2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[TripleAxelQueens3]

1. We don't actually know what Aliona was thinking there.

2. From what we know of the rules right now, Anna isn't required to skate without a fever anyway.

3. How are you not also criticizing the "spectators who aren't wearing masks" rather than the girl who passed COVID checks. They, unlike Anna, are adults and it isn't their career. Also, they themselves arguably were even more irresponsible by not wearing masks and all sitting together. DO we even know anything about their COVID tests?

4. I'm concerned that you're implying that a 16 year old girl (who HAS tested negative for COVID) is responsible for the health of spectators who are refusing to wear masks and are sitting closely together.

I am in no way saying that Anna is responsible for making sure these spectators are healthy sorry if it came off that way. I don't even find her at fault here because I totally understand that her intention wasn't to endanger anyone, she just wanted to skate. It's just stupid that somehow temperature checks are not mandatory and someone can just refuse one in the middle of a pandemic. And even if Alyona wasn't thinking about Covid, let's look into the hypotheticals, her not hugging Sasha leads to just speculation about bad blood and maybe a slightly hurt Sasha (and they hugged afterwards anyways so it can't be that hurtful). If any skater (not just Anna ofc) refused to get their temperature taken and possibly had a fever or was contagious, a lot of people could be hurt. I know RusFed is incompetent so I'm not even sure why I'm mad at this point but do they seriously want every top senior competitor to get Covid?

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

We shouldn't be encouraging it. I very strongly disagree with it. (In fact I argued after the SP when I saw Anna's condition after her FS and read all the reports about Anna, Sasha, and Liza, that they should ALL be withdrawn.)

I just refuse to single out one girl when she's not the only one who has made questionable decisions. She's not even the only one at this competition. And she, unlike Sofia at test skates and Liza her, is a minor (as with Sasha) and so not even legally responsible for those decisions.

I refuse to single out one girl - especially a minor who didn't break any laid out rules - when she's the product of her environment and just wanted to skate and win. I would rather criticize the environment. I also refuse to single out Sasha who also despite injuring herself more repeatedly and needing injections just to compete on what even her coach said was "severe trauma" - also just wanted to skate and win. Especially as they're minors. But I also refuse to single out Liza either. Or Sofia earlier. Or anyone else. (All the skaters have done is done the best they can under their respective circumstances.)

The blame lies with the culture and those who perpetuate it - Fed, coaches, etc.

I agree with most of this but what is that about Sasha needing injections because I did not hear about that. Also, Sasha's case seems a bit different than Anna's, Sofia's and Liza's here. The thing about physical injury is, yeah, it's bad, but you can avoid certain jumps or movements in order to not further aggravate that injury (like Zhenya should have been avoiding that layback in 2018, I have no clue why she wasn't).

 

[Thrashergurl]

I don't think Anna is alone in wanting to skate regardless of illness.

She also wasn't breaking any rules (Russia doesn't apparently have rules against fevers). It isn't new to be allowed to skate with a fever - Sofia did that too. Do you think Sofia was also being selfish in wanting to skating at test skates? They both might have been. But it's not their job to think of others, first of all. Second of all, Anna tested negative for COVID so it's reasonable to assume (with the information she had) that she couldn't give it to others if she herself didn't have it.

You do know that the Covid screening questions for various situations include Have you had a fever in the past 24-48 hours, and require a temperature check, right? This is required for schools, doctor appointments, some restaurants, accessing a gym...and the list goes on....so to keep minimizing the fever issue is baffling.

I don’t know how anyone can defend and justify what was allowed to happen. I don’t see her actions heroic. I find it selfish and irresponsible. You disagree and that’s your choice. As I stated, I know too many people that have died from Covid and we take the precautions very seriously here. I guess Russia, and perhaps where you’re from, don’t?

