Will Asada or Kim match Kwan's record for consecutive world podium finishes?

[Mathman]

Victor Petrenko had a huge streak as well if I recall.. Two Olympic medals, I think medals at 5 world championships? Alexei Yagudin and Plushenko have a lot of world medals too.

Katerina Witt had a pretty big streak if I recall....

We don't have to rely on memory, we can look it up!

Consecutive podium finishes at Worlds:

Plushenko: 2 (1998-99 and 2003-04)
Petrenko: 3 (1990-92)
Witt: 5 (1984-88)
Yagudin: 6 (1999-2002)

Very impressive. It is hard to maintain a streak like this.

Honestly, I don't think streaks are that rare.

A steak of 9 or more podium finishes at Worlds has happened twice in a hundred years of ladies figure skating.

I guess we have different definitions of "rare."

 

[Mathman]

PS. Ulrich Salchow: 6 (1999-2005; there was no championship in 2001. I don't know if we should count 1999 because there were only three competitors, so you couldn't miss the podium.)

Dick Button: 6 (1947-49)

Irina Rodnina: 10 (1969-1978).

In all disciplines we have Henie, 11; Rodnina, 10; Kwan, 9.

So the question of the thread is, will Mao Asada or Yu-na Kim be able to do what Salchow, Button, Witt, Petrenko, Yagudin and Plushenko did not?

It's not easy. No, not at all.

 

[demarinis5]

Well said and thank you Mathman. Whether you like Kwan's skating or not you have to respect her record.

 

[R.D.]

..and with that Red Dog pulls his (automatic) subscription to this thread

 

[Mathman]

^ What?! You don't have an opinion on Asada and Kim's future prospects as premier skaters?

 

[R.D.]

post removed

 

[fumie_fumie]

ahh.

Midori Ito lasted quite a few years doing triple axels day in day out. I think she continued to do triple axels even as a pro.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Mao and Midori seem to be built very differently. Midori didn't have to contend with uber-flexibility spins like Mao does.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I did not say that Kwan´s record is tarnished, but without an Olympic gold medal it just is less impressive than what it could have been. In skating history Kwan of course will be favourably regarded for all her skating accomplishments, but in the same connection the lack of Olympic gold medal is something that will also be remembered.

In my opinion e.g. Witt´s accomplisments are more impressive with her two Olympic gold medals, four World gold medals and six European gold medals. All those make her an all-golden lady, so to speak. In the same way e.g. skaters that have won only one gold medal but won it in each major competition are to be regarded as all-golden ladies or men and as great athletes, too. That is not quantity, but it sure is quality...

I agree with this. The Olympic Gold is not the be-all-and-end-all it is made out to be by some. However with no Olympic Gold there is absolutely no way Kwan's record can be considered superior to someone like Katarina Witt. Katarina has TWO olympic golds, not just one, along with 4 World titles in 5 years, 2 other World silvers, 6 straight European titles.

That is not to take away from Kwan who had an absolutely incredible career inspite of the lack of Olympic Gold. However someone like Witt had an incredible career all around, which included TWO Olympic Golds.

 

[slutskayafan21]

She will be remembered as a beautiful skater.

Cohen was more consistent than people give her credit for too. Even though she never accomplished that single "perfect" long program, the reality is that a personal best competition for most skaters includes making a mistake or two. With Cohen, you could count on her to make just 1 or 2 mistakes and also display greater overall quality than almost everyone else. An "average" skate by Cohen was better than a personal best from 95% of the rest of the field.

Maybe a personal best comeptition for many skaters includes a mistake or two, but not for the very elite skaters. Kwan, Slutskaya, Arakawa, have skated multiple clean long programs in competition. Even other top skaters of her generation like Suguri and Sokolova have had perfect competitions. Every World or Olympic Gold since 1999 has been won with a perfect long program, and only in 2005 with an imperfect shot program. It would make no sense to expect someone on Cohen's talent to never do perfect programs when all her rivals did at various points, just because alot of middle-of-the-pack skaters may never pull it off.

 

[summervie]

Miki, at least, was able to hold it together in all portions of the event to come out the over-all winner (IIRC, she did the same thing at SA) -- neither Mao nor Yu-Na will win a lot if they don't learn how to keep it going through both portions.

Does Miki have any injury problems? Miki, plus (in future years) good events from Caroline Zhang or Mirai could very easily prevent Mao or Yu-Na from reaching Michelle's streak (9 straight Worlds), even if Mao or Yu-Na do end upwith a sizeable gold collection.

You forget about one thing. Very important, though.
Before the Worlds ALL cameras were pointed on Mao. ALL Japan waited for Her Gold Medal. Miki who?
Miki actually was in a quite privileged position back then: nobody pressed her that much. She was always on Mao's left and a bit behind, like a free bonus addition. And considering the magnitude of Mao's shadow and the heat of the Japanese mass media, I wouldn't say that 'position' was the worst option for her in the given circumstances. Remember what happened to Takahashi after the LP? He was sobbing like a new-born because of the pressure. A man, 21 years old. And nobody requested the Gold from him, I'd dare to suppose.
After ALL THOSE MONTHS OF EXPECTATIONS (and being just a 16 years old girl), I think Mao remained on her feet there where quite a few of the men would be lying in tears and blood (me included). And Yu-na. One more real Gold contender, and one more eternal target of the spotlights... The difference between her and Mao back then (in terms of the pressure and thus, psychologically), was that the Worlds were held in Japan.
Miki? Miki is definitely a great skater (and I really love her), but (imo) she is completely from another level of the Pantheon. Those were just her Worlds. The right place, the right time (at home and almost completely pressure-free). She deserved the/that Worlds and she won them, and people will remember her for this. Any comparisons between 'those two' and her? I am not sure about it.

