2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 670 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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Some thoughts. Sorry, no TL/DR for that essay, it‘s just a bunch of random thoughts strung together. :laugh:

Anna: I have no idea how she did that. Such a warrior inside this tiny little girl, it‘s insane! That was probably (minus the spin) the best performance of that SP and I have nothing but respect for her as a person and athlete.

That being said, though, I find it highly irresponsible that she‘s being allowed to skate here. She was gasping for air after the SP and those breaths didn‘t sound healthy at all. This competition isn‘t worth risking her health over and I‘m disappointed they didn‘t withdraw her. She‘s a fighter, she‘ll do well and medal, maybe even win, but at what cost we don‘t know. Is it worth it for a season like that, when RusFed has already said that the selection for Worlds won‘t be based on Nationals alone? I just hope she‘ll be safe. :pray:

Also, her lutz should have been called e or at least ! but that‘s nothing new and never going to happen unless she changes coaches.

Kamila: She looked so sad in her interview which just shows the insane pressure on her. She still skated really well, only fell on a 3A at her first senior Nationals!! I love the program, I love her spins and extensions and I‘m sure she‘ll get the 3A right next time.

The GOE and PCS are insane, however. For her spins she deserves +5s all across the board but that combo with the edge change between the two jumps? No way. And 37+ in PCS for a program with a serious error? I don‘t think so.

Daria was nervous and you could tell. Some small bobbles here and there but she fought. Last season, she‘d probably have had a step out or even a fall but not this year. Her consistency has really improved, good job on that. Other than that, though, I don‘t understand her scores at all. Her lutz was a flutz with an insecure landing but still got +1.35 GOE? Same for the step sequence with the obvious stumble - how did that get positive GOE? It‘s ridiculous.

Sasha did well here and I like this program infinitely more when she‘s not stressed out about the 3A. Especially the opening section works much better and you can actually see her improvements on the artistic side - she‘s calmer, doesn‘t rush as much and holds her movements just beautifully. Then, however, the nerves got to her a bit in terms of performance. The step sequence is rushed and, talking about the choreo, I have to say that the backbend doesn‘t match the music at all and always looks sloppy. Take it out already!

That being said, the score‘s a farce. Sure, she‘s not a 35 PCS skater but let‘s be real, that‘s Nationals, it‘s expected. She’s not underscored at all (quite the contrary), the problem arises in comparison to others. Kamila fell and yet got 2 points more in PCS? And Sasha was the ONLY one (of the top 7) in the SP to get an edge call, when BOTH Anna and Daria have a lutz edge that is at least as problematic as Sasha‘s flip. Yet the judges somehow missed both of them, while noting Sasha‘s. If this is not biased judging, I don‘t know what is.

To put it into perspective: Last year‘s SP scored about a point more, despite Sasha having improved heaps and bounds when it comes to artistry and skating skills.

And again. I want to make this very clear. The problem is not Sasha‘s score being too low. It‘s Kamila scoring almost 80 with a fall and getting 37 in PCS, Daria leading despite a lutz edge issue and a stumble and Anna being ahead by 5 points with a messed up spin and an equally problematic lutz edge. It‘s just not fair at all and I can understand Plushenko‘s feelings.

Not his reaction, however. That was immature and unprofessional and probably did more harm than good. Sasha looked uncomfortable, too. Honestly, he needs to take lessons from Mishin on how to develop a pokerface because right now, he‘s shooting himself in the foot with this stupidity.

A lot about Sasha and the judging drama, so, some words on other skaters:

Liza did really well! Step out on the axel and stumble during the steps, sure, but she‘s coming back after covid, so that was a great effort by her. Score seems about right but again, only when looked at in isolation. In comparison to the leaders, the difference becomes ridiculous.

I loved Nugumanova and was so, so, so happy to finally see her get what she deserves. That 3Lo+3Lo looked clean to me and the judges actually called it as such! Her interpretation, spins, program.. it‘s all so wonderful and I‘m just having my fingers crossed that she‘ll do similarly well in the FS.

Maiia had a good SP and I don‘t see how she‘s two points worse than Daria in PCS. Actually, to me Maiia skated better today, she looked more secure and confident and actually performed her program. I guess she‘s being punished for her inconsistency there.

I also don’t get what they have against poor Sofia. Sure, that lutz was UR and had edge issues, too, but she always gets butchered whereas others are given free reign? Makes no sense to me.

I was sad for Frolova, Konstantinova, Tarakanova and Talalaikina. Hoping they can all come back strongly tomorrow.
 
