2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[readernick]

I hope they will not try to add any new jumps to Kamila's arsenal for next season, and focus instead on the psychological part with her.
Cause her biggest, maybe only, weakness is mental - being nervous. And for that a) making mistakes and b) having the facial expression of a scared little girl (which she literally is tho, I know) rather than expressing the program. There is clearly no physical limitation like those we start to see from the injured and "aging" former A trio.
She'll be at Russian Ladie Skater prime age next season. Give her good programs and work on her self confidence

I would hate to be 16 and to labeled as injured and aging with physical limitations.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I hope they will not try to add any new jumps to Kamila's arsenal for next season, and focus instead on the psychological part with her.
Cause her biggest, maybe only, weakness is mental - being nervous. And for that a) making mistakes and b) having the facial expression of a scared little girl (which she literally is tho, I know) rather than expressing the program. There is clearly no physical limitation like those we start to see from the injured and "aging" former A trio.
She'll be at Russian Ladie Skater prime age next season. Give her good programs and work on her self confidence

She may not need more TES if she has a solid 3A and one type of quad. However, she is getting great PCS marks and is pretty close to the ceiling there now, so it seems that one more quad would earn her more points than improving her (already fantastic) artistry.

 

[readernick]

She may not need more TES if she has a solid 3A and one type of quad. However, she is getting great PCS marks and is pretty close to the ceiling there now, so it seems that one more quad would earn her more points than improving her (already fantastic) artistry.

I have to disagree that her artistry is already fantastic. Her SS are good. Her extension is great. But, her performance skills and interpretation aren't. She usually looks like a scared child on the ice. (which is fine because she is a hugely talented scared child but it is something to work on) Domestically, improving her artistry won't help her much since the PCS they are giving her is already sky-high. But, it will help her internationally. I would stabilize the 3A and 3Lz first, and work on performance ability before adding a new quad.

 

[Amei]

She may not need more TES if she has a solid 3A and one type of quad. However, she is getting great PCS marks and is pretty close to the ceiling there now, so it seems that one more quad would earn her more points than improving her (already fantastic) artistry.

I think it depends on what Shcherbakova and Kostornaia do on whether Valieva needs another quad, back-load her quad toe, or needs to get a stabilized more difficult quad. Shcherbakova had said previously after she stabilized her quads after the long break she was going to work on getting the triple axel. So if she gets the triple axel that negates Valieva's SP advantage.

And the quad Valieva has is a low scoring jump in comparison to other quads (I think the lowest, but not totally sure) if it's not done back-loaded; Shcherbakova's BV of her stand-alone quad lutz and quad flip at Nationals were worth more points than the BV of Valieva's quad toe+double toe combination. A quad flip+triple toe like Shcherbakova was doing in practice (and as a stand-alone jumping pass it looked great) is worth more points in BV than Valieva's quads were with GOEs at Nationals and GOEs are generally quite generous at Nationals.

 

[colormyworld240]

But, her performance skills and interpretation aren't. She usually looks like a scared child on the ice. (which is fine because she is a hugely talented scared child but it is something to work on) Domestically, improving her artistry won't help her much since the PCS they are giving her is already sky-high.

I agree Kamila needs to work on her PE and INT, especially in her face, but I think she does emote through her body. For example, compared to Anna who I think emotes much more and committed to her program, Kamila basically got the same PCS even with a fall and a more nervous face so I don't the judges really care about facial expressions, unfortunately.

As for international PCS, we have to remember that she was scored as a junior. I believe her junior PCS is the world record. Before Kamila, Alena had the WR junior PCS, and Alina before her. And their first international seasons, they got top 5 PCS with the senior boost. Next season when Kamila is a senior, I can see her getting the highest PCS (even more than Anna in PE/INT) based on the current trend. I don't agree with it, but I expect it to happen.

 

[colormyworld240]

And the quad Valieva has is a low scoring jump in comparison to other quads (I think the lowest, but not totally sure) if it's not done back-loaded; Shcherbakova's BV of her stand-alone quad lutz and quad flip at Nationals were worth more points than the BV of Valieva's quad toe+double toe combination.

I love Anna, and I love that her quads are so straight in the air with smooth, soft, and graceful landings instead of the big "thud" and break at the waist that other quadsters tend to have. But, even though Kamila has lower BV quads, if she lands them to the best of her ability, that is with a straight axis and stable outside running edge landing, her 4Ts deserve the highest GOE and that will make up much of the BV difference.

Kamila's 4Ts are visibly much bigger than any of Anna and even Sasha's quads (and Sasha's 4Ts are already incredibly huge), and at her best she has so much speed and flow coming out of them. All her single jumps do, and even the 2nd jump of the combo does despite the hitch between jumps. Last year at GPF they had measured the speed into and out of the skaters' jumps, and while it wasn't measured for her 4T, Kamila's jumps have the same speed going in as they do coming out, something unique to her, and her speed going in was the highest too.

 

[Amei]

I love Anna, and I love that her quads are so straight in the air with smooth, soft, and graceful landings instead of the big "thud" and break at the waist that other quadsters tend to have. But, even though Kamila has lower BV quads, if she lands them to the best of her ability, that is with a straight axis and stable outside running edge landing, her 4Ts deserve the highest GOE and that will make up much of the BV difference.

