2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 713 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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Hey haha.

And then he followed it up by saying right after (in that exact article you linked by saying) "but now she had a negative test (for COVID), she really had pneumonia."
That doesn't contradict Anna/her team, at all. In fact it agrees with her statements, which is 1. She had pneumonia and 2. She had a negative COVID test.

It's also possible that she had a false negative test (tests in Russia are about 30-40% wrong but that doesn't mean she didn't have a negative tests) and she did have COVID and it developed into pneumonia. That's a super common known side effect of COVID. (But it also doesn't mean she didn't. You can get pneumonia without having had COVID, for example Liza years ago.) She's also not the only skater to get COVID-like symptoms and say they have a cold/fever (Sofia), pneumonia (Tarasova and her partner had COVID earlier in the season), cold (Boikova and her partner also had COVID earlier in the season), and acute respiratory infection (Khodykin). The last three also withdrew from events at the same time/same event as Anna and all participated in RusNats.
Yes, he said she had COVID, then she really developed pneumonia, and then (now) she had a negative test for RusNats so it was safe for her to be there. Whether he was accurate or not, no one knows. But to claim no one said she had COVID is simply wrong.
 
Well that'd just idiotic.

Honestly, I've never felt more lucky to live in Australia, most other country's are just proving themselves useless in the pandemic.
They do say, at least for RusNats, "Before the competition, each athlete is obliged to provide a certificate of a negative test for coronavirus". https://www.sports.ru/figure-skatin...kix-pravil-ona-davno-b.html?from=main-news-fs

So, they needed negative tests for at least that. But other skaters have tested positive at events and been forced to withdraw. I thought that was Aliona but I'm not sure right now. So clearly, some testing at other events was done.

I do agree it is the bare minimum.
 
Yes, he said she had COVID, then she really developed pneumonia, and then (now) she had a negative test for RusNats so it was safe for her to be there. Whether he was accurate or not, no one knows. But to claim no one said she had COVID is simpy wrong.
I said no one has definitively said she had COVID. He himself said "she really had pneumonia", which seems to imply that she didn't actually have coronavirus, she did however have pnemonia.

That's why I said no one has clearly and definitively stated she had COVID.
 
I said no one has definitively said she had COVID. He himself said "she really had pneumonia", which seems to imply that she didn't actually have coronavirus, she did however have pnemonia.

That's why I said no one has clearly and definitively stated she had COVID.
No, it means he says she did not lie when she said she had pneumonia. She really had it. Along with COVID. It is not contradictory as it is a common complication of COVID. He said it definitively. The title says: "Gorshkov: She was ill with COVID". That's an exact quote. Whether what he says is true, I dont't know. Neither do you.
 
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I see. Well obviously it isn't surprising. I have nothing but respect and concern for Anna. I even understand why her coaches and parents didn't force her to withdrawal. Although, I think that was the wrong decision. However, I do not have any such understanding or compassion for RF. If you have protocols, they need to be enforced. Testing for COVID, and temperature checks were suppose to be required. They should be required. It isn't ok to allow exceptions. That is how skaters like Anna end up with long team health consequences from catching this terrible disease. Several Russian athletes have lung damage from COVID, Med and several ice dancers. Many are suffering from breathing problems. Yet, RF continues to repeat the same mistakes over and over. It is so irresponsible.
Testing for COVID does seem to have been required at Nationals.

"Before the competition, each athlete is obliged to provide a certificate of a negative test for coronavirus, this condition was fulfilled by everyone who is in the clean zone." https://www.sports.ru/figure-skatin...kix-pravil-ona-davno-b.html?from=main-news-fs

Anna had a negative test at nationals. "she had a negative test"

Testing for fevers doesn't seem to be an requirement, nor does a fever keep you from skating. See: Sofia S at test skates who was allowed to skate her short program with a fever.

So, it does look like they did comply with all protocols. "Shcherbakova didn't break any rules." It could be argued - and probably correctly - that they need better rules/protocols. But as it stands, Anna and her team didn't do anything wrong.

It's the federation that needs to improve their rules.
 
They do say, at least for RusNats, "Before the competition, each athlete is obliged to provide a certificate of a negative test for coronavirus". https://www.sports.ru/figure-skatin...kix-pravil-ona-davno-b.html?from=main-news-fs

So, they needed negative tests for at least that. But other skaters have tested positive at events and been forced to withdraw. I thought that was Aliona but I'm not sure right now. So clearly, some testing at other events was done.

