2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 417 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Status
Not open for further replies.
The year is 2075, I‘m sitting in a rocking chair in front of my battered computer, adjusting my glasses to squint at the new posts in the 2075-76 RLT.

The discussion is in full swing. Lo and behold, two sensational, never before discussed topics!

1. Medvedeva‘s eternal flutz

and

2. Who did Eteri Tutberidze REALLY favor at the 2018 OG?

:bed::slink:
 
readernick said:
Question: When is Elizaveta Osokina going to perform again? And, has there been any news about my favorite just turned senior girl Ksenia? I really miss her skating. She is a "just right" skater for me. I miss seeing her.
Click to expand...
I worry about those two too. We haven‘t heard anything from Kseniia, have we? And Osokina was great at test skates but hasn‘t been seen since. I hope she‘s not injured. Same for Adelia Petrosyan - she withdrew from the second stage. No news on either of those girls?:(
 
Good that Liza Berestovskaya landed a quad toe today, but shame on the double toe fall. Very charming skater overall, but she does need to work on SS, especially in the speed category.
 
TripleAxelQueens3 said:
I'm sure it is, but I like to stay open minded so it really would be helpful if you could outline some of the positive aspects in choreography. The spiral is really nice, but that's all I really have in the choreography aspect.
Click to expand...
I can't imagine I would ask such question a vice versa, as if I was in the position of an authority to whom those with the opposite opinion should answer for their opinions and tastes. Esp. when the opinions differ as they do here and when particular people are always supercritical to things coming from a particular team.
 
Last edited:
nussnacker said:
"Medvedeva was not called with an E for her lutz even last season and got generous GOEs for it (+3s)"

Now read this again slowly... Thanks for providing further proof of my statement btw. 4 ! calls, considering she was doing a maximum amount of lutzes possible in 2 programs initially, and it was a well known and admitted problem publicly even by herself and her team. yeah...
Click to expand...
The GOE for the Lutz who got a ! call you are speaking of was the following: 31312221 and if you look into ISU's rules, judges are supposed to subtract -1-3 from the GOE after an unclear ! edge call, if a judge gave +4 initially according to the criteria they are supposed to judge by (meaning height, landing, fits the music etc.), it will likely turn into a 3, 2 or 1 depending on how much the judge wants to subtract, he has a range of 3 points The tech panel did not give a full e call but a ! call, therefore it is not surprising the judges did not give the -3-4 lower GOE for a full edge call. I think going from 40% calls to 70% to 100% calls is pretty significant. And one Lutz that got two 3s on a ! call when most of the other called Lutzes during the season got negative GOE is pretty much nothing, especially when said Lutz was performed at a Challenger where judging is usually weird (weren't you guys just last season complaining about the bad judging at Challengers when it came to Anna and Sasha?)

Daria does 3 Lutzes in her programs (an upgrade from last season where she did 2 per competitions) despite a full inside edge Flutz yet she has not gotten any full e calls (she got !s at Junior Worlds, but that's it). Maiia mostly has a flat edge and sometimes switches to an inside edge on her Lutz and has 3 Lutzes in her programs, yet she does not receive edge calls. So where is the correlation that the more Flutzes = the more calls. Anna has mostly a flat edge (sometimes shallow inside) on her Lutz and does 5 Lutzes per competition (last season), yet does not get any calls (except that CoC moment last season where a judge dared to do that and we all know what happened afterwards, RusFed complained and suddenly all calls disappeared). Where are the constant edge calls on hers?
Polina did not receive any edge calls in the season before leaving Eteri and then she received 4 ! calls the next season, what is your supposed explanation for that?
Daria Panenkova also went from 2 ! calls ouf 9 jumps (22%) to to 5 ! calls out of 7 jumps (71.5%) in one season.
 
Despite Sofia's spin flub, I think I would've had her in first today. I love Liza, but the first half of her program was a bit of a hot mess and I just don't think that 4T is a sustainable jump for her at all. I honestly like Sofia more and more every time I watch her, she's becoming one of my favorite juniors!

