Coaches' Corner

[ali0125]

I don't think Plushenko's opinions are personal but some EG fans' really do

 

[Edwin]

Judges are people, they don't like to get insulted by a beginner coach, or any coach whatsoever, in public.

Plus, I still don't like the phrase "I know where these people are and by whom they are driven" from the Sports Ekspress interview. And obviously, Kuznetsov was not pressing at all. Is that an implied threat?

We'll see how it goes in Kazan and then in Moscow, two times, and finally in Chelyabinsk.

Plyushchenko should be glad there won't be ISU tournaments this year and with next year's Euros and Worlds still uncertain?

 

[anonymoose_au]

Also...I sometimes click that "Show ignored content" button even though I shouldn't, but Plushy's disgusting behaviour at Stage 2 are you serious?

He waggled his eyebrows for God's sake, you know what he didn't do? Turn away from his student when she made the tiniest mistake. I'm looking at you, Danill G. Plushy clapped for Sasha in encouragment when she made mistakes, I know which I'd prefer.

 

[Edwin]

Other people have already described the behaviour of Plyushchenko the show off in far stronger terms here on this board.

Best leave it at that.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Oh yeah and now it's so awful he has fun at his Academy? But...but I thought it was a gulag where promising skaters are carried kicking and screaming and forced to skate all for Plushy's self-aggrandizement.

Oh well let's not let facts get in the way of a good hate-fest hey.

 

[flanker]

Sasha was called '!' on her flip in both SP and FS, Daria was called on her Lutz in neither. And she had two Lutzes in the FS!

As for "such terrible choreo" I apologise for what I said about Kamila, it was unfair of me, but I stand by my view that her FS is no piece of art.

And as a big fan of Plushy and Liza T I've heard more about my faves having "terrible choreo" than most. And about how technique means nothing as if the two of them have no artistry whatsoever. It may not be the artistry of the Eteri girls, but it's there even if people don't like it.

Yes, but the difference between "!" and "e" is significant, bigger than between no call and "!" as with "!" you can still get positive GOE and the BV doesn't change, while with "e" the BV goes down (e.g. BV for 3Lze is 4.72 instead of 5.9). What can I say if this is not challenged by Plushenko or his fans. As I say, if Plushy fans only write how his skaters are "improving so much" (or use other superlatives) while others, esp. Eteri's skaters, are literally chased like animals and even the tiniest faults, real or fabricated,are "analyzed" for pages and pages (why they don't fix this, why that is still the problem, why they do such sloppy choreos, they look so sad at trainings while we "we" have so much fun at trainings, Besti is on our side ), then I don't think there is any need to give a credit to it because the objectivity is the very last thing there. Really, at least for a moment try to read and compare your (and other Plushenko fans) comments about his skaters and Eteri skaters like you wouldn't have his picture in the avatar.

As for me, during the Plushy's golden era I wasn't interested in skating yet, so I made hardly any comments about his choreos. As for Liza, complains about her choreos or layouts (actually I don't remember I would ever complain about the "artistry", I am pretty convinced that is something I do very rarely) go far back when there was no Eteri vs. Plushy clash (or Eteri vs. anybody in fact) and even currently you can hear that from all sides, not just one significant like the complains from Plusheko fans that always go so one side directed. At least the layout is pretty objective thing and once again objected from many sides. As I said several times, what Liza gains by landing a clean 3A, she loses thanks to wasteful layout of other jumps and combos/sequences - like the last season when her only 3-3 combo was 3T+3T in the short, and in the free she did on one side 3A+2T but the rest was just 3Lz+2A+SEQ and 2A+3T, she lost everything she gained by repeating the 3A. This season she does 3Lz+3T, but on the other hand she doesn't repeat 3A. I would have to check it more but I got the impression that either she repeats 3A in the free but has weak other combos or she does e.g. 3Lz+3T but doesn't repeat 3A and other combos are again weak, then of course I say it's problematic layout fromt he beginning, not to mention lack of transitions and other qualities.

