2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Tolstoj]

Veronika would’ve won the fs if not for the late start deduction, and it was a valid call unfortunately (just like last year Kamila got one too at test skates).
Besides, I’d argue it wasn’t evident for me why both got equal PCS in the short, given Nika’s mistake, and Akatieva was, imo, better in PCS in general.

I thought Akatieva had a better program (choreography), while Zhilina looked faster on the ice. I don't have the protocols, i'd be curious to see the GOE.

Overall like i said Akatieva deserved to win, the free was very close, i'd have given it to Zhilina because it was a clean performance vs one with a couple of mistakes.

While the other girl from CSKA Berestovskaya is charming but barely leaves the ice when she is jumping.

Are we talking about the elephant in the room, ie Rozanov's choreography?

It was awful, and I expect nothing better for Trusova and Kostornaia than last season, unfortunately.

I wasn't impressed by Zhilina programs, i'd agree, the free is definitely better than the short. That said i also think it's probably too early to judge, the thought process behind the programs seems the same it was before the switch, maybe even worse? she should hold these position longer, and in the future i'd like to see more expression.

They have Elena on board, i hope she'll help all these girls with the polishing: work on the figures, the posture, the positions,...

 

[Skatesocs]

I wasn't impressed by Zhilina programs, i'd agree. That said i also think it's probably too early to judge, the thought process behind the programs seems the same it was before the switch, maybe even worse? she should hold these position longer, and in the future i'd like to see more expression.

Artistically i almost liked more the other girl from Plushenko, Sofia Muravyova.

They have Elena on board, i hope she'll help all these girls with the polishing: work on the figures, the posture, the positions,...

Definitely wish they'd gone for a different choreographer. Kind of want Averbukh back lol. But yes, we will see if Plushenko will make a difference (probably not - his charisma sold his programs, and that's not really something he can teach).

 

[Mathman]

If he has great technique, he’ll teach great technique.

You never know. Sometimes a person can be so good at something that he can't teach it, because to him it is natural and obvious -- what's to teach?

 

[Skatesocs]

You never know. Sometimes a person can be so good at something that he can't teach it, because to him it is natural and obvious -- what's to teach?

This particular thing I'm split on with Plushy. I fully buy that he's probably still so passionate about skating, he'll try to drill that into his skaters and really study what is wrong. On the other hand, I'm not sure how good of a *teacher* he will be and get the point across to them.

I'll outright disagree on:
1. Plushenko trying to make tangible differences in the skaters he obtained - there is no time before the Olympics;
2. A good technician knowing how to teach good technique (much like you did);
3. Plushenko *having* good technique - his edge jumps and quad toe, yes, but not his Lutz, and definitely not the flip. His specialty was combos and insane difficulty.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

This particular thing I'm split on with Plushy. I fully buy that he's probably still so passionate about skating, he'll try to drill that into his skaters and really study what is wrong. On the other hand, I'm not sure how good of a *teacher* he will be and get the point across to them.

I'll outright disagree on:
1. Plushenko trying to make tangible differences in the skaters he obtained - there is no time before the Olympics;
2. A good technician knowing how to teach good technique (much like you did);
3. Plushenko *having* good technique - his edge jumps and quad toe, yes, but not his Lutz, and definitely not the flip. His specialty was combos and insane difficulty.

His lutz is similar to Alyona's. Not perfect. But not excissively pre-rotated either. Actually her jumps are much more toe pick assisted than his... She is better.
I have watched videos of her lutzes and flips. Front view, Back view, Sideways. She pre-rotates much less than Anna. Who said here that they have the same technique? Not true. Anna and Akatireva bend and twist their bodies and have an excessive pre-rotation. While Alyona's body is straight when she jumps.
Edit: She even jumped some of her lutzes (2017?2018?) with almost minimal pre-rotation. Sotskova's style. Have to take pictures. For a proof.

 

[Skatesocs]

His lutz is similar to Alyona's. Not perfect. But not excissively pre-rotated either.

 

[yume]

It is debatable how much came from Rozanov when he was at Khrustalny but truth is he has now learnt the Eteri way and will probably apply to all skaters he'll work at Plushenko's academy.
.

So he's creating chrystal bis. Without getting the same hate.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

What?

 

[Tolstoj]

So he's creating chrystal bis. Without getting the same hate.

Too early to say.

For me i just want to see these girls careers last a little longer, they are too talented and there is so much work there for a 1-2 seasons career only. Obviously it won't be possible for everyone because of injuries or interest, understandably, but none of the girls last over the age of 18-20 unless they change coaches? that is ridiculous.

 

[lopsilceci]

Kostornaya did credit Rozanov for the progress on the 3a.

Can someone point me to the source where Aliona credits Rozanov for her 3A?

All I remember was an interview where Aliona said (I'm paraphrasing) she was unsure and then Rozanov told her to just go for it and she did it. Like it was more of a mental thing than a technical thing.

I know Aliona already had a 3A before last season, only that she had stopped jumping it for some time.

 

[Yuna Luna]

Are we talking about the elephant in the room, ie Rozanov's choreography?

It was awful, and I expect nothing better for Trusova and Kostornaia than last season, unfortunately.

I know it’s subjective but I honestly liked Veronika’s programs, lol. I found them quite exciting to watch.

I still wish Plushenko had out-sourced a more established choreographer, but given the pandemic I understand if he couldn’t do so. Still, I hope that will happen for the Olympic season. Sasha & Alena deserve it.

 

[lopsilceci]

I'm curious if Alexandra Trusova , Aliona Kostornaya go to you and want to skate in your academy wouldn't you let them in? Plushenko opened his Academy 3 years ago but this was his dream from his childhood and didn't put this in his head today morning. He received a great chance with these amazing girls because he has a big name in figure skating.