On Liza's speed: when I watched her short yesterday, I actually thought she looked a little faster and her jumps had a little more flow out of them than they usually do. But I do agree that it's something she and her team need to be working on.
 
flanker said:
I can't imagine I would ask such question a vice versa, as if I was in the position of an authority to whom those with the opposite opinion should answer for their opinions and tastes. Esp. when the opinions differ as they do here and when particular people are always supercritical to things comeng from a particular team.
Click to expand...
Lol what even? That person was literally just asking for impressions by people who liked the program. That‘s a completely innocent request and could potentially create an interesting discussion! People have different tastes when it comes to art, it’s kind of fascinating to see the perspective of others at times. And yet you somehow manage to bring the “everyone hates Eteri“ argument into it?

As for Kamila‘s program, though I admit to not being a fan - I like the opening moves, they‘re very unusual and eye-catching in their difficulty. I also find the idea of her portraying a snake quite intriguing - she has the flexibility and almost contortionist like moves. I‘m just not sure why they‘d choose Bolero as a music as it doesn‘t have anything snake-like at all, imo. I also think they could have chosen a more subtle costume that still gets the idea across but isn‘t as over the top.
 
TripleAxelQueens3 said:
100% of lutzes were called. That has nothing to do with amount of lutzes performed, that is the ratio of lutzes called to lutzes performed. The problem is that the overall percentage of lutzes called over lutzes jumped should stay the same in all circumstances except for the rare one in which the skater in question actually fixes their edge, or gets worse. None of those things happened, so the growth from 40% to 70% then to 100% makes zero sense. Just because she did less lutzes doesn't somehow mean that she didn't flutz. And the judges really shouldn't need for Zhenya herself to say that she flutzes in order to call them. There may be other factors leading to the increase, but the increase exists. The reasons behind it may never be known, but to try to argue against statistics... not the most intelligent choice.

And your quote about Zhenya and +3, well first of all, she got called an "e" as the stats show you. And yes, she may have gotten +3, but that was at Worlds, and only Worlds (and we know how the judges really weren't into giving calls at Worlds that year). Like you said, Alina got an "e" call at IDF, but that was only at IDF too wasn't it? One competition can't define the stats from an entire season. Besides the lutz at Worlds, all other lutzes got significantly lower GOE (all around +1.5 GOE or less).
Click to expand...
no, it was ACI for the record. The Worlds awarded her with the highest GOEs for a Lutz in the whole damn event. Seriously, don't at me with "no one was called": if she was magically unfavoured because of Eteri, how does she simultaneously earn THE highest GOEs on the worst lutz of the event?
 
Last edited:
kmw227 said:
Despite Sofia's spin flub, I think I would've had her in first today. I love Liza, but the first half of her program was a bit of a hot mess and I just don't think that 4T is a sustainable jump for her at all. I honestly like Sofia more and more every time I watch her, she's becoming one of my favorite juniors!

On Liza's speed: when I watched her short yesterday, I actually thought she looked a little faster and her jumps had a little more flow out of them than they usually do. But I do agree that it's something she and her team need to be working on.
Click to expand...
I also think that Muravyeva deserved to be first. Berestovskayas program kind of fell apart with the mistakes. Still, although they had errors, both girls were a joy to watch.
 
kmw227 said:
Despite Sofia's spin flub, I think I would've had her in first today. I love Liza, but the first half of her program was a bit of a hot mess and I just don't think that 4T is a sustainable jump for her at all. I honestly like Sofia more and more every time I watch her, she's becoming one of my favorite juniors!

On Liza's speed: when I watched her short yesterday, I actually thought she looked a little faster and her jumps had a little more flow out of them than they usually do. But I do agree that it's something she and her team need to be working on.
Click to expand...
Sofia’s spin problem was so weird. I thought for a second that she was just gonna give up on finishing the program, then for another second I thought it was a practice video. If not for that mistake, I think she would have been 1st, because Berestovskaya’s falls were too “distracting“ (I forgot the right word in English). Overall, Sofia did a pretty good job, her jump technique is good, she just has some shaky landings that already look much better than at Test Skates.
 
Backoutside said:
Much blathering lately about TSchK looking over their shoulders at Kamila:

How do you think Maiia, Daria and Kamila are looking at Jr. Nat'l's this year?

