2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Scott512]

Why in the world was Aliona skating injured and in need of in jnjections? Lilbet anyone?

Plushenko has a hardware store in his back from surgeries. He should know better than to risk Aliona at a test skate. Injections are serious. I dont like thinking of Aliona in pain and still skating in a meaningless event for someone of her talent. She was great before iand will be again. But not if she has lingering injuries. If it was words or Nats and they did this then maybe okay. But at test skates? Nyet to that. I hope Aliona did not do further damage by skating insured.

So glad AK got the ROCS sponsor. She deserves that and a few more.

 

[Jontor]

No one at all? Can you give more examples of the old lutz

Maria Butyrskaya at Euros '95 (1:15)
Her outside edge goes from the right side of the rink to the left corner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWh5J_A26y0&t=95s

Interestingly, Maria changed her Lutz technique like everybody else later on.
Here is from her world title performance '99 (3:20)
Instead of going with the outside edge from the right side of the rink to the left, she goes down in a straight line on a flat edge, and then changes her edge just before she jumps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyp2xnlzx8w

EDIT: I might be wrong, but I think this new technique from the late 90s is when the Flutz was invented. American girls at the time had very nice flutzes...

 

[Amei]

Why in the world was Aliona skating injured and in need of in jnjections? Lilbet anyone?

Plushenko has a hardware store in his back from surgeries. He should know better than to risk Aliona at a test skate. Injections are serious. I dont like thinking of Aliona in pain and still skating in a meaningless event for someone of her talent. She was great before ill be again. But not if she has lingering injuries. If it was words or Nats and they did this then maybe okay. But at test skates? Nyet to that. I hope Aliona did not do further damage by skating insured.

So glad AK got the ROCS sponsor. She deserves that and a few more.

Huh? Where's the information coming that she was injured? I thought it was said she didn't do the FS because it's not finished yet.

 

[nussnacker]

I am also wondering whether the Russian king of beauty Sergey Rozanov is coaching Sasha. Hmm...

Gurl

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

You expected perfection by Anna and Kamila ata test skate in the middle of a pandemic after not skating for 4 months? Gee your a tough critic. They werent perfect But they were very good in everyones eyes but yours.

I expected clean performances from them. Mainly because of these coaching wars between Eteri and Plushenko.
I do not get why Alyona was so upset though. Last year she had a step out and this year a shaky landing. Maybe she wanted to prove that the Russian king of beauty Sergey Rozanov is a great coach just like Veronika did with her amazing FS and 4T.

 

[flanker]

I do not envy the task of the judges and tech callers. Is it this frame that they must evaluate in real time, or the frame a fifth of a second earlier of later. Is this edge an outsid-sy flat or a flat-sy outside?

Can we actually see the edges on the ice? Personally, I think the curve of the ankle supports a no call. Not textbook, but better than a lot of edges that get by.

It sometimes looks better in motion than static, with all preparation and moves of the ankle.

In this case, the ankle is bent.

 

[fabienne1996]

I expected clean performances from them. Mainly because of these coaching wars between Eteri and Plushenko.
I do not get why Alyona was so upset though. Last year she had a step out and this year a shaky landing. Maybe she wanted to prove that the Russian king of beauty Sergey Rozanov is a great coach just like Veronika did with her amazing FS and 4T.

You expect clean performances? Why? Yes etero girls and sasha were the ones who had the most time for real training with trainers. But it is still hard when you uave months of not ttaining or at one point not beeing on ice, and its literally test skates, its not a competition, test skate is not there to be a media circus its there for the skaters , they are allowed to make mistakes there

Gesendet von meinem SM-T813 mit Tapatalk

 

[Mathman]

EDIT: I might be wrong, but I think this new technique from the late 90s is when the Flutz was invented. American girls at the time had very nice flutzes...

Somewhere about that time Michelle Kwan switched from the long outside edge to the short edge approach. As I remember, her actual edge was better with the long approach. She never lost any points (as far as one can tell in 6.0 scorting), but Tara Lipinski was roundly criticized in the season leading up to the 1998 Olympics.

 

[Scott512]

I expected clean performances from them. Mainly because of these coaching wars between Eteri and Plushenko.
I do not get why Alyona was so upset though. Last year she had a step out and this year a shaky landing. Maybe she wanted to prove that the Russian king of beauty Sergey Rozanov is a great coach just like Veronika did with her amazing FS and 4T.

