2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[kmw227]

Nobody involved ever actually suggested Sasha moved to Plushenko because of Rozanov, it was speculation. From what Aliona has said it seems she is the one who moved to Plushenko because of Rozanov and he is working mostly with her.

Ah, I must've gotten them mixed up then. My mistake.

Sergei has posted a video of Sasha's 4Lz on his Instagram recently, so I'm guessing she still works with him but he's probably not one of her main coaches. He seems to be the main coach for Alena and Veronika, so he's probably putting most of his time into their training.

 

[Mathman]

Well, Flip pretty much was flat, I'm not sure why it became "inside" TBH.

I think it goes way back to when jumps were first being invented and classified. It seemed natural to ask, It is a toe jump or an edge jump? Is the take-off from an outside edge or an inside edge. From the same foot or the opposite foot?

That provided a very neat way to put each jump in it's own well defined compartment. Toe Walley: toe-pick assisted, back inside edge take-off, land on same foot. Etc. A place for every jump and every jump in its proper place.

Various conventions came along with experience. A typical flip edge is shallower than a Lutz edge, but you can still get an edge call if it is definitely outside and not anywhere near flat.

 

[BabySloth]

Russian Cup question

Is there a page where we can follow the entries? Who will be at the 1st stage besides Evgenia? (sorry if this was asked before but the thread is rather long)

 

[LiamForeman]

Trusova- my favorite this weekend. Her SP was a huge step forward. Her LP has alot of work to do. I'm so pleasantly surprised at her improvements. Plus her jumps look MUCH better. Kind of amazing how a different coaching approach can really improve your skating. I'm glad Trusova left TT, this is a good move for her.

Valieva- Amazing. I couldn't understand the people on this group saying how it's unfair to other Russian juniors or would put undo pressure on Kamila. Huh???? She is right where she belongs. Had she not had the sideways quad I'd say she would have run away with this event. I don't get it. If the US had a senior test skates, do you think it would be unfair to all the US junior girls or put undo pressure on Alysa Liu if she was permitted to skate at Sr. Test Skates? Kamila isn't just the best Russian junior, she's the WORLD's best junior by a mile. Possibly even the best female skater on the planet now. I'm glad she's growing and her skating looks much stronger this season.

Shcherbakova- I love how much more mature she is now. Still, her two programs are so Johnny One Note. I don't remember anything about the music or choreo except just that Anna is lovely and skated lovely. I really don't think her jumps have deteriorated. The extra growth to me has made her jumps stronger. Spins look better.

Tuk- Uggh. I thought we were going to see the new and improved PCS Liza? I know you can't get blood from a turnip, and Liza is basically always going to be Liza with her face- and hand- -ography and two foot skating and a failure to understand math and how to rack up points. I know it was just a test skate, so she wasn't going for points, but she looks exactly the same as last year and the year before. Unfortunately I didn't see her even attempt a quad in practices. I wish Liza would improve her skillset. Her skating 'vocabulary' as it were.

Med- I've read she's injured, and I can see that. She was absolutely horrendous. Not just the jumps, those will return. This is a two time world champion and OSM, and her skating is at a near humiliating level. Her speed and flow is all gone, her jumps are even more muscled and UR, she's not even attempting to interpret the music with any passion or assertiveness (and if you go CdS you are nearly required to grab the performance by the balls). All of her spins were horribly slow, and the worst of the group (even Liza's were better, eek!!!). She's been with Orser for two years and her Axel technique is still a fright. I'm assuming her first fall was on an attempted 3LUTZ?? That blade never saw an outside edge from beginning to end. I almost felt like it was a difficult entry into a 3flip, the inside curve was so deep. Also, do skaters get any kind of bonus anymore for these 'half-tanos'? The bent arm is so ugly. Seriously, Med probably wouldn't even make the US Nationals podium anymore with the way her skating has dropped off. Maybe she needs to come back to Russia and finish out her career with Buyanova or Plushy? She's going nowhere, and she really didn't deserve to be among this elite group this weekend.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

That is the most relevant question regarding calling the jump a Lutz. But there is still the "unclear edge (!) deduction that could cost points.

I think the most important thing is to see how both Lutz and Flip look for every skater individually - if there is a difference between those two in one skaters performance. If they look as the same jump, one of them who is flat will be reviewed and probably called. If the flip has an inside edge, even slightly outside edge of lutz for that skater will be tolerated in real time. If lutz has a deep outside edge, flat flip edge of that skater will be tolerated too. But it must be a visible difference between those two in one skaters performance.

 

[Resa]

That's great. What is an "unclear" edge to you then? You would rate an edge you are unsure about if it's slightly outside or flat with the same warning as one that you know for sure is flat?



Med did put her hands on the ice. Funny how some fads come and go, since Kihira posted a cartwheel on IG too.

