2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Skatesocs]

I give arguments why I think so), not about people themselves, you strictly aim at me personally without even bothering with the content or giving counterarguments.

This. Especially when a certain somebody starts following you around to do that in every thread on the forum, and offers some ridiculous "personal belief" as supposedly a logical explanation. And starts lying about what was said by their own "side" in the thread as if everyone they don't like is incapable of reading, and tries to make it look like you're a person incapable of being moral. What they're achieving by doing so on a skating forum is beyond me I guess it's just that annoying to be told you're maaaaybe wrong.

 

[Tolstoj]

What's so hard to understand with
I'm not comparing them
or
he's still under influence IMO. That's said without positive or negative evaluation, just how it appears
which is obviously accepted even by his fans.

Again, it's (not even) funny to be constantly blamed for being "fanatical ET fan" and all that stuff, while being forced to witness how my (and not only my) words are blatantly twisted, words and intentions I didn't say are being put into my mouth and yet it is somehow claimed I'm "promoting aggression here".

You don't want to be called fan, that's ok, to me it wasn't that the point anyway.

The music drama from both sides is a weak argument cause the picks are not particularly original from both sides, and even on the choreography it was hard to expect big changes over few months in this season with all the issues that coronavirus brought.

If people gave a pass to Usacheva's not-so-good new free cause "they can always improve it mid-season" the same can apply here.

So in the end not really surprising that Zhilina still looks like a skater from Tutberidze school, however scores are already getting lower and there are some politics behind that.

 

[Alex65]

Calling someone a “fanatic” isn’t acceptable too, and it’s an attack of a person and their character, not of their statements. Saying something is ridiculous or nonsense on the other hand isn’t attacking one’s character, it’s an “attack” of an argument. It’s not the first time you called someone a fanatic either.

When claiming moral high ground, try and follow your own principles first. You know the saying about seeing a fly in someone’s eye, right?[/QUOT
My google translator translates fan ( поклонник) as fanatic? Tell me what word I should use so that it doesn't sound offensive. Thank.

 

[Skatesocs]

You don't want to be called fan, that's ok, to me it wasn't that the point anyway.

I don't want to put words into Flanker's mouth, but since one was a response to me, I think even being called a fan isn't the point. He wasn't saying that it was copied, just that currently it seems like Rozanov has not even found a voice. Even you and I noticed that stylistically, he just went one further and called out that since Rozanov is still picking those warhorses that Eteri's done, and is still choreographing like someone from the Eteri camp, it looks like he's going with what he knows works. Of course it might change, and he might even be wrong. It was his current opinion and perception.

 

[Fried]

(...) Zhilina still looks like a skater from Tutberidze school, however scores are already getting lower and there are some politics behind that.

This is the real scandal and therefore much more outrageous than the way certain skaters change coaches.

 

[Skatesocs]

My google translator translates fan ( поклонник) as fanatic? Tell me what word I should use so that it doesn't sound offensive. Thank.

If you want to just speak about someone neutrally, then yes, "fan" is correct.

 

[flanker]

You don't want to be called fan, that's ok, to me it wasn't that the point anyway.

The music drama from both sides is a weak argument cause the picks are not particularly original from both sides, and even on the choreography it was hard to expect big changes over few months in this season with all the issues that coronavirus brought.

If people gave a pass to Usacheva's not-so-good new free cause "they can always improve it mid-season" the same can apply here.

So in the end not really surprising that Zhilina still looks like a skater from Tutberidze school, however scores are already getting lower and there are some politics behind that.

Your point (maybe not the intended, but the obvious) was "Eteri fans now blame Rozanov for copying", which literally nobody did. As for me, I openly said I'm not comparing anything and I didn't make any comments about the choreos here. Actually I made some in the thread devoted to the Moscow Cup, where I disliked the SP but quite praised FS of Veronika, but also didn't make any comment about "Zhilina still looks like a skater from Tutberidze" nor I did anything in that way here. So either you missed something, wrongly understood or you openly said what's not true.