 

[lariko]

Not sure anyone saw this, but here’s a Wall Street Journal Article on Russian Skating’s handling of the pandemic:

Russia’s Skating Dynasty Meets Its Toughest Challenger: Coronavirus

The novel coronavirus has done the impossible, dulling Russia’s skating rat race almost as swiftly as it’s felled the country’s top skaters.

www.wsj.com

nothing about Anna having a fever or coronavirus was mentioned

When I saw this article in the morning it mentioned her pneumonia, but the discussion about her fever spiking before SP didn’t appear until later in the day.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Honestly it's none of the girls's faults. Yeah, they shouldn't have skated, but we know how much skaters want to compete and skate. It's the utter incompetence of the federation to just enforce some basic temperature checks, Covid tests, and actually try to issue rules that require spectators, coaches and skaters to wear masks and social distance. Like, why they even hugging in the medal ceremony anyways? Why can anyone skater with a fever? In a normal time I'd say that's fine, but during a pandemic? Why is Covid testing not mandatory? The sheer difference between JNats and RusNats...

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

You do know that the Covid screening questions for various situations include Have you had a fever in the past 24-48 hours, and require a temperature check, right? This is required for schools, doctor appointments, some restaurants, accessing a gym...and the list goes on....so to keep minimizing the fever issue is baffling.

I don’t know how anyone can defend and justify what was allowed to happen. I don’t see her actions heroic. I find it selfish and irresponsible. You disagree and that’s your choice. As I stated, I know too many people that have died from Covid and we take the precautions very seriously here. I guess Russia, and perhaps where you’re from, don’t?

The poster seemed to imply that in Russia there were no rules against this. In other countries there are (as there should be). I too find the actions of RusFed completely incomprehensible, and that pairs top 3 picture where they're wearing a mask over their eyes as a joke perfectly sums up how the federation treats the issue - like it's a joke and not, you know a pandemic that is killing tons of people and leaving serious side effects on others (and literally almost everyone in the picture had Covid too... and I really like all three pairs too... ugh).

 

[anonymoose_au]

The blame lies with the culture and those who perpetuate it - Fed, coaches, etc.

Fair enough, but I would also argue there's one more group responsible.

Us, the fans.

When we praise what Anna, or Sasha, or Liza, or Zhenya Med or Yuzu at the Olympics or any skater competing with serious injury/illness we are glorify this behaviour. We are saying "We admire you, what you did is great! You're a hero!"

We're encouraging them to continue, because everyone loves praise and wants to be admired. It's what peer pressure is all about, people can be convinced to do all sorts of things under its influence, bully others, engage in risky behaviour all sorts of stuff.

People may be criticising Anna on this board, but is anyone doing so in real life? Have her parents or coaches or even teammates told her what a bad idea it was? Has anyone told Sasha or Liza for that matter?

No way! And if Liza was to get up and say "You know what, I wasn't fully recovered, I shouldn't have been there." Most people wouldn't applaud and say "You're right! Great insight!" They'd say "You're making excuses, you're a whinger, you're not tough enough."

Think of all the flak Plushy gets for mentioning Sasha's injury in the first place. Sasha appears to be embarrassed about it, as if it's a personal failure rather than an unfortunate event.

Perhaps the only way to change this is to refuse to participate. To turn off the YouTube or TV or whatever, to write to the ISU and the Russian Figure Skating Fed and say 'Enough, we don't want to watch this kind of stuff. Take care of your athletes."

 

[karina17]

Can someone please clarify once and for all where this is coming from? I'm so confused about the articles, about whether Gorshkov contradicted himself or not, about who said what about what, was it her mother or the team or who? And what's that about the Anna fever rumour being from an article written about being inside Anna's head? I just went through the last 10 (?) pages and I am completely lost.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Can someone please clarify once and for all where this is coming from? I'm so confused about the articles, about whether Gorshkov contradicted himself or not, about who said what about what, was it her mother or the team or who? And what's that about the Anna fever rumour being from an article written about being inside Anna's head? I just went through the last 10 (?) pages and I am completely lost.

Apparently the suggestion about Anna skating with a fever came from an article on sports.ru - apparently this is not a reputable website (although I have seen articles on it that are hugely critical of Plushy been posted like they're the gospel truth so I guess it depends).