I do agree it is the bare minimum.
Problem is, I have no faith in them, like they're not even taking responsibility for the testing themselves? They're merely asking athletes to provide proof from a third party. Do they check theses 3rd parties? Make sure they're licenced? Do they have requirements regarding the test itself (apparently there's a few ways to test for COVID, some more accurate than others) so there's consistencies?

It's a total shambles.

Not to mention there's no way the Gala was held with only 30% capacity, the arena was packed! They can't even follow their own rules for one competition!
 
No, it means he says she did not lie when she said she had pneumonia. She really had it. Along with COVID. It is not contradictory. He said it definitively. The title says: "She was ill with COVID". That's an exact quote. Whether what he says is true, I dont't know. Neither do you.
That's the point though. No one DOES know - so then it can't be definitively - that's the very definition of the word. And none of this is inconsistent with all Anna and her camp are saying (which people are arguing are inconsistent so she must be lying) which is 1. She had pneumonia and 2. She had a negative COVID test. That's literally all they've said. Her mother has said it could have been COVID as well, emphasis on could have been. However, her test was negative.

EDIT: They've also said she had a fever and has at nights for as long as she's had pneumonia. However, that's NOT a conclusive symptom of COVID. It's also a symptom of pneumonia.
 
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Problem is, I have no faith in them, like they're not even taking responsibility for the testing themselves? They're merely asking athletes to provide proof from a third party. Do they check theses 3rd parties? Make sure they're licenced? Do they have requirements regarding the test itself (apparently there's a few ways to test for COVID, some more accurate than others) so there's consistencies?

It's a total shambles.

Not to mention there's no way the Gala was held with only 30% capacity, the arena was packed! They can't even follow their own rules for one competition!
Agreed. It's their own fault their entire national team is sick/injured. They do nothing to protect their own skaters and view them as expendable. It's wrong on so many levels.
 
Testing for COVID does seem to have been required at Nationals.

"Before the competition, each athlete is obliged to provide a certificate of a negative test for coronavirus, this condition was fulfilled by everyone who is in the clean zone." https://www.sports.ru/figure-skatin...kix-pravil-ona-davno-b.html?from=main-news-fs

Anna had a negative test at nationals. "she had a negative test"

Testing for fevers doesn't seem to be an requirement, nor does a fever keep you from skating. See: Sofia S at test skates who was allowed to skate her short program with a fever.

So, it does look like they did comply with all protocols. "Shcherbakova didn't break any rules." It could be argued - and probably correctly - that they need better rules/protocols. But as it stands, Anna and her team didn't do anything wrong.

It's the federation that needs to improve their rules.
I never stated that Anna did something wrong. I do think her parents and coaches did but, as I stated, I understand why.

My anger was and is directed towards RF. The way they treat their skaters and their lack of care for the fans, coaches and public at large is unacceptable. If you have a fever, you should've be allowed to skate during a pandemic.
 
«Щербакова не нарушила никаких правил. Она давно болела коронавирусом, но сейчас был отрицательный тес
Hey, and here we go again. I just remind you it was Goshkov who said it today that Anna had had Covid but long time ago so her skating with fever at RusNats did not put anyone in danger of catching it. This is what actually started all this discussion. So, no, that's not true that no one said explicitly that she had COVID.
The title above says: "Alexander Goshkov: "Shcherbakova did not break the rules. She was ill with coronavirus for a long time (long time ago) but now her test was negative"
It's all confusing especially with conflicting reports from different people.

In all this, did anyone mention that Anna had a positive COVID test? All I see is that sources are saying she tested negative for COVID but still had COVID? How does Goshkov know without a positive test (or maybe there was one and I missed that part)?

The only concrete information I got from all this was that Anna had an actual diagnosis for pneumonia. Whether it's COVID related is the questionable part. She could've still had COVID with a negative test as there are false negatives, but she needed a positive test to confirm.
 
I never stated that Anna did something wrong. I do think her parents and coaches did but, as I stated, I understand why.

My anger was and is directed towards RF. The way they treat their skaters and their lack of care for the fans, coaches and public at large is unacceptable. If you have a fever, you should've be allowed to skate during a pandemic.
Well her parents and coaches and doctors did want to withdraw her. They asked her to withdraw repeatedly even up to her 6 minute FS warmup.

However, she's not the only one who shouldn't have skated here. The same applies for Liza and Sasha (among numerous others).

I completely agree with any anger should be directed at the Fed.
 
It's all confusing especially with conflicting reports from different people.

In all this, did anyone mention that Anna had a positive COVID test? All I see is that sources are saying she tested negative for COVID but still had COVID? How does Goshkov know without a positive test (or maybe there was one and I missed that part)?

