagree with me. They may be wrong, but I like to hear what they have to say

But I like to know the basis of the disagreement. "Everyone's picking on Eteri" or "Everyone hates Brian" doesn't tell me anything. And "well, just read everything that they ever said and it's obvious that they're picking on Eteri or they hate Brian" also doesn't tell me anything. (I'm not saying you said that, I'm just saying to explain my mindset).

It's also difficult because I can't wrap my mind around being the fan of a coach, and I am sure that those who are a fan of a coach don't understand why it's so difficult for me.

And I appreciate that you are answering.

 

[fabienne1996]

are there any merit or evidence yet to the rumors about Valieva leaving Eteri and Medvedeva leaving Brian?

No no evidence as far as i know correct me if i am wrong. But from what we know kamila was at the trainingscamp, but is one of the ones who hasnt liked eteris post about aljona leaving. And zhenya is at the moment training in cska , has videochats while training with brian , and tarasova is also helping her.

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[Mathman]

are there any merit or evidence yet to the rumors about Valieva leaving Eteri and Medvedeva leaving Brian?

I heard that Medvedeva is going back to Tutberiodze and Valieva is going to Orser.

 

[nussnacker]

I heard that Medvedeva is going back to Tutberiodze and Valieva is going to Orser.

Netflix should be filming a skating drama tv show about this! Legit, russian skating offers so many stories, way more interesting than what Netflix filmed last year.

 

[flanker]

I heard that Medvedeva is going back to Tutberiodze and Valieva is going to Orser.

I heard (and I belive it was even mentioned here) Zhenya is going to Plushenko as well. There are so many variations of gossips, that of course sometimes one can hit the spot

As for Valieva, I understand she is any coaches dream to train her now and it wouldn't surprise me that Plushy at least could show his interest (couldn't blame him for that), though the transfer sounds improbable to me now. With Aliona, whatever the true reason is, there are still nearly two months till the senior test skates, but just a week before the junior ones? It could happen the same time Sasha moved or it can happen next year, but in this moment that would be hugely irresponsible. Of course with who-knows-how-the-season-will-look-like before us some can think there is plenty of time even for such last minute change, but there is still risk that if you disappear for some time, somebody else can take your spot. So, if that would happen now, it truly should be considered irresponsible no matter of anyone's attitude towards Eteri, Plushy or anyone else.

 

[brakes]

She is here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CDURzYTpJEg/

Though of course nothing can be excluded now, if anything this is the valuable experience of this summer.

Where is she in the photo?

 

[flanker]

But don't you need agreement that they believe in hell? (If I am understanding the argument. Which it is perfectly possible I am not ).

I am on Goldenskate, as I've said before, because I like reading discussions on Goldenskate. Believe it or not, I don't even mind reading folks who disagree with me. They may be wrong, but I like to hear what they have to say

But I like to know the basis of the disagreement. "Everyone's picking on Eteri" or "Everyone hates Brian" doesn't tell me anything. And "well, just read everything that they ever said and it's obvious that they're picking on Eteri or they hate Brian" also doesn't tell me anything. (I'm not saying you said that, I'm just saying to explain my mindset).

It's also difficult because I can't wrap my mind around being the fan of a coach, and I am sure that those who are a fan of a coach don't understand why it's so difficult for me.

And I appreciate that you are answering.

I'm saying that you can judge person's attitude (belief, opinion etc.) to something even if he doen't express it the way I did (which was of course hyperbole, but such are not rare here ) by his actions, claims, attitudes etc.

Disagreement is a common thing, people can explain in distinguished words that it is the result of the freedom of speech and thinking, but let's be honest, it happens rarely that people with different opinions just end with "I disagree but I respect you", partially because there is often something personal (and in this case the personal thing plays a big role in it, because subjectively many people like different things and think what they like is better than what the others like). And even if it ends as a draw, than many people would make it "yes, it is a draw, but for us".

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

All of this makes me wonder if the current group of skating wonders -- the Artists Formerly Known as 3A -- are seeing the hand-writing on the wall. Their time to dominate the skating ranks was yesterday. Their time to make whatever money they can is today. By 2022 it will be the next set of jumping marvels.

When skaters are doing well, it's probably hard for them to imagine that they'll be struggling in a few years. Even as fans, we're usually overconfident in our favorite skater's ability to "beat the odds" and perform well over the long term. I hope the coaching changes aren't about money though, because Alena was thriving with her previous team, and Sasha was doing really well with Eteri, too.

 

[flanker]

Where is she in the photo?

Click on the picture, you will see the tags. Kamila is in the middle of the back row, even from this angle you can recognize her round face.

As for the gossips, remember that also other gossips started just because Alina wasn't on this picture, only then it transpired she felt ill that day. As I've said, there are so many gossips that sometimes some can turn true, but that's more like a question of probability of the random selection. Much more of them burn out during their first day of life (or till TSL would start to support it like Eteri went to America to team Diana with Kolesnik ).

 

[Fluture]

are there any merit or evidence yet to the rumors about Valieva leaving Eteri and Medvedeva leaving Brian?

Valieva leaving Eteri is almost impossible as junior test skates are scheduled to happen in like two weeks. Personally, I think Plushenko was exaggerating about that supposed sensational transfer and we’re all falling for it, speculating and wondering. Exactly what he wants. Publicity and drama.

There have been rumors about Zhenya and Brian before and they turned out to be wrong. I‘ll believe them only when there‘s confirmation.

 

[Alex65]

Man I know she was contractually forced to write this and probably didn't even write it herself but couldn't they keep the bs a bit lower to not sound this fake? As if Trusova is knowledgeable about any Italian brands, leave alone have a favorite leave alone that one haha.
But good for her, Plushenko keeps his promises and does what he's good for.

---------
.

I wish you were right, but unfortunately I have to say that it would have been better if you had kept your BS a little lower. You are completely wrong. In one of the many Trusova fan accounts on Instagram, a photo from last year was shown in the stories today and now guess what was on it. Correct! Sasha. With a Graziella & Bracciallini bag. I'm sorry to have to say this, but si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

https://sun9-73.userapi.com/c855532/v855532380/47239/tYgyn32nplo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WzKHQ9zm.png
Here is a photo of 2019, as well as a photo of Sasha's mother with a bag of the same company. Thanks GINO for the photo .:thumbsup:

 

[Fluture]

I
Controversial stuff regarding Tutberidze has a tendency to mysteriously disappear from Russian web, you know... I couldn't immediately find those particular articles in search results. I'll dig through some newspaper archives as soon as I have a bit of time. I'll let you know in case I find it.

Well, I do appreciate you taking your time to find it. Because in all honesty, without a link and evidence that this really happened like you said, I‘d have to consider it a mere conspiracy theory..