Aliona will be fine if shes healthy. She has big changes going on lets give her time. Sure EG is about about losing Sasha Verokika and Alion to Plushenko but this is ports and business. Their is no coaching war. Its the media. Lets just let things unfold as time goes by.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

I wish someone of the top Russian ladies could skate to this song: https://youtu.be/gzlHucbD76U

 

[lesnar001]

Somewhere about that time Michelle Kwan switched from the long outside edge to the short edge approach. As I remember, her actual edge was better with the long approach. She never lost any points (as far as one can tell in 6.0 scorting), but Tara Lipinski was roundly criticized in the season leading up to the 1998 Olympics.

I actually remember that (the short approach) - they even commented about it on a skating broadcast.
And with Tara, that is the first time I ever heard the term "Flutz".

IIRC, wasn't it Nicole Bobek who really had a Flutz?

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

This one is also good:
https://youtu.be/tTcnIYYeZI8
Usually their music choices are pretty boring.

 

[dunffvanstorn]

Interesting. Yes, the Lutz is defined by counter-rotation. But no one does a counter rotated Lutz anymore.

Check out this old footage of Denise Biellmann who was the first woman to land the 3Lz. (She does a Flip first, then comes the Lutz)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7NGdFc5k2M
You can see she has clear outside edge, that makes a half circle on the ice, and then she jumps - in the complete opposite direction!!
That's a Lutz!!!
(Biellmann is a lefty like Osmond and Kostner, so you have to translate it to what usually applies for right jumpers).

This is what a Lutz used to look like in the good ole' days. Sometime around the late 90s the technique changed, and skaters began to go down in a straight line on a flat edge, then changed the edge just before jumping so it was "called" outside. But there is no counter rotation anymore! The skaters just simply twist their foot a bit before jumping. This is of course much easier.

It amuses me that so many people are nitpicking the Lutz edges nowadays, when the whole point of the Lutz with counter rotation just isn't there anymore.

I totally agree with you. That’s why I don’t like Valieva’s lutz - for me, it’s one of the best examples of twisting the foot outside at the last minute without getting anything of the counter-rotation.

 

[dunffvanstorn]

I was curious about this because in the video Rika recently posted of her SP (or bits of it), she also does a two-handed cart-wheel. Don't know if she will actually do it like this, because from my understanding of the rules, it would be considered a fall by the judges.

It’s clear that when the movement is purposeful, there will be no deductions. However, if the movements comes after a fall or after a bad landing, there will be deduction.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Somewhere about that time Michelle Kwan switched from the long outside edge to the short edge approach. As I remember, her actual edge was better with the long approach

The long approach is good because you have a time to concentrate on the jump as it is and do it the best you can 'technically'. However, the 'performance' aspect of the jump and the whole programme are suffering because of it.

 

[dunffvanstorn]

Somewhere about that time Michelle Kwan switched from the long outside edge to the short edge approach. As I remember, her actual edge was better with the long approach. She never lost any points (as far as one can tell in 6.0 scorting), but Tara Lipinski was roundly criticized in the season leading up to the 1998 Olympics.

Tara Lipinski had a very visible flutz, but Michelle was a flutzer also. I’m a big fan of Michelle’s, but everyone seems to forget her flutz.

 

[Jontor]

Tara Lipinski had a very visible flutz, but Michelle was a flutzer also. I’m a big fan of Michelle’s, but everyone seems to forget her flutz.

Yes, as I recall, all American girls had flutzes at that time. The first one I remember was Nicole Bobek. Her Lutz was like mega-Flutz.

 

[Jontor]

The long approach is good because you have a time to concentrate on the jump as it is and do it the best you can 'technically'. However, the 'performance' aspect of the jump and the whole programme are suffering because of it.

True. It used to look very awkward doing a Lutz back in those days. Not very choreography friendly.

It seems though that the ISU have accepted the "new" Lutz, which is understandable as it was already the standard when the IJS system came. I wonder though, if the ISU would make a rule that the outside edge of the Lutz should be at least 2-3 seconds (or something), then we wouldn't have this eternal edge calls discussions.

 

[Mawwerg]

Seems I have returned right to another edges discussion.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Aliona will be fine if shes healthy. She has big changes going on lets give her time. Sure EG is about about losing Sasha Verokika and Alion to Plushenko but this is ports and business. Their is no coaching war. Its the media. Lets just let things unfold as time goes by.

Valieva's Bolero is scary and weird.