Kazakova/Reviya did a Cartwheel last season at GPF. I guess that's where the other skaters saw it

 

[kmw227]

Russian Cup question

Is there a page where we can follow the entries? Who will be at the 1st stage besides Evgenia? (sorry if this was asked before but the thread is rather long)

Anna will be there as well. Sinitsyna was supposed to be there, but she withdrew. Other than that I'm not sure.

 

[Jontor]

I am not sure what this means. A Lutz jump is defined by counter-rotation. You can judge if this jump had that.

Interesting. Yes, the Lutz is defined by counter-rotation. But no one does a counter rotated Lutz anymore.

Check out this old footage of Denise Biellmann who was the first woman to land the 3Lz. (She does a Flip first, then comes the Lutz)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7NGdFc5k2M
You can see she has clear outside edge, that makes a half circle on the ice, and then she jumps - in the complete opposite direction!!
That's a Lutz!!!
(Biellmann is a lefty like Osmond and Kostner, so you have to translate it to what applies for right jumpers).

This is what a Lutz used to look like in the good ole' days. Sometime around the late 90s the technique changed, and skaters began to go down in a straight line on a flat edge, then changed the edge just before jumping so it was "called" outside. But there is no counter rotation anymore! The skaters just simply twist their foot a bit before jumping. This is of course much easier.

It amuses me that so many people are nitpicking the Lutz edges nowadays, when the whole point of the Lutz with counter rotation just isn't there anymore.

 

[Amei]

Kazakova/Reviya did a Cartwheel last season at GPF. I guess that's where the other skaters saw it

Did they put their hands on the ice though? Per the ISU handbook I think a cartwheel, and certainly the floppy thing she did today would constitute a fall.

A fall is defined as: “loss of control by a skater with the result that the majority of his/her own body weight is on the ice supported by any other part of the body other than the blades e.g. hand(s), knee(s), back, buttock(s) or any part of the arm.”

 

[lopsilceci]

Didn't they announce recently she won't skate at senior stages? Why I'm even asking, when FFKKR announces something about the event participation, you can immediately bet on the other variant...

I think that was just a rumour.

 

[moonkat]

Interesting. Yes, the Lutz is defined by counter-rotation. But no one does a counter rotated Lutz anymore.

Check out this old footage of Denise Biellmann who was the first woman to land the 3Lz. (She does a Flip first, then comes the Lutz)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7NGdFc5k2M
You can see she has clear outside edge, that makes a half circle on the ice, and then she jumps - in the complete opposite direction!!
That's a Lutz!!!
(Biellmann is a lefty like Osmond and Kostner, so you have to translate it to what usually applies for right jumpers).

This is what a Lutz used to look like in the good ole' days. Sometime around the late 90s the technique changed, and skaters began to go down in a straight line on a flat edge, then changed the edge just before jumping so it was "called" outside. But there is no counter rotation anymore! The skaters just simply twist their foot a bit before jumping. This is of course much easier.

It amuses me that so many people are nitpicking the Lutz edges nowadays, when the whole point of the Lutz with counter rotation just isn't there anymore.

No one at all? Can you give more examples of the old lutz

 

[lopsilceci]

Russian Cup question

Is there a page where we can follow the entries? Who will be at the 1st stage besides Evgenia? (sorry if this was asked before but the thread is rather long)

Flanker made a table with the entries in the first page of this thread.

 

[Resa]

Did they put their hands on the ice though? Per the ISU handbook I think a cartwheel, and certainly the floppy thing she did today would constitute a fall.

They did a side-by-side one handed Cartwheel in their FD. They won JGPF so I guess they didn't get deducted for it?
Link: https://youtu.be/-IIu7aB-8fY

 

[lopsilceci]

I think if you do it with one hand on the ice, its fine with the rules. You can see how Kazakova/Reviya exactly did it.

I was curious about this because in the video Rika recently posted of her SP (or bits of it), she also does a two-handed cart-wheel. Don't know if she will actually do it like this, because from my understanding of the rules, it would be considered a fall by the judges.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I was curious about this because in the video Rika recently posted of her SP (or bits of it), she also does a two-handed cart-wheel. Don't know if she will actually do it like this, because from my understanding of the rules, it would be considered a fall by the judges.

I think that two hands simultaneously too much of the body weight is on the ice in one moment, and that may be called as a fall, yes :thumbsup:

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

My thoughts - I think Alyona did well at the test skates. I have no idea why she was so upset. Especially that Eteri students were not perfect either. Akatieva was not perfect (at the novice competition), Shcherbakova was not perfect and neither was Valieva. Valieva's Bolero was the weirdest FS I have ever seen.

 

[eliana]

My thoughts - I think Alyona did well at the test skates. I have no idea why she was so upset. Especially that Eteri students were not perfect either. Akatieva was not perfect (at the novice competition), Shcherbakova was not perfect and neither was Valieva. Valieva's Bolero was the weirdest FS I have ever seen.