As for the rest of it I have no idea although Gorshkov's claim about the temperature thing being BS is apparently also from sports.ru, so that doesn't help at all.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Apparently the suggestion about Anna skating with a fever came from an article on sports.ru - apparently this is not a reputable website (although I have seen articles on it that are hugely critical of Plushy been posted like they're the gospel truth so I guess it depends).

As for the rest of it I have no idea although Gorshkov's claim about the temperature thing being BS is apparently also from sports.ru, so that doesn't help at all.

The interview with Gorshkov does not come from sportsru it comes from an interview on sport-express, which sportsru quoted. Sportsru put a link at the bottom of the article and mentioned that they took this interview from sportexpress. Many articles on sportsru are them quoting other sport news websites (Tass, sportexpress etc.) and they always put the link of the original source at the bottom, so it's always wise to look at the bottom of a sportsru article to look where they got their information from.

Here the original interview with Gorshkov on sport-express:

Президент ФФККР: «Щербакова не нарушила никаких правил». Спорт-Экспресс

Президент Федерации фигурного катания России Александр Горшков в разговоре с «СЭ» объяснил ситуацию с фигуристкой Анной Щербаковой, которая выступала на чемпионате России с температурой 38 градусов.

m.sport-express.ru

 

[Flying Feijoa]

When we praise what Anna, or Sasha, or Liza, or Zhenya Med or Yuzu at the Olympics or any skater competing with serious injury/illness we are glorify this behaviour. We are saying "We admire you, what you did is great! You're a hero!"

That's why I've been feeling kind of guilty about watching Russian skating ever since the Rostelecom superspreader event...

I'm not sure though whether the pressure comes more from the fans or the federation. Even if the entire event was closed to audience/media (like Russian test skates before 2018), skaters in a competitive field feel obliged to compete to maintain their standings. And Zhenya/Yuzu competing at the Olympics is more about the fact that it's a once-in-a-lifetime, source-of-national-pride event - even if we fans were to turn around and say 'you're a selfish idiot for competing', that wouldn't stop them.

 

[Jontor]

What is this?

Sometimes this thread can be worse than TSL.

All these endless health concerns about who had a fever, who had pneumonia, who had COVID is just plain gossip in disguise.

Soon, we will probably hear that someone's flat Lutz edge is contagious and that the skater should not be allowed with others...

 

[Kittosuni]

OMG people are so hypocrite here.

You can see right through their bulllshite.

 

[FelineFairy]

I think it is very evident that you are writing from an Australian perspective.

Australia, if I am not mistaken, is a country that has resorted to very far-reaching measures to curb the spread of covid. Isn't there a total travel ban imposed on all Australians and you may not even leave the country? I might be wrong, but am pretty sure that the measures taken by the Australian govt in that regard have been very ... radical, and the infection spread was thus very minimal.

With that in mind, it is understandable why you feel that absolutely no risks of transmitting coronavirus should be tolerated, and getting the virus may seem like something dreadful.

You have to keep in mind, though, that in other countries, Russia included, the attitude to the virus has been much relaxed. No one is putting the entire areas in quarantine if there is a documented case, the contact tracing is minimal or even non-existent. Masks are often neglected, restaurants are open, private parties are being thrown etc (in Moscow at least) - whilst there is massive community spread. As a result people do get sick much more frequently, but it is not seen as the end of the world. People are no longer as scared to get the virus, so the guards are off, and this is socially accepted.

I think this lax attitude is prevalent amongst not only the skaters, who are young and fit, but also the coaches in their older years (Mishin). So I think you are ascribing everyone feelings and fears that they may very well not be having at all. My impression is that covid is taken much, much more lightly in Russia. Whilst it can seem bizarre to you as an Australian, it seems pretty reasonable for me who lives in Sweden. I mean... yes coronavirus can lead to serious complications but it is not bubonic plague... You criticising so passionately Anna, RusFed etc for not being cautious enough seems, to me, a bit disproportionate.