The only concrete information I got from all this was that Anna had an actual diagnosis for pneumonia. Whether it's COVID related is the questionable part. She could've still had COVID with a negative test as there are false negatives, but she needed a positive test to confirm.
All that can be said is: No, there is not a single relevant info that Anna had covid. Also one doesn't need to be infected with covid for pneumonia or fever.

Anything else is walking in circles with no interruption. So, me taking the english way: tomorrow will be a sunny but cold day.
 
It's all confusing especially with conflicting reports from different people.

In all this, did anyone mention that Anna had a positive COVID test? All I see is that sources are saying she tested negative for COVID but still had COVID? How does Goshkov know without a positive test (or maybe there was one and I missed that part)?

The only concrete information I got from all this was that Anna had an actual diagnosis for pneumonia. Whether it's COVID related is the questionable part. She could've still had COVID with a negative test as there are false negatives, but she needed a positive test to confirm.
No. That's why I said no one has said Anna had COVID definitively because NO ONE has ever said she tested positive. (Everyone else has positive COVID tests.)

All that can be said definitely is Anna had/has pneumonia and EVERYONE has said that. Everyone has also said she tested negative for COVID. (And that she had a fever but that's not contradictory to pneumonia either.) And regardless, from all accounts, she DID test negative at RusNats.
 
I left for 8h and came back to another covid novel.

The first was of the bad Evgenia who dared go to a park in Japan, but this second one rather longer and with many more characters than the first.

Only a few share the opinion of not agreeing with the decisions in both situations. Interesting.
 
It's all confusing especially with conflicting reports from different people.

In all this, did anyone mention that Anna had a positive COVID test? All I see is that sources are saying she tested negative for COVID but still had COVID? How does Goshkov know without a positive test (or maybe there was one and I missed that part)?

The only concrete information I got from all this was that Anna had an actual diagnosis for pneumonia. Whether it's COVID related is the questionable part. She could've still had COVID with a negative test as there are false negatives, but she needed a positive test to confirm.
Agreed. That's why I stated a few posts ago it seems to me to be a huge informational mess full of contradictory statements coming from different people with many details missing and many questions unanswered, and most probably we will never know what really happened. That's alright for me. But stating no one said she had COVID is not true, Goshkov did. Whether his claim was substantiated by knowledge of any medical diagnosis or was just a guess, a hearsay, or misinterpretation, I do not know. Just like any of us here.
His words sparked this discussion here again. That's all.
 
That's the point though. No one DOES know - so then it can't be definitively - that's the very definition of the word. And none of this is inconsistent with all Anna and her camp are saying (which people are arguing are inconsistent so she must be lying) which is 1. She had pneumonia and 2. She had a negative COVID test. That's literally all they've said. Her mother has said it could have been COVID as well, emphasis on could have been. However, her test was negative.

EDIT: They've also said she had a fever and has at nights for as long as she's had pneumonia. However, that's NOT a conclusive symptom of COVID. It's also a symptom of pneumonia.
I said no one has definitively said she had COVID. He himself said "she really had pneumonia", which seems to imply that she didn't actually have coronavirus, she did however have pnemonia.

That's why I said no one has clearly and definitively stated she had COVID.


Wording again. :)
no one has definitively said .... - wrong, Goshov did definitively say it
no one has said she definitively had it - well, he said it definitively but as he stayed short of saying she tested positive we have no way of knowing whether that claim was definitively proven or not.
And I never claimed it was. I claimed he said it.
 