 

[anonymoose_au]

This season she does 3Lz+3T, but on the other hand she doesn't repeat 3A, I would have to check it more but I got the impression that either she repeats 3A in the free but has weak other combos or she does

I don't want to get in a fight, but it's like when it comes to Liza suddenly ultra hard elements are super easy and she's just been lazy.

"Why don't you do another 3A, Liza? Where's your quad, Liza?"

Meanwhile, other skaters show a 3A in practice once and they're just so amazing and are future super stars and Olympic gold medallists.

And where to start with the criticism of Plushy's choreo? From Dick Button having a fit if he so much as paused in a program (even though every other skater did the same thing at that time), to the constant sneering at his arm movements, to having "no program" at Torino (really Dick? Then what the Hell did we just watch?!) to Sandra Bezic's unrelenting nastiness at Vancouver. Cripes you didn't need a message board to hear how bad Plushy was at choreography, just tune in to your nearest TV!

 

[Vlad Karigov]

Yagudin was hilarious today with his TV comments about 'some newly minted coaches'

Yagudin always with his comments so precise, I always liked his honesty when commenting...

 

[Fluture]

Yagudin always with his comments so precise, I always liked his honesty when commenting...

Well, this tells me everything.

 

[eliana]

Oh? Was he speaking about himself? How long has Yagudin been coaching now again?

God, how much Yagudin hates Plushy. I really think Yagudin is actually an unhappy guy who can't leave the past behind

 

[Alex65]

Yes, but the difference between "!" and "e" is significant, bigger than between no call and "!" as with "!" you can still get positive GOE and the BV doesn't change, while with "e" the BV goes down (e.g. BV for 3Lze is 4.72 instead of 5.9). What can I say if this is not challenged by Plushenko or his fans. As I say, if Plushy fans only write how his skaters are "improving so much" (or use other superlatives) while others, esp. Eteri's skaters, are literally chased like animals and even the tiniest faults, real or fabricated, is "analyzed" for pages and pages (why they don't fix this, why that is still the problem, why they do such sloppy choreos, they look so sad at trainings while we "we" have so much fun at trainings, Besti is on our side ), why , then I don't think there is no need to give any credit to it because the objectivity is the very last thing there. Really, at least for a moment try to read and compare your (and other Plushenko fans) comments about his skaters and Eteri skaters like you wouldn't have his picture in the avatar
...

Well then. I'm ready to see "e" for Sasha's flip if he is there tomorrow. As it was with her lately. I agree. But I also want to see "!" on all Lzs and Flips of Anna, as she has and had all these years. Let everything be fully indicated. I am for it. So it is for all other skaters. Russian or not. Everyone will be better off from this. But the problem is that this will never happen. And even here there are many voices who foaming at the mouth will claim that it is "slightly inside / outside", depending on preference. So the only solution for this situation is to be consistent. Or judge everyone, or no one. This is what Plushenko was talking about, and with which I can agree. Let's see further.

 

[yume]

e thing and once again objected from many sides. As I said several times, what Liza gains by landing clean 3A, she loses thanks to wasteful layout of other jumps and combos/sequences - like the last season when her only 3-3 combo was 3T+3T in the short, and in the free she did on one side 3A+2T but the rest was just 3Lz+2A+SEQ and 2A+3T, she lost everything she gained by repeating the 3A. This season she does 3Lz+3T, but on the other hand she doesn't repeat 3A, I would have to check it more but I got the impression that either she repeats 3A in the free but has weak other combos or she does e.g. 3Lz+3T but doesn't repeat 3A and other combos are again weak, then of course I say it's problematic layout fromt he beginning, not to mention lack of transitions and other qualities.

Liza has probably stamina issues.

I get the feeling if it was any other coach a lot more people would be applauding this.

Nope. There wouldn't be that many that would applause pettiness.

 

[readernick]

Well then. I'm ready to see "e" for Sasha's flip if he is there tomorrow. As it was with her lately. I agree. But I also want to see "!" on all Lzs and Flips of Anna, as she has and had all these years. Let everything be fully indicated. I am for it. So it is for all other skaters. Russian or not. Everyone will be better off from this. But the problem is that this will never happen. And even here there are many voices who foaming at the mouth will claim that it is "slightly inside / outside", depending on preference. So the only solution for this situation is to be consistent. Or judge everyone, or no one. This is what Plushenko was talking about, and with which I can agree. Let's see further.