I'm not sure they can cover this fresh field of Juniors, and I have a bookie's hunch that by that late date this season, not even Kamila will be able to handle the trixel-triple quadru-diple monster that is Sonyakat.

She is, after all, showing at tournaments under the tender and devoted attention of Sergei Quadrovitch, his kind and lovable self. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Daria seems the most consistent for now.

The others all made more mistakes so far, part of the reason are certainly the big elements, 3a and quads.

The only ones that can challenge them are Samodelkina and Zhilina at Jr Nationals, the others probably cannot even with 2 clean skates, cause they can't get the components.
 
Lunalovesskating said:
The GOE for the Lutz who got a ! call you are speaking of was the following: 31312221 and if you look into ISU's rules, judges are supposed to subtract -1-3 from the GOE after an unclear ! edge call, if a judge gave +4 initially according to the criteria they are supposed to judge by (meaning height, landing, fits the music etc.), it will likely turn into a 3, 2 or 1 depending on how much the judge wants to subtract, he has a range of 3 points The tech panel did not give a full e call but a ! call, therefore it is not surprising the judges did not give the -3-4 lower GOE for a full edge call. I think going from 40% calls to 70% to 100% calls is pretty significant. And one Lutz that got two 3s on a ! call when most of the other called Lutzes during the season got negative GOE is pretty much nothing, especially when said Lutz was performed at a Challenger where judging is usually weird (weren't you guys just last season complaining about the bad judging at Challengers when it came to Anna and Sasha?)

Daria does 3 Lutzes in her programs (an upgrade from last season where she did 2 per competitions) despite a full inside edge Flutz yet she has not gotten any full e calls (she got !s at Junior Worlds, but that's it). Maiia mostly has a flat edge and sometimes switches to an inside edge on her Lutz and has 3 Lutzes in her programs, yet she does not receive edge calls. So where is the correlation that the more Flutzes = the more calls. Anna has mostly a flat edge (sometimes shallow inside) on her Lutz and does 5 Lutzes per competition (last season), yet does not get any calls (except that CoC moment last season where a judge dared to do that and we all know what happened afterwards, RusFed complained and suddenly all calls disappeared). Where are the constant edge calls on hers?
Polina did not receive any edge calls in the season before leaving Eteri and then she received 4 ! calls the next season, what is your supposed explanation for that?
Daria Panenkova also went from 2 ! calls ouf 9 jumps (22%) to to 5 ! calls out of 7 jumps (71.5%) in one season.
Click to expand...
so? at that point it was plain as day that awarding a ! for literally the most well known flutz is kind of strange. I already explained the reasons for the whole % things (which are quite silly on their own, since we're operating in single digit numbers). A 100%-200% increase in your mistake, which was getting more and more well known each year, might start getting noticed, how come?

Talking about Daria and Maiia, if we go to a junior circuit, I can name at least a number of skaters from small federation who weren't called anything on their flat edges even once last season, or got 1 call maybe for their fluzes. On a junior circuit there's generally more leniency; isn't there? Daria P. was a junior too btw.
Should I mention seniors? Eunsoo Lim very rarely gets called, certainly never even got an E, but has a flutz, it actually started getting more calls after she left Raf, while Mariah was awarded with some leniency last season, but somehow no one's running around with conspiracies about that. Want another one? Nugumanova didn't have a sinlge edge call under Mishin, after she left him it started happening rather often.
maybe if people start looking at a bigger picture, without focusing so extensively on only 1 group of other skaters with such detail and attention, they'll start noticing other funny trends too?
This whole thing is a confirmation bias at it's finest. People look for any proofs to prove their predetermined beliefs, while ignoring anything that doesn't suit them.
 