Edit: Skatesocs explained it perfectly.

 

[Decoder]

I see someone complaining that "Any word spoken without enthusiasm about ET is anger and hatred."

Really? I actually see more posts not only criticizing, but trashing Eteri group - their bad techniques, copying/stealing ideas, bad choreography， botox, acting in front of camera, not caring for athletes long term career and health, .... Several are very "creative" and take every opportunity to try to prove that Eteri group is not only "not that good", but actually bad.

And in the mean time you cry out loud, complaining to be accused unfairly? When few people tried to counter-argue, they became fanatic? What a joke!

Come on, don't be a spoiled kid.

 

[Alex65]

I see someone complaining that "Any word spoken without enthusiasm about ET is anger and hatred."

Really? I actually see more posts not only criticizing, but trashing Eteri group - their bad techniques, copying/stealing ideas, bad choreography， botox, acting in front of camera, not caring for athletes long term career and health, .... Several are very "creative" and take every opportunity to try to prove that Eteri group is not only "not that good", but actually bad.

And in the mean time you cry out loud, complaining to be accused unfairly? When few people tried to counter-argue, they became fanatic? What a joke!

Come on, don't be a spoiled kid.

It's funny. Let's take a look at the last few pages. There are hardly a couple of posts with at least some kind of criticism of TT, but however two dozen with a shout in her defense.

 

[Fried]

I see someone complaining that "Any word spoken without enthusiasm about ET is anger and hatred."

Really? I actually see more posts not only criticizing, but trashing Eteri group - their bad techniques, copying/stealing ideas, bad choreography， botox, acting in front of camera, not caring for athletes long term career and health, .... Several are very "creative" and take every opportunity to try to prove that Eteri group is not only "not that good", but actually bad.

And in the mean time you cry out loud, complaining to be accused unfairly? When few people tried to counter-argue, they became fanatic? What a joke!

Come on, don't be a spoiled kid.

Well, for the youngest days that may be true. The Eteri disciples have become a little more reserved since Sasha's and especially Aljona's departure. #TeamTutberidzeForProgress lighthouse Edwin has immediately withdrawn completely because the facade of the morally superior team Tut (quote: Plushenko is a farmer!) could no longer be maintained, even with the greatest contortions. Frankly, I'm a little surprised at the change in mood here. When I look at the reactions after Sasha's departure. The immediate end of her career was not only feared, but decided. And now many say that Sasha's choice was, maybe, spot on. Well, that's fine with me.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

This is the real scandal and therefore much more outrageous than the way certain skaters change coaches.

Agree.

 

[zounger]

At the moment I see 3 main directions in Russian ladies skating. First is keep Medvedeva close for the next seasons team. Second is keep Trusova's technical advantage as long as possible with a relative PCS push as a pillow. Third, push PCS wise, who ever survives from TT this and next season.

Kostornaya can be back in consideration during this time. Tuktamysheva in case 2-3 will hit by puberty hard next two seasons.

As for test skates, I never understood it's importance especially in the way that they are done lately which is mainly commercial.

 

[yume]

You don't want to be called fan, that's ok, to me it wasn't that the point anyway.

The music drama from both sides is a weak argument cause the picks are not particularly original from both sides, and even on the choreography it was hard to expect big changes over few months in this season with all the issues that coronavirus brought.

If people gave a pass to Usacheva's not-so-good new free cause "they can always improve it mid-season" the same can apply here.

So in the end not really surprising that Zhilina still looks like a skater from Tutberidze school, however scores are already getting lower and there are some politics behind that.

With major mistake in SP she got almost same PCS than Akatieva who was clean and had a harder tech content. 137 (without the call) is a nice score for what she done in FS.

I love that theory saying that when you leave Team Tut your pcs/scores drop magically.

Most of people doesn't seem to notice that most of skaters who leave have worse performnaces after. But with worse performances apparently they should get the same pcs or even better.