Thank you for this very well worded opinion. I agree with the most of it. It's difficult to try and explain again and again to someone that their cultural/national perspective is not the only one possible.
I am not a proponent of the Swedish approach, I actually prefer the Australian way, but I clearly understand it would have been impossible in Russia. This is not the place to tell why, but I hope people here stop phantasizing about how it should be, and applying their own ideas and rules to other people's lives. It is as absurd as some group in the USA claiming that "Nutcracker" ballet is racist.

 

[FelineFairy]

The culture is wrong

I share many of your opinions, and agree with most. However, in some of your posts (not only the quoted one) I would like to clarify what culture you mean - the culture of supporting competitive sports regardless of its possible cruelty or do you mean Russian national culture?
If it is the former, I would say we are still ancient Romans. Everything we enjoy is in a way connected to sportsmen/artists/actors/writers/poets/dancers etc. hard efforts, usually to the brink of suffering. Ever watched ice hockey? And there are junior teams there, too. If we agree that over-exertion should be banned, then we should stop enjoying late Beethoven and Van Gogh. That's a bit far-fetched of course, I am just driving that line of thought to its logical climax.
If it is the latter, I just ask you to think again.

 

[flanker]

Haha, you said something similar before about not wasting time on those nonsenses,
I am self-contradictory here. On one hand, I like to read your responses. On the other hand, I hope you can ignore them. Well, better not ignore anyone because you started this thread.

That's probably the reason for me why I still didn't put some people onto ignore list

I am able not to pay attention to particular things to some level, but above it it's something like supercritical amount of fission material

 

[Vemvane]

The three medallists from Nationals, looking pretty happy about their accomplishments.

More photos of the three of them at the press conference here.

Also, Sasha and her giant teddy bear.

Source.

And Daria has a giant teddy bear too!

Source.

And here's Evgenia on the ice at the gala.

More photos here.

 

[flanker]

The only thing I can say is that it is on Anna that she refused to take the second temperature check before the FP. If it was Aliona who was reported to have done this, she would have been cursed to the depths of hell for being a diva. (Yes I am salty at the double standards)

Anyhow, my definitive opinion is that all of Russian coaches, skaters, RusFed and skating fans are utterly irresponsible going by the prevalence mouth masks and banquets in the middle of a pandemic but it is their prerogative to spread a potentially deadly disease to their loved ones and get permanent lung damage.

My respect goes to poor Gubanova who sacrificed her whole season to protect others

It's purely speculative and nothing but saltiness.

 

[flanker]

I think Anna’s actions were selfish. Does this mean she didn’t deserve the win? No. It means she was irresponsible and her actions at this particular event were selfish.

I hope that IF a Worlds is held, the CDC guidelines will be in place and enforced, and if a skater refuses any of the tests (including a temperature check) they won’t be able to skate. However, based on what we’ve witnessed so far this season, I don’t see how a Worlds can be held.

And why her actions were selfish and not the others who were in similar position? Liza recently recovered from covid (confirmed) and no one doubts her here. Sofia skated with fever. Veronika Zhilina skated soon after recovering from covid at her first cup stage. I didn't hear complaints about it. Some people here stil say "what if other skater blah blah". But the truth is that other skaters in fact did exactly the same and do not receive the same hate of an angry crowd (because that's nothing else than that). So I don't take this pseudoargument at all. This is not about "unbiased judgement of the situation", this is namely about Anna.

There is literally no reason to think she put anyone in danger, definitely not more than the other ones who fulfilled the critera to compete and were tested negatively like her. She may have put herself in danger and that's why I was not for her competing here, but that's personal decicion of every skater made by the actual information, not by the half-truth from the media, cherrypicking only the pieces that fit someone's point of view or just insisting on pure lies.

 

[flanker]

Not sure anyone saw this, but here’s a Wall Street Journal Article on Russian Skating’s handling of the pandemic:

Russia’s Skating Dynasty Meets Its Toughest Challenger: Coronavirus

The novel coronavirus has done the impossible, dulling Russia’s skating rat race almost as swiftly as it’s felled the country’s top skaters.

www.wsj.com

nothing about Anna having a fever or coronavirus was mentioned

Unfortunately it is paid article. Any summary?