Honestly, if the judges did start calling all the wrong and unclear edges a lot of ladies/federations would be upset. The only lady who I can say would clearly benefit would be Rika Kihira who has correct edges on all jumps. (the others ladies that I can think of with correct edges on both jumps have already retired/ but I am sure that there are others) Most other ladies have at the very least a flat edge on either the flip or lutz. (some like Anna have flat edges on both (although I think Anna's lutz is more of an e and her flip is flat)) However, I wonder if more consistent calls would encourage skaters to work on their edges and rework their layouts?

Anyway, I am definitely a fan of judging everyone, because even if they are few and far between there are some skaters who actually perform all jumps correctly and they should benefit from their technical accuracy.

 

[Amei]

Liza has probably stamina issues.

The baffling thing is that her layout has been an issue for years and if its truly a stamina issue they could have gradually increased her layout difficulty because she does so many competitions (excluding this year).

 

[yume]

Honestly, if the judges did start calling all the wrong and unclear edges a lot of ladies/federations would be upset. The only lady who I can say would clearly benefit would be Rika Kihira who has correct edges on all jumps. (the others ladies that I can think of with correct edges on both jumps have already retired/ but I am sure that there are others) Most other ladies have at the very least a flat edge on either the flip or lutz. (some like Anna have flat edges on both (although I think Anna's lutz is more of an e and her flip is flat)) However, I wonder if more consistent calls would encourage skaters to work on their edges and rework their layouts?

If URs too are more called it would be like 2008-2010. Yuna Kim (Rika) and the others.

Nah Finally it would be Kostornaya and the others. Flat edge on lutz like Kim on the Flip. But huge GOEs and PCS.

Rika is unique.

 

[readernick]

If URs too are more called it would be like 2008-2010. Yuna Kim (Rika) and the others.

Nah Finally it would be Kostornaya and the others. Flat edge on lutz like Kim on the Flip. But huge GOEs and PCS.

Rika is unique.

Well, a world where either Rika or Aliona dominate wouldn't be too bad IMHO :

 

[eliana]

Alexei is lacking in some areas as a human being or so it would seem. Such a great skater such a good-looking guy. He has no reason to be better. He married a fellow Olympic champion which is unbelievable and itself and they have two beautiful daughters. I hope that's not true that he hates little boys and would not allow his wife to give birth to a son. I actually figured he would look at his great rival Plushenko who has two sons with one being a promising figure skater and be envious of that.

Their rivalry was historic it was fantastic but it was over 15 years ago. I don't like that these guys still can't stand each other. I understand it but I don't like it.

I appreciate your comments ... I enjoy reading them ... and yes, you're right! But I don't understand Yagudin at all! In 2012 he attended Plusenko's birthday ... I was so happy ... all the kings on the ice ... I thought they were friends ... and suddenly, I don't know what happened. Yagudin, again and again, constantly attacks Evgheni and I can't stand this. Why? At least if it were impartial but not! He always has something against Plusenko.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I don't like that these guys still can't stand each other. I understand it but I don't like it.

Well it seems that the hatchet was buried in 2012, with Plushy's Just 30 show, but then Sochi happened and Yagudin just lost it. Perhaps he was upset on Maxim Kovtun's behalf (coached by Tatiana Tarasova), but he went way over the top.

But honestly, Plushy seemed to shrug it all off, it was only when Yagudin claimed Yana sent him a death threat (knowing full well that she didn't) that Plushy got angry. And knowing all that had come before can you blame him? In his position I would have told Yagudin where he could shove it loooong before that point.

Someone mentioned Plushy been upset at Yagudin skating at the rink that the Academy used to rent like it was him being unreasonable drama queen and it kind of was, but when you know the follow-up to it I find it more understandable.

