2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[TripleAxelQueens3]

You clearly haven't seen many of Shae-Lynn's programs or know which she all choreographed. She choreographed many of Yuzuru's classic programs. She choreographed his Hope and Legacy program, Seimei, Phantom of the Opera. She choreographed Mariah's Hallelujah program and Experience program. Shae-Lynn does not only do flashy programs.

Lyrical and classical are different. Lyrical is more contemporary, usually less dramatic, with the music less climaxing and having less changes or a story atmosphere. The ones you listed are more classical (except maybe Mariah's Experience).

 

[Skatesocs]

You clearly haven't seen many of Shae-Lynn's programs or know which she all choreographed

I mean... Maybe they just don't like it.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Aliona Layouts:

SP:

Aliona new: 3A 3Lz 3F-3T
Aliona old: 2A 3Lz 3F-3T

FS:

Aliona new: 3A-2T 3A 2A 3Lo 3F-3T 3F-eu-3S 3Lz
Aliona old: 3Lz-2T 2A 2A 3Lo 3F-3T 3F-eu-3S 3Lz

Aliona replaces 2A, 2A, 3Lz for 3 3As. 11.5-->24.

Anna Layouts:

FS:

Anna new: 4Lz-3T 4Lz 4F 2A 3Lz-3Lo 3F-eu-3S 3Lz
Anna old (Alina layout): 2A-3T 3S 3F 2A 3Lz-3Lo 3F-2T-2Lo 3Lz

More confusing, but Anna replaces 2A, 2T-2Lo, 3F for 4Lz, 4Lz, 4F and -eu-. 11.6-->34.5

I hope my maths is correct, but even if Aliona switched out her 2A for 4S, Anna would still have a roughly 4 point lead in BV.

Your maths is weirdly correct but at the same time it's not. It gives you some numbers, but not base value lead.

Alena sp: 3A, 3Lz, 3F+3Tx(total BV 8 + 5.9 + 10.45 = 24.35 for SP jumps).
Anna sp: 2A, 3F, 3Lz+3Lox ( total BV: 3.3, 5.3, 11.88 =20.48 for SP jumps).

It's reasonable Alena will get +'s on all jumps and Anna will too under normal circumstances, giving Alena extra advantage there based on higher scale factor for the triple axel.

FP:
Alena( 3A+3T, 3A, 2A, 3Lo, 3F+3Tx, 3F+EU+3Sx, 3Lzx = 12.2, 8, 3.3, 4.9, 10.45, 11.1, 6.49 =56.44 total Jump BV)

Anna: 4F+3T, 4Lz, 4F, 2A, 3Lz+3Lox, 3F+EU+3Sx,3Lzx = 15.2+11.5+11+3.3+11.88+11.1+6.49= 70.47)

Anna has a whopping advantage of 14.03 in the FP, and only a loss of 3.87 in FP (partly due to Kostornias loss of +3Lo combo).
In SP and FP kostornaia tends to be 2PCS points ahead (in SP) and 4PCS points in FP so that's -6pts to Anna. (On average)
14.03 -6 -3.87 = 4.16 ahead of Kostornaia if they both skated clean (Anna having two different types of quad and Kostornia just having 3A).

Base value wise Anna is looking at 10.16 ahead of Kostornaia given equal spins steps and choreo sequence , however that depends on both skaters going perfectly clean. GOE makes this a lot more complicated, and this advantage is basically gone if Anna falls and UR one quad).

It's going to be close, and at the risk of sounding cliche:
"Their battle will be legendary."


Of course Trusova can go clean and beat them both. You never know

 

[Skatesocs]

"Their battle will be legen-WAIT FOR IT-dary."

FTFY

 

[readernick]

Your maths is weirdly correct but at the same time it's not. It gives you some numbers, but not base value lead.

Alena sp: 3A, 3Lz, 3F+3Tx(total BV 8 + 5.9 + 10.45 = 24.35 for SP jumps).
Anna sp: 2A, 3F, 3Lz+3Lox ( total BV: 3.3, 5.3, 11.88 =20.48 for SP jumps).

It's reasonable Alena will get +'s on all jumps and Anna will too under normal circumstances, giving Alena extra advantage there based on higher scale factor for the triple axel.

FP:
Alena( 3A+3T, 3A, 2A, 3Lo, 3F+3Tx, 3F+EU+3Sx, 3Lzx = 12.2, 8, 3.3, 4.9, 10.45, 11.1, 6.49 =56.44 total Jump BV)

Anna: 4F+3T, 4Lz, 4F, 2A, 3Lz+3Lox, 3F+EU+3Sx,3Lzx = 15.2+11.5+11+3.3+11.88+11.1+6.49= 70.47)

Anna has a whopping advantage of 14.03 in the FP, and only a loss of 3.87 in FP (partly due to Kostornias loss of +3Lo combo).
In SP and FP kostornaia tends to be 2PCS points ahead (in SP) and 4PCS points in FP so that's -6pts to Anna. (On average)
14.03 -6 -3.87 = 4.16 ahead of Kostornaia if they both skated clean (Anna having two different types of quad and Kostornia just having 3A).

