Women and the Quad | Page 86 | Golden Skate

Women and the Quad

rollerblade

rollerblade

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
That's why they call it "attempted" instead of landed.

Same concept as attempted homicide - intentional act, but not successful.
 
M

Mawwerg

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
rollerblade said:
That's why they call it "attempted" instead of landed.

Same concept as attempted homicide - intentional act, but not successful.
Click to expand...
Actually I believe "landed" is also not a right word as for example Mako Yamashita successfully landed downgraded quad Salchow not so far ago.:)
 
M

Mawwerg

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
As for me I consider a jump to be quad attempt if there is a 4 before jump type in a score sheet. Any such attempt which doesn't lead to fall deduction I consider landed. An attempt without < or << call I call rotated. And an attempt without fall, <, << and e calls and with average GOE mark across all judges not less than zero I call clean.
 
M

Mawwerg

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
Quad attempts count: 174.

Skater - Attempts - Clean - Landed - Rotated

Quad Queen - 64 - 36 - 43 - 46
Shcherbakova - 29 - 13 - 19 - 21
Akatieva - 21 - 10 - 17 - 17
Berestovskaya - 13 - 1 - 8 - 3
Valieva - 11 - 7 - 9 - 11
Zhilina V. - 10 - 4 - 4 - 7
Liu - 7 - 2 - 5 - 2
Khromykh - 5 - 0 - 1 - 2
Tursynbaeva - 3 - 1 - 1 - 3
Samodelkina - 3 - 1 - 1 - 1
Yamashita - 2 - 0 - 2 - 0
Sakamoto - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0
Kihira - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1
Tarakanova - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0
Tuktamysheva - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0
Zinina - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0

Type of quad - Attempts - Clean

Toe-loop - 91 - 43
Lutz - 50 - 23
Salchow(a cursed quad :) ) - 25 - 6
Flip - 7 - 3
Loop - 1 - 0

Season - Attempts

17/18 - 10
18/19 - 36
19/20 - 89
20/21 - 39

If anybody finds a mistake of any kind here I will be glad to fix it.:)
 
G

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Mawwerg said:
Any such attempt which doesn't lead to fall deduction I consider landed.
Click to expand...
What if there is a step out or two-foot landing, i.e., no clean one-foot landing? With or without additional errors in the upper body control/maintenance of verticality, just not quite enough to occasion a fall deduction?
 
M

Mawwerg

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
gkelly said:
What if there is a step out or two-foot landing, i.e., no clean one-foot landing? With or without additional errors in the upper body control/maintenance of verticality, just not quite enough to occasion a fall deduction?
Click to expand...
Even if it was landed on a belly but somehow didn't lead to fall deduction :) . Otherwise I will be forced to estimate landings and I don't want to take such responsibility as I don't find myself competent enough.
 
C

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Mawwerg said:
Quad attempts count: 174.

Skater - Attempts - Clean - Landed - Rotated

Quad Queen - 64 - 36 - 43 - 46
Shcherbakova - 29 - 13 - 19 - 21
Akatieva - 21 - 10 - 17 - 17
Berestovskaya - 13 - 1 - 8 - 3
Valieva - 11 - 7 - 9 - 11
Zhilina V. - 10 - 4 - 4 - 7
Liu - 7 - 2 - 5 - 2
Khromykh - 5 - 0 - 1 - 2
Tursynbaeva - 3 - 1 - 1 - 3
Samodelkina - 3 - 1 - 1 - 1
Yamashita - 2 - 0 - 2 - 0
Sakamoto - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0
Kihira - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1
Tarakanova - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0
Tuktamysheva - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0
Zinina - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0

Type of quad - Attempts - Clean

Toe-loop - 91 - 43
Lutz - 50 - 23
Salchow(a cursed quad :) ) - 25 - 6
Flip - 7 - 3
Loop - 1 - 0

Season - Attempts

17/18 - 10
18/19 - 36
19/20 - 89
20/21 - 39

If anybody finds a mistake of any kind here I will be glad to fix it.:)
Click to expand...
Who attempted a quad loop in competition? Presumably Trusova, but when?
 
C

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Mawwerg said:
As for me I consider a jump to be quad attempt if there is a 4 before jump type in a score sheet. Any such attempt which doesn't lead to fall deduction I consider landed. An attempt without < or << call I call rotated. And an attempt without fall, <, << and e calls and with average GOE mark across all judges not less than zero I call clean.
Click to expand...

Do these numbers account for pops and whatnot? I've noticed in skateDB and other places, a singled/doubled jump isn't listed as a quad attempt, so it skews better for skaters who have popped their quads here and there.
 
rollerblade

rollerblade

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Can you tell from protocols whether a 2T or 3T was a botched 4T attempt? I mean, unless you are familiar with the skater and programs, how would you know without actually watching the skate?

Also, is 4T<< the same as 3T, in terms of base value?
 
M

Mawwerg

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Do these numbers account for pops and whatnot? I've noticed in skateDB and other places, a singled/doubled jump isn't listed as a quad attempt, so it skews better for skaters who have popped their quads here and there.
Click to expand...
Yeah, pops aren't counted as it can not be easy to differentiate a popped to triple quad and a planned triple or what kind of jump was popped to a double - a triple or a quad. However ladies do not tend to pop their quads. I think there're about 5 pops from Trusova and also Khromykh has very bad attempt which was counted as triple and nothing more in my memory. :)
 
L

lzxnl

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
rollerblade said:
Can you tell from protocols whether a 2T or 3T was a botched 4T attempt? I mean, unless you are familiar with the skater and programs, how would you know without actually watching the skate?

Also, is 4T<< the same as 3T, in terms of base value?
Click to expand...
Second question: yes, although the downgrade comes with a loss of GOE, so it's better to do a clean 3T than land a 4T<< (even if landed ok otherwise), unless Zayaking reasons.
 
A

Arbitrary

Medalist
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
lzxnl said:
Second question: yes, although the downgrade comes with a loss of GOE, so it's better to do a clean 3T than land a 4T<< (even if landed ok otherwise), unless Zayaking reasons.
Click to expand...

But having a 4T<< doesn't forbid you from doing two 3T in the same program.

It was considered a swan song for Trusova to do 3Ax in SP and managing FP with no 2x jumps at all. Getting rid off double jumps in overall costs more than even Olympics.
 
G

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
bubblecherry said:
I’m pretty sure it does? You can do it, but if your 4T gets called downgraded, then your second 3T would be invalidated, I’m pretty sure.
Click to expand...
If it gets called as 4T<< it will not invalidate a second 3T.

If it gets called as 3T, it will.

Way back in 2003-04, at the very beginning of IJS, downgraded jumps were called as the lower revolution jump. This led to problems with a skater losing credit for a perfectly good 3T because of a downgraded quad earlier in the program. And the skater would have no way of knowing during the program whether the earlier jump had been downgraded to a triple.

Remember that jumps were downgraded if any more than 90 degrees short of rotation.

The next year the < symbol was introduced so that triples and downgraded quads from the same takeoff would have different codes.

And in 2010-11, the distinction between downgrade and underrotation, << vs. <, was introduced.

-Ellyn
 
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