Last edited:
It seems to me that the situation is very clear. If you have a well-known coach, then you are forgiven for your shortcomings in technique. The more famous a coach is, the more the shortcomings of his students are forgiven. This also includes the size of GOE and PCS. Who is the most famous coach in the women's singles FS? Eteri Tutberidze. Accordingly, it is most pronounced in her. The athlete leaves the famous coach - he loses the bonus of this coach. Nothing complicated. Why didn't anyone say this directly here? Are you shy?) This is not an attack on Eteri, it is just a summary of the discourse on the last pages here.
 
nussnacker said:
no, it was ACI for the record. The Worlds awarded her with the highest GOEs for a Lutz in the whole damn event. Seriously, don't at me with "no one was called": if she was magically unfavoured because of Eteri, how does she simultaneously earn THE highest GOEs on the worst lutz of the event?
Click to expand...
That's literally one competition, out of like what, 11? As I have said, there are outliers here, and that does mean that for sure, the reason for Zhenya's high scores aren't just due to coaching, but you can't deny the simple trend of 40% called to 70% called to 100% called despite there being no change in her lutz itself. She may have been given the highest GOE for a lutz there, but she was also given an "e" and negative GOE at Skate Canada that same season. Really, if you look at her protocols, Worlds and ACI were the two really high ones, but everything else was marked with ! or given at the very most +2s on GOE (which, if you think about it could make sense because wrong edge is only -1 to -3, and if the jump itself warrants a +4 or +5, then getting a +2 at the end makes sense).
 
nussnacker said:
so? at that point it was plain as day that awarding a ! for literally the most well known flutz is kind of strange. I already explained the reasons for the whole % things (which are quite silly on their own, since we're operating in single digit numbers). A 100%-200% increase in your mistake, which was getting more and more well known each year, might start getting noticed, how come?

Talking about Daria and Maiia, if we go to a junior circuit, I can name at least a number of skaters from small federation who weren't called anything on their flat edges even once last season, or got 1 call maybe for their fluzes. On a junior circuit there's generally more leniency; isn't there? Daria P. was a junior too btw.
Should I mention seniors? Eunsoo Lim very rarely gets called, certainly never even got an E, but has a flutz, it actually started getting more calls after she left Raf, while Mariah was awarded with some leniency last season, but somehow no one's running around with conspiracies about that. Want another one? Nugumanova didn't have a sinlge edge call under Mishin, after she left him it started happening rather often.
maybe if people start looking at a bigger picture, without focusing so extensively on only 1 group of other skaters with such detail and attention, they'll start noticing other funny trends too?
This whole thing is a confirmation bias at it's finest. People look for any proofs to prove their predetermined beliefs, while ignoring anything that doesn't suit them.
Click to expand...
I agree that it's super annoying that people seem to think that only Russian ladies or more specifically Eteri girls have flutzes and don't get called, because let's be real, everyone has flutzes that don't get called, but still: Zhenya magically getting ! calls when she usually flies by with +3 GOE? Pretty strange isn't it? I think most people are always criticizing Eteri skaters because they get the highest GOEs, but still that doesn't take away the fact that everyone gets a free pass a lot of the time. But then again, Mariah, Eunsoo, Satoko and co aren't getting world records with flawed jumps are they?

And again, I don't understand your argument about 100-200% increase. JUST BECAUSE YOU DO LESS LUTZES DOESN'T MEAN YOU DON'T FLUTZ. The flutz was well known since 2017 and again, why should judges be reliant on how fans know about the flutz instead of well, doing their job and calling out wrong edges when they see it on the ice?
 
My biggest pet peeve with the ISU is they literally are so vague with their criteria. For example "good height and distance" for +GOE on jumps. Like what is good height and distance? What if someone literally just thinks that Berestovskaya or Miyahara have good height and distance, unironically too? They really should be giving actual criteria so the judging isn't so wack.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

AlexBreeze
2026-27 Russian Women's Figure Skating
4 5 6
Replies
113
Views
11K
lariko
lariko
AlexBreeze
2026-27 Russian Ice Dance
Replies
7
Views
1K
lariko
lariko
AlexBreeze
2026-27 Russian Pairs Figure Skating
2 3
Replies
41
Views
4K
lariko
lariko
AlexBreeze
  • Locked
2025-26 Russian Women's Figure Skating
19 20 21
Replies
408
Views
63K
AlexBreeze
AlexBreeze
AlexBreeze
Alexander Grishin Memorial Evening | Oct 05, 2025
Replies
14
Views
3K
tina45677
T
Back
Top