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I'm starting to think that covid is the first disease people ever heard of the symptoms and possible consequences. Next time I will feel sick I'll leave the diagnosis on the golden skate forum :laugh:

As for the "favouritism": Let's be honest, those rantings are about maybe one and the tenths of points. While I would put Sasha in the third place (Kamila would still be second, that's it), this has little to no effect to how the order will be tomorrow. If Sasha will skate clean, the difference between her and Daria with no ultra-c will be not point or two, but like 10 or 15. Partial favouritism, if we call it that way, can work across the teams, jut like we were talking about it at the cup stages. For instance I agree that Maiia's PCS shouldn't be lower (or at least significantly lower) than Daria's today, I would also put her over Liza Nugumanova and Liza Tuktamysheva (who did some middle-level mistakes while Maiia, who is supposed to be privileged but is not according to the score, was clean). That's how it works in this kind of sport, no matter the team.

Also, At the paralell japanese nationals there was obvious favouritism as well (precisely how I said it after NHK trophy), but it's enough to state it calmly ;)
 
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As for the "favouritism": Let's be honest, those rantings are about maybe one and the tenths of points. While I would put Sasha in the third place (Kamila would still be second, that's it), this has little to no effect to how the order will be tomorrow. If Sasha will skate clean, the difference between her and Daria with no ultra-c will be not point or two, but like 10 or 15. Also, At the paralell japanese nationals there was obvious favouritism as well (precisely how I said it after NHK trophy), but it's enough to state it calmly ;)
🙄 of course the point difference now is small, of course she can make it up, but that’s not the point. No one is saying Sasha should’ve gotten 80+. What we’re saying is that everyone should be scored on the same criteria. Minuscule differences, <1pt, have decided the OGM, so no, sloppy judging like edge comparisons between the third and 4th place skaters at a national competition shouldn’t be overlooked just because you don’t think it’s going to matter in the end.
 
It's hilarious how this forum erupts when results don't go the way they wanted. Too many long winded posts showing off judging skills and fake concerns. On to better topics, Anna was just beautiful today. I was probably more nervous than the Empress Eteri Georgievna watching Anna's skate. I was so happy she pulled through. That was her best performace of this short this season.
 
I'd say even though I might agree with the sentiment Plushy had after seeing Trusova's score, the thumbs down was maybe too much. Save that for the discussion post SP event, try to ask for explanations to judges and RusFed.

As for the performances Nugumanova was my favourite here. She was perfect in this short, jumps looked fully rotated finally, good outside edge on the lutz, the program is very charming too, she projects a lot. Amazing spins as always.

I liked Trusova's short too, the new costume worked and she was very clean here.

The others, don't really want to discuss about the top spots because i called it months ago, it's already set in stone who's winning or at least from which group, and probably because of that, you see more mistakes than in the past, when there used to be an actual competition for the top spots and skaters HAD to skate clean.

It seems to me that the Russian judges are this season very consistent with their short program PCS:s

The top girls are put into two groups:
37+ Anna, Alyona, Kamila
35+ Liza, Sasha, Dasha

Not as consistent with the technical elements as we are all pretending this season.

PCS are the typical Nationals "we love everyone, we love our top skaters even more", the shady work is more on GOE, calls and fake calls, steps sequence level low for anyone but our favs, and most importantly their "Bonus" for spins which is completely arbitrary.
 
🙄 of course the point difference now is small, of course she can make it up, but that’s not the point. No one is saying Sasha should’ve gotten 80+. What we’re saying is that everyone should be scored on the same criteria. Minuscule differences, <1pt, have decided the OGM, so no, sloppy judging like edge comparisons between the third and 4th place skaters at a national competition shouldn’t be overlooked just because you don’t think it’s going to matter in the end.
Sorry but particular people who see only one side of the coin also keep forgetting that in the past competitions for instance Sasha's clear wrong edge was not receiving "e" as it should, while those particular people were only ranting about Kamila's and Daria's components. And no one of the people who literally became vulgar about one thing, ever admitted the other one. So, do not even try to tell me something about "the same criteria", becauase that's not the thing.
 
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I’m Some thoughts. Sorry, no TL/DR for that essay, it‘s just a bunch of random thoughts strung together. :laugh:
I totally agree with everything you said. Can we please stop pretending the favoritism doesn't exist? It's not new to Eteri's skaters, and it's not unique to them either when you look worldwide and within Russia, but it's there.

I'm starting to think that covid is the first disease people ever heard of the symptoms and possible consequences. Next time I will feel sick I'll leave the diagnosis on the golden skate forum :laugh:

As for the "favouritism": Let's be honest, those rantings are about maybe one and the tenths of points.
Rantings? I know things will get heated in here (they always do) but I have not seen anything resembling a "rant" yet including the long, but clear-headed and kind post from Fluture I quoted above.
 