The one who kept high pcs is Medvedeva, despite doing worse. Maybe thanks to these famous politics.

The only one who probably deserved better was Tarakanova. Actually, her free skate score at 2018-2019 nats deserved to be close to Kostornaya's imo. But she wasn't already that gifted when she was with Eteri.

 

[zounger]

What was Zhilina's and Akatieva's PCS in comparison last season? Do we have any figure? Just out of curiosity.

 

[nussnacker]

What was Zhilina's and Akatieva's PCS in comparison last season? Do we have any figure? Just out of curiosity.

Akatieva: SP at RuJnNat - 31, now 30
FS: 66.8, now 61.

Zhilina at RusJrNats (younger age group): SP- 31, now 29.5; FS: 63.7, now 59.6

Overall, Akatieva's PCS score dropped by almost 8 points, Zhilina's by 5.5. All that given Veronika's had a big mistake in SP.
So.... where are the conclusions about her marks falling coming from?

It's not a lie to say Veronika's marks dropped, but it is twisting the truth to fit someone's argument.

 

[Shayuki]

So in the end not really surprising that Zhilina still looks like a skater from Tutberidze school, however scores are already getting lower and there are some politics behind that.

How are Zhilina's scores getting lower, exactly? Last season she scored 183, 191, 166, 168, 167, 173. Now she scores 196, almost 197, her best ever.

PCS comparison to the 191:

Last season: SP 25.06, FS 58.13

This season: SP 29.46, FS 59.61

Well would you look at that, you're... Completely wrong!

Further, it's completely inaccurate to compare event to event, scoring in events tends to vary wildly. Instead you should look at something like her distance from Akatieva, where she now is far closer than she was before. In fact, Veronika routinely got very low PCS last season.


Also, by the way, this would be the Moscow cup in the fall, right? This very competition is NOTORIOUS for having extremely low and strict scoring. Having PCS of ~30, ~60 is very unusual. Let's remember Kostornaya to start the 17-18 season(before her JGP debut) skated clean here and scored 184.05. Her first JGP was 197. The usual SP PCS for JGP contenders in this competition would be around 25.

 

[Skatesocs]

I'm sorry, with all the things we certainly, most definitely, can't possibly predict about the actual skating of an actual athlete, how are we so confident about what did or didn't cause someone's PCS fall?

 

[zounger]

Thanks nussnacker and Shayuki it looks Zhilina benefited more in PCS than Akatieva, by looking the numbers, even though she is younger too. But to tell the truth I don't know how she skated or Akatieva last season. Judging by what I saw the previous days both are over-scored in PCS.

I was watching the Junior World champion streaming the day before and Bradie Tennel, who skated after Zagitova, got around 25 in PCS if i'm not mistaken. She was underscored in PCS. But she was definitely better at her 19 than Zhilina and Akatieva in PCS. So my point is both are very high in PCS for what they are doing.

 

[flanker]

BTW, results from the 2020 novice championships (Veronika):
https://fsrussia.ru/results/1920/mlvoz2020/index.htm

2020 junior championships (Sofia):
https://www.fsrussia.ru/results/1920/junnat1920/ENG/index.htm

Of course the direct comparison is not the best way because the skates have different quality, but the thesis about "dropping score by default when you leave Eteri" comes just from the false narrative about the evil Eteri, not from the reality. And somehow I'm supposed to be nice towards that? That's, well, ridiculous

 

[Amei]

At the moment I see 3 main directions in Russian ladies skating. First is keep Medvedeva close for the next seasons team. Second is keep Trusova's technical advantage as long as possible with a relative PCS push as a pillow. Third, push PCS wise, who ever survives from TT this and next season.

Kostornaya can be back in consideration during this time. Tuktamysheva in case 2-3 will hit by puberty hard next two seasons.

As for test skates, I never understood it's importance especially in the way that they are done lately which is mainly commercial.

Interesting stance on Medvedeva, are you talking about the national team or the Olympic team?