Base value wise Anna is looking at 10.16 ahead of Kostornaia given equal spins steps and choreo sequence , however that depends on both skaters going perfectly clean. GOE makes this a lot more complicated, and this advantage is basically gone if Anna falls and UR one quad).

It's going to be close, and at the risk of sounding cliche:
"Their battle will be legendary."


Of course Trusova can go clean and beat them both. You never know

I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying about the 3A advantage but your jump math is wrong. Alena can't do 2 3Ts, 2 3As and 2 3Fs. You can only repeat 2 triple jumps. Alena does 3A2T.

 

[lopsilceci]

I was super skeptical of Plushenko and his school when it all began, but it seems like he's building something great there. I thought it was just going to be an ego trip for him, and no real results will be produced, but I am super happy to be proven wrong.

No real results have been produced yet...
Not until one of his skaters gets a medal in international competition. Lucky for him that he has this whole season to prepare for the real thing.

 

[flanker]

The main advantage of 3A above 3 quads is that you can split them into the two programs, one in SP and two in FS, while ladies have to put all three quads into a FS, which makes it more prone to errors. Nevertheless, Anna won all free programs of the last season, her disadvantage (or disadvantage of the ladies with quads over ladies with 3A) is she can't put a quad into the SP.

 

[flanker]

I was super skeptical of Plushenko and his school when it all began, but it seems like he's building something great there. I thought it was just going to be an ego trip for him, and no real results will be produced, but I am super happy to be proven wrong.

I'm glad that the real results of Katya Ryabova changed your mind

 

[yume]

Aliona is seen training her LP in the background of this interview with Plushenko. music is from Nocturnal Animals.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CFcL0MjJshQ/

Excellent choice.
It is a music similar to the leftovers and Kostornaya did well on the leftovers.

 

[silveruskate]

Your maths is weirdly correct but at the same time it's not. It gives you some numbers, but not base value lead.

Alena sp: 3A, 3Lz, 3F+3Tx(total BV 8 + 5.9 + 10.45 = 24.35 for SP jumps).
Anna sp: 2A, 3F, 3Lz+3Lox ( total BV: 3.3, 5.3, 11.88 =20.48 for SP jumps).

It's reasonable Alena will get +'s on all jumps and Anna will too under normal circumstances, giving Alena extra advantage there based on higher scale factor for the triple axel.

FP:
Alena( 3A+3T, 3A, 2A, 3Lo, 3F+3Tx, 3F+EU+3Sx, 3Lzx = 12.2, 8, 3.3, 4.9, 10.45, 11.1, 6.49 =56.44 total Jump BV)

Anna: 4F+3T, 4Lz, 4F, 2A, 3Lz+3Lox, 3F+EU+3Sx,3Lzx = 15.2+11.5+11+3.3+11.88+11.1+6.49= 70.47)

Anna has a whopping advantage of 14.03 in the FP, and only a loss of 3.87 in FP (partly due to Kostornias loss of +3Lo combo).
In SP and FP kostornaia tends to be 2PCS points ahead (in SP) and 4PCS points in FP so that's -6pts to Anna. (On average)
14.03 -6 -3.87 = 4.16 ahead of Kostornaia if they both skated clean (Anna having two different types of quad and Kostornia just having 3A).

Base value wise Anna is looking at 10.16 ahead of Kostornaia given equal spins steps and choreo sequence , however that depends on both skaters going perfectly clean. GOE makes this a lot more complicated, and this advantage is basically gone if Anna falls and UR one quad).

It's going to be close, and at the risk of sounding cliche:
"Their battle will be legendary."


Of course Trusova can go clean and beat them both. You never know

PCS/GOE changes everything definitely. I estimated the difference in BV for each skater due to the addition of Quad/3A elements compared to their normal programs. Not the exact BV lead, but what effect adding these difficult elements has on their BV for each skater.

I didn't bother to do the final comparison calculation but it is 24-11.5=12.5 and 34.5-11.6=22.9...22.9-12.5=10.4. Not to toot my own horn too much, but you proved my maths is correct as we both came to a similar estimate.

Mine was working on 2 4Lzs and 1 4F by the way. Although you're right that 2 4Fs is more likely. If Aliona switches out her last 2A for a 4S she reduces the BV lead to 4, and I think Aliona could make that up using PCS and GOE. But this is where PCS becomes very important IMO....like what happened with Alina/Evgenia, I don't know if Aliona will be able to get a 6 point difference out of PCS when it matters. Sasha also changes everything!