It's hilarious how this forum erupts when results don't go the way they wanted. Too many long winded posts showing off judging skills and fake concerns. On to better topics, Anna was just beautiful today. I was probably more nervous than the Empress Eteri Georgievna watching Anna's skate. I was so happy she pulled through. That was her best performace of this short this season.
Anna really was beautiful, I am happy she is in first place now, that was absolutely fair and well deserved, but I don't think people displayed "fake" concerns, if you mean the ones about her breathing. Sounded scary to me, too.
As for unwanted results, well... Do you really think that a talented girl (with very good skating this time) deserves punishing for the dumb behaviour of her coach?
 
It's hilarious how this forum erupts when results don't go the way they wanted. Too many long winded posts showing off judging skills and fake concerns. On to better topics, Anna was just beautiful today. I was probably more nervous than the Empress Eteri Georgievna watching Anna's skate. I was so happy she pulled through. That was her best performace of this short this season.
Anna should receive a medal just for the bravery and strength. Apart from that botchered spin you wouldn't tell there is something wrong with her till she finished. Only then you could hear her deep breath even though she still stood in the middle of the arena. I simply hope people who have more information than me are judging her condition well currently.

as for the judging - yes, there are things I would judge differently myself today, but let's not play it's just one way ticket. That's why I can hardly come to an agreement with some particularly loud people here.
 
Sorry but particular people who see only one side of the coin also keep forgetting that in the past for instance competitions Sasha's clear wrong edge was not receiving "e" as it should, whgile particular people were only ranting about Kamila's and Daria's components. And no one of the people who literally became vulgar about one thing, ever admitted the other one. So, do not even try to tell me something abput "the same criteria", becauase that's not the thing.

Personally I'll start to talk about Trusova's edge on the flip when we start to see the same treatment for Daria/Anna Lutze. :shrug:

Worth reminding that last season Trusova has never received an edge call on her exact same flip. (same entrance, take off and everything)

Might need some evidence that her flip actually got worse this season.
 
Okay. So comparing PCS with last year.

Anna got: 37.80 this year and 36.07 last year. (She got 35.17 at Euros.)
Sasha got: 35.45 this year and 34.83 last year. (She got 34.42 at Euros.)
Both were fairly clean. So, not crazy differences from last year and Anna is the 2x defending Russian champion. And the skater with the most impressive resume in the past year (other than maybe Kamila) that was there. (They're getting Alena/Evgenia/Alina PCS but they're not here and it's not like Anna and Kamila don't score super well internationally PCS wise.) It's also not like Sasha's PCS dropped.
For comparison, Liza got: 35.40 this year and 34.65 last year.

Also looking at Kamila's 3Lz-3T. She got 12.88 at Junior Worlds and 13.39 here. For comparison, Sasha's 3Lz-3T got a 13.22 here and a 13.05 at nationals last year and a 13.05 at Euros. Anna's 3Lz-3Lo got a 14.07 here and a 13.82 at nationals last year and a 13.48 at Euros.
So higher yes, but considering nationals, not crazily.
 
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Personally I'll start to talk about Trusova's edge on the flip when we start to see the same treatment for Daria/Anna Lutze. :shrug:

Worth reminding that last season Trusova has never received an edge call on her exact same flip. (same entrance, take off and everything)
There are, and were, plenty of people who were complaining about Daria's edge, which should receive "!" on this or that event. It started with them complaining about it at the stage two of the Cup, while the same people (and nobody else before them) didn't complain about Sasha's wrong edge at the same event, that should receive "e", which does more serious impact in the score than uncalled "!". So you definitely have wrong order of events here ;)
 
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Personally I'll start to talk about Trusova's edge on the flip when we start to see the same treatment for Daria/Anna Lutze. :shrug:

Worth reminding that last season Trusova has never received an edge call on her exact same flip. (same entrance, take off and everything)

Might need some evidence that her flip actually got worse this season.
That's what happens when you're no longer with the #1 coach in the country/world. If she had gone to someone else who had better results and influence she would have continued not getting called on it but Plushkenko doesn't have that power (yet) so now she gets called. It's the same in every country's federation politcs and not just Russia.

Edit: if Plushkenko keeps acting the way he does he may never get that power. No federation will put up with that
 
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Some thoughts. Sorry, no TL/DR for that essay, it‘s just a bunch of random thoughts strung together. :laugh:

Anna: I have no idea how she did that. Such a warrior inside this tiny little girl, it‘s insane! That was probably (minus the spin) the best performance of that SP and I have nothing but respect for her as a person and athlete.