 

[kittyjake5]

I agree with this. The Olympic Gold is not the be-all-and-end-all it is made out to be by some. However with no Olympic Gold there is absolutely no way Kwan's record can be considered superior to someone like Katarina Witt. Katarina has TWO olympic golds, not just one, along with 4 World titles in 5 years, 2 other World silvers, 6 straight European titles.

That is not to take away from Kwan who had an absolutely incredible career inspite of the lack of Olympic Gold. However someone like Witt had an incredible career all around, which included TWO Olympic Golds.

I don't think it is fair to compare Kwan to Witt . Witt has her record and Kwan has hers. Some people may think Witt's record is superior because of the 2 O gold medals, but it is a matter of opinion. To me both of these ladies accomplished greatness in the figure skating world but to call one's career more superior than the other does not make sense to me but that is jmo.

Maybe I will start a thread "Can Witt's Record be Beaten" lol

 

[Mathman]

Maybe I will start a thread "Can Witt's Record be Beaten" lol

Thank you!

I think some posters on this thread are punching a straw man. No one has claimed that Kwan's competitive record is more enviable than are the records of various skaters of the past.

What I am saying, is that it is hard for anyone to keep going and going and going without hitting a speed bump somewhere along the way.

Ulrich Salchow's streak of consecutive podium finishes would have been twice as long if he hadn't skipped the 1906 contest in Munich because he felt that, with all German/Austian judges on the panel, he woudn't have a chance to win.

Katarina Witt's streak would have been longer (she would have passed Button and Yagudin) except for a fourth place finish in 1983.

Slutskaya's steak was broken by illness, Plushenko's by injury.

Stuff happens.

Actually, that would make a good topic: What are the chances that Mao Asada will be able to tie Katarina Witt's record of 2 straight Olympic gold metals?

 

[summervie]

Actually, that would make a good topic: What are the chances that Mao Asada will be able to tie Katarina Witt's record of 2 straight Olympic gold metals?

I am pretty unsure about it, but if there's anybody who can do it, this is Mao.

 

[bekalc]

I think Yagudin has one of the most impressive records ever, not even Plushenko can match it .
Yagudin was 4 and 2 at the World Championships, and he medaled at every single worlds he skated in... Nobody, not even Michelle has that kind of win record at Worlds. Personally, I think that Katerina Witt's record is more well, impressive than Michelle's. Yes, MIchelle Kwan has five world championships, but Katerina has 4 world titles.

Yes, Michelle Kwan has 9 world medals, and Katerina Witt had 6 world medals. But Michelle Kwan also participated in 3 more world championships than Witt did, and I think this really should factor into people's assessment.

Besides, Katerina withstood the pressure and managed to win 2 Olympic gold medals, whereas Michelle never really managed to do that.

I'm sorry but I think Olympic gold should count for something, and I think that the two Olympic gold should put Katerina over Michelle, especially considering Michelle only has one world title over her, and as I mentioned earlier Michelle competed at more world championships.

 

[kittyjake5]

Sheeesh anyone else want to bash Michelle's record. What does superiority of Witt's record over Kwan's record have to do with this thread. We are getting off topic here.

 

[attyfan]

IIRC, when Witt was competing, there were no tours or cheesefests or assigned GP events -- anyone know anything about Katerina's "other events" (such as Skate America, which pre-dated the GP series)? how old was Katerina when she entered the senior international circuit? Did Katerina do a lot of triples after she went pro? Also, how old was Katerina when she first came on the senior international scene?

The current group of skaters, like Michelle, are competing in a world of tours, cheesefests and GP assignments (which Michelle didn't stop until the very end of her career). Furthermore, Michelle was doing triples in her COI tours during the post-whack boom -- I think Katerina had stopped doing them by that date.

The reason why I think this information is important is to determine the likelihood of any modern skater simply lasting long enough to compete in two Olys.

 

[Mathman]

I'm sorry but I think Olympic gold should count for something, and I think that the two Olympic gold should put Katerina over Michelle...

Becalc, I think you are arguing only with yourself. No one said anything about Michelle's record being better than Witt's. How did Katarina Witt's name even come up? (Oh yes, the ever-reliable Jaana. )The question is, what are the chances that Mao and Yu-na will manage to land on the worlds podium 9 consecutive times?

I do not understand who you imagine you are debating with?

 

[fsf9012]

I don't think it's fair to compare Witt's career to Kwan's. Since the early 1990, there have been no figure, so skaters couldn't rely on a certain part of a competition. You should compete with the up and comers who have benefits on jumps. It gets harder when you get old. Though I really admire Witt's accomplishments, I'd say she was quite lucky to win the the 88 Olympics. That was not long before the trend changed. I can't forget how beautiful Witt was when she competed in 1994, though. Kwan survivied among Bobek, Chen, Linpinski, Hughes, Slutskaya, Cohen, Butyrskaya and so on. Many come and go but Kwan was always there, which shows, I think, it's a lot harder to stay as one of the top skaters in the world for a decade.

Oh, sorry for off topic. I love both Mao and Yuna.

 

[Mathman]

Oh, sorry for off topic. I love both Mao and Yuna.

Me, too.

I don't know either of them, so I may be totally off here. But of the two, my impression is that Yu-na Kim likes the performance aspect of the sport, she likes being in the spotlight and entertaining the crowd. (This is interesting, if true, because when Kim first came to the attention of fans in North America, when she was training in Barrie, she came across as such a shy little flower!)

Anyway, I could easily see her retiring from competition after 2010 and doing shows -- maybe even branching out into acting, singing, modeling, etc.

Mao Asada, on the other hand, seems more driven. I think she, like Michelle, will never quit and they'll have to carry her off the battlefield on her shield.