 

[Skatesocs]

I also remember Kim being praised for a clean edge take off on the 2A in a 2006 GP, but I can't find the video currently.

As implicitly promised

2006 GPF Yuna Kim FS The Lark Ascending (ESPN)

2006 ISU figure skating Grand Prix Final ladies single Kim Yu-Na free skating The Lark Ascending 2010 Vancouver Olympic champion 김연아 金妍兒 ЮНА КИМ キムヨナ 종달새의 비상

youtu.be

Very hard to jump it like that though, which is why her technique was changed after that season... And why no one really tries a clean edge take off on edge jumps.

 

[bubblecherry]

Akatieva is really impressive. A lot of her jumps are borderline but she's 13. I expect her to improve. She flies around the ice, so much ease and smoothness. Her lines are great. She doesn't perform or understand/interrupt her music, but she has an amazing foundation there and I think those things will come with age. She's the exact opposite of my favorite 13 y/o US skater, who is relatively weak in tech content, is quite slow, but has great performance ability. Interesting to see how young talent develops so differently.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

As implicitly promised

2006 GPF Yuna Kim FS The Lark Ascending (ESPN)

2006 ISU figure skating Grand Prix Final ladies single Kim Yu-Na free skating The Lark Ascending 2010 Vancouver Olympic champion 김연아 金妍兒 ЮНА КИМ キムヨナ 종달새의 비상

youtu.be

Very hard to jump it like that though, which is why her technique was changed after that season... And why no one really tries a clean edge take off on edge jumps.

But even the clean edge takeoff inevitably prerotated a fair margin (I'd say 1/4?). It wasnt a skid, but she still did edge prerotation by maybe 1/8, and then prerotated off her toe pick.
Again, this is perfectly normal and correct just facinating to note.

 

[Azikin]

Akatieva is really impressive. A lot of her jumps are borderline but she's 12. I expect her to improve. She flies around the ice, so much ease and smoothness. Her lines are great. She doesn't perform or understand/interrupt her music, but she has an amazing foundation there and I think those things will come with age. She's the exact opposite of my favorite 12 y/o US skater, who is relatively weak in tech content, is quite slow, but has great performance ability. Interesting to see how young talent develops so differently.

She's 13.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying about the 3A advantage but your jump math is wrong. Alena can't do 2 3Ts, 2 3As and 2 3Fs. You can only repeat 2 triple jumps. Alena does 3A2T.

Sorry was just copying the other person's layout without thinking it through. Give another 2.9points advantage to a clean Anna.

Edit: other poster was correct. Sorry my dyslexia/dyspraxia gets worse when I'm tired.

 

[Skatesocs]

But even the clean edge takeoff inevitably prerotated a fair margin (I'd say 1/4?). It wasnt a skid, but she still did edge prerotation by maybe 1/8, and then prerotated off her toe pick.
Again, this is perfectly normal and correct just facinating to note.

I actually found little on the forum about it. Someone mentioned this is also a clean edge take off on the forum: https://youtu.be/ft0kyWtYmkg?t=98

I'll DM you the thread so you can judge for yourself if you like? I do think these jumps are less pre-rotated than other axels (which is still fine up to 1/2 of course - although ideal axels have much less) and get less leverage off the toe pick than other axels (which is again fine). But could be wrong of course.

 

[[email protected]]

She's a new skating vlogger who also tweets analysis and translations. More like a gossip/tea channel.

I think she doesn't know much about skating, but stuff like hers is what's popular among the fans now.

OK, I see. It's just my opinion but I would appreciate us not bringing en masse the garbage from some new vloggers who do not know much about figure skating.

 

[Happy Skates]

Yay for finally a good music choice for Alyona! The last time I was excited about her music was when she announced she was going to do No one Ever Called Me That, and of course now we've been teased with that music twice . But I have high hopes for this program, I don't even mind the short program if this program is as good as I hope it will be.

Also, Akatieva continues to be amazing. Her triple axel is stunning, and her skating skills are gorgeous. She also carries her arms beautifully. That step sequence is just . I just hope her free program next year for her international debut is as good as these last two (I love both her Amelie and Mulan programs). Probably some of the best pre-junior programs to exist, from an all-around standpoint. She reminds me of Kostornaya a little bit, with those skating skills and graceful arms.

 

[sclloyd]

TSL and Fran, as somebody mentioned earlier they are the equivalent of watching The Real Housewives of Las Vegas or something. They feed on gossip and drama.

That was me XD I criticize them often because as fun as it is to get sucked into drama, that tends to cause ballooning rumors which really only hurt the girls.

 

[Skatesocs]

OK, I see. It's just my opinion but I would appreciate us not bringing en masse the garbage from some new vloggers who do not know much about figure skating.

I'd agree, but ah well... People discuss what they want