2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[silveruskate]

Okay but it is so barely outside that I wonder whether or not that slight outside will last until the next competition. On a different note, do people count the edge when the toepick hits the ice or when the body starts to rotate?

I normally consider the edge up until the downward pressure on the ice of the toe-pick ends. But I believe judges are fine with looking at the moment the toe-pick touches the ice (the rules don't specify I don't think so it's really ambiguous).

 

[Mathman]

I'd say we are nitpicking frames too much and forgetting what a Lutz is.

Is there counter-rotation in the jump or not? That's the only relevant question.

That is the most relevant question regarding calling the jump a Lutz. But there is still the "unclear edge (!) deduction that could cost points.

 

[Skatesocs]

That is the most relevant question regarding calling the jump a Lutz. But there is still the "unclear edge (!) deduction that could cost points.

If the caller is unsure of the edge, then the unclear edge doesn't apply - benefit of the doubt to the skater. That frame is unclear *to me* - I wouldn't slap a (!) on it.

 

[Amei]

That is the most relevant question regarding calling the jump a Lutz. But there is still the "unclear edge (!) deduction that could cost points.

If you look at protocols from GP China last year, even with calls on the edges her quads and 2 back-loaded triple lutz jumps still scored some of the highest of the bunch. Would that necessarily work for her at Worlds, no, but I think they placed her triple lutz jumps in the back-half to get the extra points where an edge call won't kill her score. Until more skaters are consistently landing quads gambling for the quad lutz will still pay off; hopefully that quad flip is getting better where they could at least at some point if her edges get called switch to repeating the flip and only do 1 quad lutz.

 

[Shayuki]

Well here we go.

Trusova's FS I thought made absolutely no sense. It was a confusing mess with completely nonsensical cuts. I didn't get any sort of a connection to music by her either, she was as dry as ever. Perhaps the first quad fall ate into her mojo a bit but that program was a complete trainwreck. SP was a yes, FS's a no.

Kamila's FS was quite empty, but the parts that were there I enjoyed. Also, it's nice to see a lighter program than one full of transitionary elements for her, though I'm sure they'll be adding some more over the course of the season. Her first fall looked really scary in the air but she recovered well after.

Tuktamysheva... fell on 3A. Well, she skates the way she skates. It gets old pretty quickly.

Anna. I've for a long time wanted her to perform to sad / melancholic music, I think this worked very well. I genuinely enjoyed the music and it's not something I've heard too often in skating. Her performing was solid, though it'll surely be improved further down the line. I definitely think her jumps have gotten worse, but that's not exactly unexpected. Looking forward to seeing this program evolve, definitely my favorite program for her in years!

Medvedeva. Where to begin? This was a total train wreck. To make matters worse, Medvedeva acted like she was doing a clown show in a circus instead of trying to perform her best, what with cartwheels and whatever it was she was doing, I don't even know. I think that's quite disrespectful. It gives me the impression that she doesn't take this event seriously and is just disrespectful to the judges and everyone watching, as this is something they're doing for the skaters, not the other way around. As for the actual performance, three failed jumping passes in short succession. The program itself probably is functional, but I couldn't concentrate on it very much with what she was doing. But I don't really have an issue with her performing poorly - as I mentioned for the SP that's understandable with her training problems during the summer. But I don't like the way she acted.

 

[Tolstoj]

If the caller is unsure of the edge, then the unclear edge doesn't apply - benefit of the doubt to the skater. That frame is unclear *to me* - I wouldn't slap a (!) on it.

That's wrong though!

From the Technical panel Handbooks : "The TP uses the sign “!” if the take-off edge is not clear".

So if the edge is not clear either because it's flat or because the judge is unsure, they have to give the "!".

When they don't call anything, it's assumed the edge is outside.

https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/.../24781-tphb-single-skating-2020-21-final/file

You can have one benefit of the doubt, but let's say if Shcherbakova will eventually restore the old contents for the free, that's four lutzes, and let's be honest here we all know her lutz is rarely an outside edge, mostly flat sometimes even inside edge, so fool me once but 4 times?

To me that's relying on "distracted" judging a bit too much, if i was her coach, i'd rather push the flip more for combos and quads cause at least the edge on that one is better.

 

[Skatesocs]

That's wrong though!

That sentence means "the edge is unclear" which is to say "flat". Not "the technical panel is unclear about the edge" - which is what I'm arguing there. I'm most certainly unclear if the edge is unclear - so I'll judge that as a Lutz.

 

[Tolstoj]

That sentence means "the edge is unclear" which is to say "flat". Not "the technical panel is unclear about the edge" - which is what I'm arguing there. I'm most certainly unclear if the edge is unclear - so I'll judge that as a Lutz.

To me not clear means unclear, not only flat. lol

Besides, they have plenty of cameras to check now, for instance this one which was posted before is a clear flat edge.

https://i.postimg.cc/tCfXnjcg/Anna-Lz-2.jpg

 

[Mathman]

...what with cartwheels and whatever it was she was doing.