That being said, though, I find it highly irresponsible that she‘s being allowed to skate here. She was gasping for air after the SP and those breaths didn‘t sound healthy at all. This competition isn‘t worth risking her health over and I‘m disappointed they didn‘t withdraw her. She‘s a fighter, she‘ll do well and medal, maybe even win, but at what cost we don‘t know. Is it worth it for a season like that, when RusFed has already said that the selection for Worlds won‘t be based on Nationals alone? I just hope she‘ll be safe. :pray:

Also, her lutz should have been called e or at least ! but that‘s nothing new and never going to happen unless she changes coaches.

Kamila: She looked so sad in her interview which just shows the insane pressure on her. She still skated really well, only fell on a 3A at her first senior Nationals!! I love the program, I love her spins and extensions and I‘m sure she‘ll get the 3A right next time.

The GOE and PCS are insane, however. For her spins she deserves +5s all across the board but that combo with the edge change between the two jumps? No way. And 37+ in PCS for a program with a serious error? I don‘t think so.

Daria was nervous and you could tell. Some small bobbles here and there but she fought. Last season, she‘d probably have had a step out or even a fall but not this year. Her consistency has really improved, good job on that. Other than that, though, I don‘t understand her scores at all. Her lutz was a flutz with an insecure landing but still got +1.35 GOE? Same for the step sequence with the obvious stumble - how did that get positive GOE? It‘s ridiculous.

Sasha did well here and I like this program infinitely more when she‘s not stressed out about the 3A. Especially the opening section works much better and you can actually see her improvements on the artistic side - she‘s calmer, doesn‘t rush as much and holds her movements just beautifully. Then, however, the nerves got to her a bit in terms of performance. The step sequence is rushed and, talking about the choreo, I have to say that the backbend doesn‘t match the music at all and always looks sloppy. Take it out already!

That being said, the score‘s a farce. Sure, she‘s not a 35 PCS skater but let‘s be real, that‘s Nationals, it‘s expected. She’s not underscored at all (quite the contrary), the problem arises in comparison to others. Kamila fell and yet got 2 points more in PCS? And Sasha was the ONLY one (of the top 7) in the SP to get an edge call, when BOTH Anna and Daria have a lutz edge that is at least as problematic as Sasha‘s flip. Yet the judges somehow missed both of them, while noting Sasha‘s. If this is not biased judging, I don‘t know what is.

To put it into perspective: Last year‘s SP scored about a point more, despite Sasha having improved heaps and bounds when it comes to artistry and skating skills.

And again. I want to make this very clear. The problem is not Sasha‘s score being too low. It‘s Kamila scoring almost 80 with a fall and getting 37 in PCS, Daria leading despite a lutz edge issue and a stumble and Anna being ahead by 5 points with a messed up spin and an equally problematic lutz edge. It‘s just not fair at all and I can understand Plushenko‘s feelings.

Not his reaction, however. That was immature and unprofessional and probably did more harm than good. Sasha looked uncomfortable, too. Honestly, he needs to take lessons from Mishin on how to develop a pokerface because right now, he‘s shooting himself in the foot with this stupidity.

A lot about Sasha and the judging drama, so, some words on other skaters:

Liza did really well! Step out on the axel and stumble during the steps, sure, but she‘s coming back after covid, so that was a great effort by her. Score seems about right but again, only when looked at in isolation. In comparison to the leaders, the difference becomes ridiculous.

I loved Nugumanova and was so, so, so happy to finally see her get what she deserves. That 3Lo+3Lo looked clean to me and the judges actually called it as such! Her interpretation, spins, program.. it‘s all so wonderful and I‘m just having my fingers crossed that she‘ll do similarly well in the FS.

Maiia had a good SP and I don‘t see how she‘s two points worse than Daria in PCS. Actually, to me Maiia skated better today, she looked more secure and confident and actually performed her program. I guess she‘s being punished for her inconsistency there.

I also don’t get what they have against poor Sofia. Sure, that lutz was UR and had edge issues, too, but she always gets butchered whereas others are given free reign? Makes no sense to me.

I was sad for Frolova, Konstantinova, Tarakanova and Talalaikina. Hoping they can all come back strongly tomorrow.
Daria has a full on flutz but Anna has a flat edge. I don’t understand the people calling Anna’s flutz. Has she ever done one from an inside edge? The correct call would be e for Daria and Sasha and and ! for Anna.

As for Anna’s PCS, I watched the skates back to back and find that she should be way ahead of the field (and there should be a bigger distance between her and Kamila). She’s the only one in the top who gave a completely invested performance. The others have SS ahead of her but her PE/INT and also TR are much better. Not only is everyone on the music but all her transitions are held, extended, and she is performing each movement rather than executing it. It’s a complete 180 from Sasha and even Kamila as you can tell she was affected by the fall but Anna never gives anything away even when she has mistakes. There should be at least a 2+ and 3+ point difference with Kamila and Sasha, and there isn’t.
 
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