Let me parse the inconsistencies for you.
Prior to the Rostelecom cup, when Scherbakova withdrew, the Tutberidze camp claimed that it was pneumonia and nothing more. They forcefully denied any possibility of Covid-19. Why? Because even the slightest suspicion would have implied that the entire Khrustalny site must be quarantined, thereby also precluding the participation of several of their other skaters in the Rostelecom cup, including Valieva and Zagitova. So their official statement at the time was that they were absolute certain it could NOT have been Covid. Because if they could not rule out that possibility with 100% certainty (or worse, if they knew she had been diagnosed with Covid), they are implicitly responsible for the spread of Covid at Rostelecom.
Fast forward to Russian Nationals. To provide extenuating circumstances for Scherbakova's mistakes in the SP, aggrandize her win, and push the 'heroism' narrative, camp Tutberidze made public statements along the lines that she skated with 38 C fever, still not fully recovered from pneumonia, and refused to let her fever checked. Naturally, this prompted the legitimate question of why Shcherbakova broke the rules, as high fever is a typical Covid symptom, which is why skaters with high fevers are not allowed to compete as a precaution measure. Given that they previously had stated that she did not have Covid, her high fever implied that she could potentially be infected at that moment, and by entering the clean zone there was a risk she may have spread the infection to other skaters and/or coaches. When they realized the blunder, Gorshkov tried to do some damage control by making a public statement reproduced in the article that was linked by other posters above. In that statement, it was claimed that Shcherbakova in fact had had Covid "a long time ago", and hence that by competing with a fever at Nationals she did not in fact endanger the health of other athletes, as they were certain she had had the disease before and was no longer a potential threat to other participants.
Therefore the following scenarios are possible:
(1) They lied pre-Rostelecom and were in fact certain that she had Covid, in which case they bear a huge responsibility for sending skaters that had been in contact with her to Rostelecom and infecting several athletes like Liza T, Aliev etc.
(2) They lied in the post-Nationals statements when they claimed she had already had Covid a long time ago, and in fact they allowed Shcherbakova to skate despite showing a major Covid symptom, in which case they put Russian Nationals participants at risk.
(3) They were never certain whether or not she had Covid at any given time point, so they lied both pre-Rosetelecom and at Nationals, in which case they endangered the health of other athletes at both events.
What is certainly NOT possible is that they could have told the truth on all occasions, as this would imply that they were 100% certain that Scherbakova both had and did not have the disease in November -- which is a logical impossibility. Ergo they must have lied on at least one occasion.
Q.E.D.

Nope. "Prerostelecom" teamtutberidze (actually Anna's mother, but who cares, right) said Anna has pneumonia and her test for covid was negative. During or postnationals no one of the team ever said anything about being tested positively for covid. In any case there was no inconsistency in what they, Anna or her parents said. What Gorshkov says is what Gorshkov says, it has merely any relevance. Also there was no rule that "Shcherbakova broke", that's simple fabrication.

Such "demonstrations" aren't worth of an old slipper, nothing but adding own implications or made up things. I am truly in awe from people's belive that covid is the possibly the only disease in the world.
 
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Let me parse the inconsistencies for you.
Prior to the Rostelecom cup, when Scherbakova withdrew, the Tutberidze camp claimed that it was pneumonia and nothing more. They forcefully denied any possibility of Covid-19. Why? Because even the slightest suspicion would have implied that the entire Khrustalny site must be quarantined, thereby also precluding the participation of several of their other skaters in the Rostelecom cup, including Valieva and Zagitova. So their official statement at the time was that they were absolute certain it could NOT have been Covid. Because if they could not rule out that possibility with 100% certainty (or worse, if they knew she had been diagnosed with Covid), they are implicitly responsible for the spread of Covid at Rostelecom.
Fast forward to Russian Nationals. To provide extenuating circumstances for Scherbakova's mistakes in the SP, aggrandize her win, and push the 'heroism' narrative, camp Tutberidze made public statements along the lines that she skated with 38 C fever, still not fully recovered from pneumonia, and refused to let her fever checked. Naturally, this prompted the legitimate question of why Shcherbakova broke the rules, as high fever is a typical Covid symptom, which is why skaters with high fevers are not allowed to compete as a precaution measure. Given that they previously had stated that she did not have Covid, her high fever implied that she could potentially be infected at that moment, and by entering the clean zone there was a risk she may have spread the infection to other skaters and/or coaches. When they realized the blunder, Gorshkov tried to do some damage control by making a public statement reproduced in the article that was linked by other posters above. In that statement, it was claimed that Shcherbakova in fact had had Covid "a long time ago", and hence that by competing with a fever at Nationals she did not in fact endanger the health of other athletes, as they were certain she had had the disease before and was no longer a potential threat to other participants.
Therefore the following scenarios are possible:
(1) They lied pre-Rostelecom and were in fact certain that she had Covid, in which case they bear a huge responsibility for sending skaters that had been in contact with her to Rostelecom and infecting several athletes like Liza T, Aliev etc.
(2) They lied in the post-Nationals statements when they claimed she had already had Covid a long time ago, and in fact they allowed Shcherbakova to skate despite showing a major Covid symptom, in which case they put Russian Nationals participants at risk.
(3) They were never certain whether or not she had Covid at any given time point, so they lied both pre-Rosetelecom and at Nationals, in which case they endangered the health of other athletes at both events.
What is certainly NOT possible is that they could have told the truth on all occasions, as this would imply that they were 100% certain that Scherbakova both had and did not have the disease in November -- which is a logical impossibility. Ergo they must have lied on at least one occasion.
Q.E.D.

Those aren't inconsistencies.

1. Absolutely no one has said that she had a positive COVID test ever. Even the first article everyone is quoting never says she did have one. The only things that where confirmed which is that she had pneumonia. Even the article everyone is quoting agrees with that statement. No one has said definitely that she DOES/DID have a positive COVID test (which by the way is the only way you can diagnose COVID.)