Eteri also obtains, did not give birth to her skaters. Lambiel also trains some big names now who were "ready-made" . What is the different?

Eteri has never gotten any senior skaters who already had titles switch to her, at most we could say she gets promising juniors but she does the polishing, the packaging and makes them champions.

Lambiel has been coaching for some time now and it's only now that "ready-made" skaters are switching to him. And basically Shoma is the only skater he has that we could really call ready-made. Deniss has been with him since 2016, so his progress can be attributed to Lambiel. Alexia is also talented and well known but she hasn't really had great results yet.
And Rika has spent time training with his team but she's not coached by him, so, doesn't count.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Rozanov, Alyona and Triple Axel
RI: When was the first time you landed the 3A in the practice?
AK: If you mean this season it was when Anna was in the Challenger in Italy. If you mean the very first time it was after my first junior season - after the Worlds. I was attempting a 4T and a 4S on a harness. Later Rozanov offered me to try the 3A with the harness. I didn't really want to and started with the excuses. I tried a couple of times during the practice and by the evening he told me to try without the harness. I was surprised but decided to give it a try. The first attempt was lame, I fell. The coach told me to try to put more power into the jump and then it will work. And indeed I landed my second attempt. The next day we shot the video.

 

[mermaid]

Can someone point me to the source where Aliona credits Rozanov for her 3A?

All I remember was an interview where Aliona said (I'm paraphrasing) she was unsure and then Rozanov told her to just go for it and she did it. Like it was more of a mental thing than a technical thing.

I know Aliona already had a 3A before last season, only that she had stopped jumping it for some time.

Here's Aliona's interview where she says that Rozanov told her just to try 3A, first with the harness, then one more time without it
https://sport.business-gazeta.ru/article/254323

 

[Mathman]

I can be a figure skating coach! I will tell my students, "Just go for it." :yes:

 

[flanker]

Definitely wish they'd gone for a different choreographer. Kind of want Averbukh back lol. But yes, we will see if Plushenko will make a difference (probably not - his charisma sold his programs, and that's not really something he can teach).

Whatever people think about Rozanov's choreo, from the perspective of the subject he obviously is still one leg in Khrustalnyi. Ne me quitte pas, 2017-18 season music of Daria Panenkova is now music of Sofia Muravyeava, Samson and Delilah was 2016-17 music of Aliza Zagitova, R&J was a program of Aliona Kostornaia in 2018-19. I'm not comparing them, just saying that they chose the safe way of what's tested already.

 

[lopsilceci]

Rozanov, Alyona and Triple Axel
RI: When was the first time you landed the 3A in the practice?
AK: If you mean this season it was when Anna was in the Challenger in Italy. If you mean the very first time it was after my first junior season - after the Worlds. I was attempting a 4T and a 4S on a harness. Later Rozanov offered me to try the 3A with the harness. I didn't really want to and started with the excuses. I tried a couple of times during the practice and by the evening he told me to try without the harness. I was surprised but decided to give it a try. The first attempt was lame, I fell. The coach told me to try to put more power into the jump and then it will work. And indeed I landed my second attempt. The next day we shot the video.

Here's Aliona's interview where she says that Rozanov told her just to try 3A, first with the harness, then one more time without it
https://sport.business-gazeta.ru/article/254323

Thanks. I don't know why I thought Aliona already had 3A before last season Anyway... Seems like Rozanov's contribution was to help Aliona get the confidence to try the jump. The mental part is half of the battle.

 

[flanker]

I can be a figure skating coach! I will tell my students, "Just go for it." :yes:

Then I'm joining the camp of succesful coaches as well.

 

[Yuna Luna]

Can someone point me to the source where Aliona credits Rozanov for her 3A?

All I remember was an interview where Aliona said (I'm paraphrasing) she was unsure and then Rozanov told her to just go for it and she did it. Like it was more of a mental thing than a technical thing.

I know Aliona already had a 3A before last season, only that she had stopped jumping it for some time.

But I think you've hit the point with the highlighted statement. When Alena lost her triple axel just before the 2018-2019 season, everyone assumed it was because of puberty. But at Finlandia - where she finally landed it after a year - Aliona said in her interview that the reason why she couldn't do it was because she was afraid. To me, the way Alena spoke about Rozanov made it seem like he gave her some kind of psychological push which the other coaches couldn't, and I don't see how that's an any less valuable trait in a coach than being able to teach physical technique. I think people in general underestimate how much psychology affects jumping. I've always believed that many ladies who have the technique and strength to learn quads or triple axels end up never realizing their potential, because they don't think they can do it or they're too afraid to try.

But I'm really not trying to pretend that I know how much influence Rozanov had at Sambo 70; I'm only speaking about Aliona specifically. I do believe that when she left Sambo, she was following Rozanov. It would explain why her transfer was so late and emotional, as if she was torn between staying or leaving. But whatever the case may be, I hope Aliona's decisions work out for her and wish her much success next season.

 

[Skatesocs]

Whatever people think about Rozanov's choreo, from the perspective of the subject he obviously is still one leg in Khrustalnyi. Ne me quitte pas, 2017-18 season music of Daria Panenkova is now music of Sofia Muravyeava, Samson and Dalila was 2016-17 music of Aliza Zagitova, R&J was a program of Aliona Kostornaia in 2018-19. I'm not comparing them, just saying that they chose the safe way of what's tested already.

I think one could say that these are common choices anyway, but still... when your approach is, well, the same... I think you are open to criticism then. What are you bringing to the table?

It would be amazing if he went for a fully backloaded Don Quixote again they can just say "well, we are not going for the bonus, so CLEARLY we are doing this for artistic integrity". What can anyone say then?