What exactly is a "cartwheel" in the context of figure skating? Doe she put her hands on the ice in the execution?

(Really wanting to know. )

 

[Skatesocs]

To me not clear means unclear, not only flat. lol

That's great. What is an "unclear" edge to you then? You would rate an edge you are unsure about if it's slightly outside or flat with the same warning as one that you know for sure is flat?

What exactly is a "cartwheel" in the context of figure skating? Doe she put her hands on the ice in the execution?

(Really wanting to know. )

Med did put her hands on the ice. Funny how some fads come and go, since Kihira posted a cartwheel on IG too.

 

[silveruskate]

To make matters worse, Medvedeva acted like she was doing a clown show in a circus instead of trying to perform her best, what with cartwheels and whatever it was she was doing, I don't even know. I think that's quite disrespectful. It gives me the impression that she doesn't take this event seriously and is just disrespectful to the judges and everyone watching, as this is something they're doing for the skaters, not the other way around. As for the actual performance, three failed jumping passes in short succession. The program itself probably is functional, but I couldn't concentrate on it very much with what she was doing. But I don't really have an issue with her performing poorly - as I mentioned for the SP that's understandable with her training problems during the summer. But I don't like the way she acted.

Disrespectful choreography I've heard it all now. No offense, but I don't think you know what Alegria even is. Best to do your research. :thumbsup:

 

[Tolstoj]

That's great. What is an "unclear" edge to you then? You would rate an edge you are unsure about if it's slightly outside or flat with the same warning as one that you know for sure is flat?

It depends on the situation, there shouldn't be a general rule but to me if you are not sure, it implies that edge is not that clear, so worthy of an attention.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Hmm... Is it true that Alyona already had a FS but wanted to change it? I do not find any article about that.

 

[Ophelia]

Kostornaia is getting her LP choreographed by Shae Lynn-Bourne, which is the best pairing one can hope for.

 

[Skatesocs]

It depends on the situation, there shouldn't be a general rule but to me if you are not sure, it implies that edge is not that clear, so worthy of an attention.

That doesn't answer the question about whether you believe an edge *you* are unsure of is hit with the same warning as one you know for sure is incorrect. Your lack of clarity dinging a skater is unfair - it's why we don't see "<!" calls if the caller is unsure of UR.

 

[Scott512]

Did Sasha do 5 quads like she wanted to do at TT? With Sasha it comes down to her free skate and whether she can go clean. When she does she wins when she doesnt she doesnt. That hasnt changed.

What was the attendance ysterday? It looked like a huge crowd in the megasport arena. I have mixed feelings about that. So many thousands of fans not wearing masks.

 

[kmw227]

What was the attendance ysterday? It looked like a huge crowd in the megasport arena. I have mixed feelings about that. So many thousands of fans not wearing masks.

I've heard the arena was only at about 25% capacity (ideally for distance purposes, most likely), but everyone was sitting together so social distancing wasn't really a thing.

 

[silveruskate]

That doesn't answer the question about whether you believe an edge *you* are unsure of is hit with the same warning as one you know for sure is incorrect. Your lack of clarity dinging a skater is unfair - it's why we don't see "<!" calls if the caller is unsure of UR.

But the point is that ! is for an unclear edge....if you knew it was incorrect then wouldn't it be e? And actually with < for now they just make a decision one way or another even on borderline cases with sometimes it being that rotation we think is complete is sometimes called <. I believe they were in the most recent rules actually wanting to make it the same set up as with !/e by having another option.

 

[jhcorb01]

Medvedeva. Where to begin? This was a total train wreck. To make matters worse, Medvedeva acted like she was doing a clown show in a circus instead of trying to perform her best, what with cartwheels and whatever it was she was doing, I don't even know. I think that's quite disrespectful. It gives me the impression that she doesn't take this event seriously and is just disrespectful to the judges and everyone watching, as this is something they're doing for the skaters, not the other way around. As for the actual performance, three failed jumping passes in short succession. The program itself probably is functional, but I couldn't concentrate on it very much with what she was doing. But I don't really have an issue with her performing poorly - as I mentioned for the SP that's understandable with her training problems during the summer. But I don't like the way she acted.

Instead of hating Zhenya blindly and badmouthing her any chance you get, maybe learn a bit about Alegria and her choreography, which is deliberate and choreographed by Shae-Lynn. I know innovative choreography may come as a shock to you when you're used to Dani G's incompetence, but it's out there. She mentioned in her interview after her glove slipped, on top of being clearly injured, despite downplaying it.

 

[Mathman]

Besides, they have plenty of cameras to check now, for instance this one which was posted before is a clear flat edge.

https://i.postimg.cc/tCfXnjcg/Anna-Lz-2.jpg

That is a perfect example (but I'm not sure what it is an example of. )

To you, the edge is "clearly flat." To me, it is sort of leaning toward the outside. But in any case, there is nothing "clear" about it.