I agree! If Aliona skates, she was definitely one of the first. I don't think he felt well

 

[kwanatic]

Just finished watching the test skates for the ladies. My quick thoughts:

Trusova: I saw some improvements on the presentation side in the SP but they all disappeared in the FS. They have given her some moves that can showcase better line or grace but she still needs a lot of work on them if she's going to pull them off as well as her expression. Her jumps looked fabulous though. Spins needs some work, especially that Biellman position--pretty slow.

Valieva: Pleasant but not exactly memorable SP, but it will serve her well because her elements are so strong by themselves. The FS is a misfire though. She is not strong enough of a performer to pull off Bolero. Compare it to Kostner's or even Sotnikova's and it falls flat. Kostner brought that sultry energy to it that you can't expect a 14 year old to bring, and Sotnikova brought an energy and expression to it that made it work. Valieva is just so blank-faced when she skates, there's no emotion or energy coming from her. She's lovely to watch but she doesn't bring anything else to the performance. Hopefully that's something they can work with her on. They also need to redo the choreography in the step seq; it was boring. That part is supposed to be full of energy and excitement and it fell flat. Nice skating overall but those programs are kinda weak.

Shcherbakova: Generically pretty programs in both segments, i.e. boring programs. I feel like they could change it up for her a bit. Anna is Eteri's strongest performer at this point. They should try giving her something a little different to make it interesting rather than the same one-note soft and pretty music/programs. She was strong here but, like Valieva, those programs were a bit snooze-worthy.

Tuktamysheva: A lot going on with the costumes here. I haven't made up my mind if I like them or not. I think I might like the SP one but they need to get rid of some of the extra stuff (i.e. the boot cover, glove thingy). I like that she's trying something different in both programs and hopefully if she continues working it will come together. Both programs felt half-baked to me--they both need more attention and work. If she can really get comfortable with them I think they'll work well for her. Jumps looked decent enough. The axel was temperamental but we know she's good for it so it should be okay.

Medvedeva: Was Masquerade Waltz as her SP TAT's doing? If so, I hope she reconsiders and maybe goes back to her SP from last year. Not that big a fan of it. The FS on the other hand...I see where they're going with it. It definitely stood out in that group. Yes, it was a lil bit of a mess but overall it has a unique and different feel that could possibly be really cool if she can pull it together. The combos were both under and that axel is still iffy. The spins were slow, she looked slow...definitely not a great performance but kudos to her for going for it. Hopefully she'll be able to get back to Toronto at some point soon because she has a lot of work to do. Still, of everyone's FS I thought hers had the most potential.

Alena: I did not particularly care for the SP. It definitely stands out from the others but I'm not sure if it's in a good or bad way. She looked a bit rattled even though the performance was okay. I think I missed why she didn't do the FS--did they say why? What is her FS to this season?

 

[lopsilceci]

My opinion of today's FS:

Sasha won the technical side, as she was able to execute most of her jumps cleanly... and that quad combo, wow. As for her R&J, I must say I like how it's looking. It works for me as an alternative interpretation of the romantic version of R&J that ladies usually go for and I think Sasha's powerful style fits the pieces of music chosen here. I liked that Elena was counting the beats for Sasha during the step sequence. I think her presence there will help Sasha with this aspect.

On the other hand, Anna won the artistic/performance side. I really liked this music for her and once again I'm amazed by how she follows the music and really performs to it. The spins also lovely, jumps not bad but need a little work and getting used to them in a competition setting.

Kamila looked very nervous and I think that got in the way of her skating as we all know she can, but still, not a bad skate at all. I don't think the program is in it's final form yet for this season and I have the feeling that it will be tweaked and polished and used as her FP for the Olympic season. Similarly to how they did it with Alina's DQ.

Liza - I must say I liked her FP better than the SP. The music is more interesting and fits her style better. Too bad about the 3A and that she still doesn't seem to have optimized her layout, but oh well.

Zhenya - She's clearly injured or something's really wrong right now but today's skate was a mess. I must say I do like this music for her better than the SP music. If she's injured, she should have just skipped the Test Skates altogether. I don't know what she gained from this but maybe she should also re consider her participation in the early stages of the Russian Cup, as she looks far from ready and one week is not enough time to recover and get in the best shape possible. This season isn't worth aggravating her previous injuries for.

Sofya - I really hope it was just a cold and not the virus. I can't help but worry about hers and other skaters' health and think that having competitions with audiences like this one isn't such a great idea right now.

I'm also not sure what the point was in having Aliona skate yesterday if she was injured or in pain and didn't have a FP to present anyway.

I hope Ksenia's injury isn't bad.

 

[Scott512]

My thoughts - I think Alyona did well at the test skates. I have no idea why she was so upset. Especially that Eteri students were not perfect either. Akatieva was not perfect (at the novice competition), Shcherbakova was not perfect and neither was Valieva. Valieva's Bolero was the weirdest FS I have ever seen.

You expected perfection by Anna and Kamila ata test skate in the middle of a pandemic after not skating for 4 months? Gee your a tough critic. They werent perfect But they were very good in everyones eyes but yours.