 

[plushyfan]

Yaguidn was envious of Plushenko. Plushenko was much more popular, he is much more succesful as a skater, much more well-known, he is much more rich, etc. The Yag fans used to say he was better because he beat Plushenko at SLC. Yes, he was better on that competition but Plushenko was very young then and that was his first OG. ( Yagudin drunk vodka and he had bad behavior on his first OG )
The figure skating world like to talk about their great rival but forgot to mention Plushenko was 19 when they had the last fight so their great rival went during Plushenko's 15-19 years. Funny, isn't it? He was almost 3 years younger as Yag. Plushenko won their battles 10-8

Yagudin was well-known for the Fs fans only even in Russia for years.

-Early years: Plushenko arrived to St. Petersburg at his 11. The elder guys abused the young Plushenko in the team. They hit his head, humiliated him not once.

-The rivalry started in those years. They simply didn't like each others. Both of them thought Mishin prefers the other skater, pays more attention to him.
-Yagudin complained about it after 2006 because he didn't received gifts after SLC. But Plushenko did; car, flat, plot near ST. Petersburg!

-Yagudin had very "serious" tasks for years he commented Plushenko's things, what he is doing, why he is doing, what does Yagudin think about it..Plushy never reacted it. They were in relative peace.

-Look at what advertised Plushenko and what Yagudin. Plushenko: the most important only: Samsung,Mercedes,Porsche, Russian lotto, ( and many more, of course), Yagudin's most important advertising is the Herbalife goods..

-Yagudin rarely was invited in the international shows for long years. Plushenko was, there were years when Plushenko had 50 shows in Japan and many more in other countries...

-Plushenko invited Yag to his 30th birthday show. He didn't want to go, but Yana had device and she could convince him....
-Yag said he doesn't interest in figure skating at all, he didn't want to be coach , etc. this is not figure skating..
-Plushenko beame a fan of Hanyu and supported him-Yag started to support Chan

-2013: Yagudin supported Kovtun loudly everywhere.

-2014: Yagudin was the first who said to the media Plushenko faked the injury and went to say this in many mediums. Rudkovskaya never forgave it, she was much more offended by it.
This was already business interest Yag skated in Averbukh shows and Plushenko had shows, too.The Russian market is great but Averbukh had almost monopoly. ( Navka hadn't own shows then).

-Plushenko supported the gays in his CNN interview.

-After Yag wrote that tweet about the threat. He simply lied, he already knew that was a pranker's bad joke. The pranker said he wanted to reach a little spotlight with that. I said he wanted to destroy Plushenko. Yag's hate is big. His psychologist wrote he used Yag's hate thus he could beat Plushenko.

-Plushenko started to creat the best shows in the world with many innovations, never seen beautiful sights..

-Rudkovskaya announced their next show will be Nutcracker-Averbukh did it 1-2 months later. Same show the Nutcracker....Well, Averbukh lost in all aspects.

-Two years ago Yagudin went to perform to the Plushenko Academy, someone rented the rink and Yag was the performer on it. No one asked Plushy about it. In his post on IG Plush joked he said there is a new angel in his school. And then Yana came to the party and wrote bad words on Yag. I agree with her.

- Yag received a school from the Belorussian fs federation in Minks. Thus he is a coach already...

and so on and so on..

I don't think Plushenko had more reasons to hate Yagudin for years. Yag fans used to say he did not forgive Yagudin for defeat in 2002. Stuidity. He won his title, he had 4 OG medals.. Plus he was beaten by Joubert and Sandhu, too..they are in good relationships, Sandhu calls him friend, Plushy invited him in many shows, they travelled together in Russia.

These are interesting details but aren't interesting in that theme: if we watch what did they do for the figure skating.. If we compare them to each other Plushenko is the winner by far for many reasons. If anyone interested in the reasons......it's easy.
Yagudin has no right to say biased words in his commentary. He is a commentator not a fan or hater. I see Plushenko haters liked it, of course..but Yag has no right to say such words if he sits in that chair.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Ahem in attempt to move the thread forward, I was just wondering about another former Mishin student turned coach - Alexei Urmanov. I know he's had some high profile students over the years, but when did he start coaching? What are his facilities like? He seems to have quite a few juniors will he become a force to be reckoned with in the future?