2. The diagnosis of pneumonia is the only one she has ever officially been given by anyone. Even the one article saying she had coronavirus says she had pneumonia. Those are also not mutually exclusive.

3. Fast forwarding to Russian nationals. Here Anna by ALL accounts tested negative for COVID. She did have a fever but it's not against the rules (for Russia) to skate with a fever. Sofia S was allowed to skate her SP at test skates WITH a fever (which she later said was a cold.) So this part is false: "skaters with high fevers are not allowed to compete as a precaution measure." It actually isn't a rule. Also a fever is ALSO a pneumonia symptom.

4. Therefore, by all account, she DOESN'T break the rules by skating with a fever as (1). She tested negative for COVID and (2). Skating with a fever is allowed (in Russia).

5. The only things you can say 100% is in regards to a COVID test and those are only 30-40% accurate. And Anna tested NEGATIVE. That could have been a false negative but it was a negative none the less.

So therefore, looking at your scenarios:
(1) They lied pre-Rostelecom and were in fact certain that she had Covid, in which case they bear a huge responsibility for sending skaters that had been in contact with her to Rostelecom and infecting several athletes like Liza T, Aliev etc.

Response: They didn't lie. They said she had pneumonia and withdrew her for that reason. That she had pneumonia has been confirmed by all sources (Anna, her parents, her coaches, the Fed) and they all agree. Pneumonia was the only thing she was actually diagnosed with. And all sources agree that she had it.

(2) They lied in the post-Nationals statements when they claimed she had already had Covid a long time ago, and in fact they allowed Shcherbakova to skate despite showing a major Covid symptom, in which case they put Russian Nationals participants at risk.

Response: They didn't lie. They (Anna or her camp) never claimed she had COVID. She was allowed to skate with a fever because she's allowed to skate with a fever under Fed regulations, as they stand. (Same with Sofia at test skates.) Regardless, here Anna tested negative for COVID. The only regulation is a negative COVID test which Anna had.

(3) They were never certain whether or not she had Covid at any given time point, so they lied both pre-Rosetelecom and at Nationals, in which case they endangered the health of other athletes at both events.

Response: They do seem like they weren't certain if she did have COVID or not. Regardless, at Nationals (at least) she tested negative, despite having a fever. Her mother herself seems to think she might have had COVID but each time she was tested her test was negative. So, by all rules, she was allowed to compete.

She's also not the only skater to skate at events when not completely healthy; however, considering she tested negative, she didn't break any rules.
 
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Wording again. :)
no one has definitively said .... - wrong, Goshov did definitively say it
no one has said she definitively had it - well, he said it definitively but as he stayed short of saying she tested positive we have no way of knowing whether that claim was definitively proven or not.
And I never claimed it was. I claimed he said it.
But that's the whole point. The wording is what matters.

Goshov didn't definitively state it. The only way to definitively (without doubt) state COVID is to confirm a positive COVID test which no one, including Goshov, has ever said happened. (In fact, the opposite is true - a negative COVID test was confirmed by Anna, her parents, her coaches, and Goshov himself.)

So, no one has definitely said she DOES/DID have COVID.
 
Nope. "Prerostelecom" teamtutberidze (actually anna's mother, but who cares, right) said Anna has pneumonia and her test for covid was negative. During or postnationals no one of the team ever said anything about acovid. In any case there was no inconsistency in what they, anna or her parents said. What Gorshkov says is what Gorshkov says. Also there was no rule that "Sherbakova broke", that's simple fabrication.

Such "proofs" aren't worth of an old slipper, nothing but adding own implications or made up things. I am truly in awe from people's belive that covid is the possibly the only disease in the world.
You don't think Anna skating with a confirmed fever and refusing to have her temperature checked wasn't breaking the rules?

It was! If we accept Anna had the right to decide whether to withdraw or not, then we must also accept that she broke the rules regarding temperature. Which frankly is disappointing, I mean seriously, what example is this setting? A very bad one.

The Coaching team isn't much better, posting a glowing post on Instagram about how they're the greatest and overcame adversity (not like that loser Aliona K and he fraud of coach, I guess).

No, no they did not, they deliberately exposed hundreds to an extremely infectious and possibly long lasting illness. Bra-freaking-vo.

Answer me this, if Plushenko had done this, if Sasha had been the one recovering from pneumonia, running a temperature, yet still won would you think it was so great? Or would you - rightfully - think he was at best, stunningly irresponsible or at worst a complete monster?
 
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