Kamila's 4Ts are visibly much bigger than any of Anna and even Sasha's quads (and Sasha's 4Ts are already incredibly huge), and at her best she has so much speed and flow coming out of them. All her single jumps do, and even the 2nd jump of the combo does despite the hitch between jumps. Last year at GPF they had measured the speed into and out of the skaters' jumps, and while it wasn't measured for her 4T, Kamila's jumps have the same speed going in as they do coming out, something unique to her, and her speed going in was the highest too.

Well the problem is that Shcherbakova usually gets pretty decent international GOE on her quads as well, so unless Valieva is hitting max GOEs and Shcherbakova is messing up on her's then Valieva isn't wiping out the point deficit. Internationally without errors Shcherbakova's 4lz+3T combination was getting her high 18's-high 19s after GOE; her solo 4lz was getting 14-15 points after GOE, her flip was inconsistent last year so the points there look low but that replaced a low scoring double axel. Even if you look at Valieva's total quad score at Nationals (so each quad jump pass + GOE) she got 27.90 points, she beat Shcherbakova's total quad score twice from last season, at Lombardia trophy where Shcherbakova only did 1 quad and at Cup of China where she had several errors on the quads.

Shcherbakova's quads last year:
Lombardia Trophy: 4Lz = 14.03 -- Total points = 14.03
Skate America: 4lz+3t = 18.66; 4lz = 14.79 -- Total points = 33.45
Cup of China: 4lz+3t = 12.48; 4lz = 12.16 --- both of these jumping passes were given an edge call and the 4lz in the combination was called under-rotated -- Total points = 24.64
GPF: 4lz+3t = 19.15; 4lz = 8.81; 4F = 5.50 - the flip was a fall and the solo lutz was called under -- Total points = 33.46
Nationals: 4lz+3t = 19.97; 4lz = 15.94; 4F = 10.06 - the flip had a step out - Domestic scoring -- Total points = 45.97
Europeans: 4lz+3t = 19.31; 4lz = 2.95; 4F = 9.30 - the flip was called under and the solo lutz was downgraded and a fall. -- Total points = 31.56

 

[Greengemmonster]

How would Kamila fair against a clean Anna or Sasha with say a 3A in the short, 2x3A in the long and 2x4T.

Or is that not possible and asking for trouble (falls).

This is so exciting. They are all so freaking awesome we are wondering how many quads and 3As they have not whether they can manage a clean 3-3. We're incredibly spoilt to assume their 3-3s should all be clean. It's kinda crazy!

Also I'm thrilled to see they are all growing!!!! Not because I'm smug that they are going to lose their quads but because I'm smug that growing seems to have not really hindered their quads at all! Maybe we need never have the "Zzz will lose all jumps" argument again.

 

[colormyworld240]

A little off-topic, but I was just thinking that Sasha should really use either her Game of Survival or Unstoppable as a SP next season. Packaging is really quite important in an Olympic season, and both those programs really suit her and show off her personality well (her Unstoppable EX has 17 million views on YouTube!) And I also think that, while Kamila's Bolero is improving, it still fails to connect to the music whatsoever (choreography's fault) and given she's a favorite for Olympic Gold, I'd hope they give her something that helps shows her musicality and performance baility more.

I'd love something upbeat or maybe jazzy for Sasha. Game of Survival and Unstoppable are nice, but that's still in the "she's not musical but she is powerful" box. I always found Sasha to be quite musical, it's the performance side that doesn't work sometimes because of her programs. The lyrical and contemporary pieces don't always play to her strength because she doesn't have those lines, but that doesn't mean musicality isn't there. Lyrical/contemporary aren't the only art forms. Big Spender has always been her best program for me, and there were so many small musical accents that she responded to naturally. And she performed it well too because the music and choreography works with the way she moves. And the slower SP she had the season before, I think choreographed by the team she was at before Eteri, also suited her. Those programs were controversial because of the lyrics, but the styles were perfect for her and she can have programs in those genres with different lyrics.

I see so much untapped potential in Kamila in the contemporary and modern styles, but she seems to be put into the classical box because of her lines and extensions. There's so much experimenting that can be done with her for more complex choreography. But if she were given Swan Lake, it would be universally appealing and she'd score very well.

 

[FelineFairy]

I agree Kamila needs to work on her PE and INT, especially in her face, but I think she does emote through her body. For example, compared to Anna who I think emotes much more and committed to her program, Kamila basically got the same PCS even with a fall and a more nervous face so I don't the judges really care about facial expressions, unfortunately.

As for international PCS, we have to remember that she was scored as a junior. I believe her junior PCS is the world record. Before Kamila, Alena had the WR junior PCS, and Alina before her. And their first international seasons, they got top 5 PCS with the senior boost. Next season when Kamila is a senior, I can see her getting the highest PCS (even more than Anna in PE/INT) based on the current trend. I don't agree with it, but I expect it to happen.

I think when Kamila appeared on the international level with that masterpiece programme, I mean Girl on the Ball, her performance in that programme was generally perceived as her innate ability to perform. However, I think that in her case it's a bit different from Anna, whose artistic abilities are innate, Anna's movements and expressions are more natural. Kamila is still learning and doing very well what is planned by the coach and choreographer. Of course all skaters do that, but not all start feeling it so that the learned movements come naturally and needn't be controlled. Hence also the "face not emoting" many posters mentioned - she is simply concentrated on how to perform the planned movements at the planned moment. It doesn't diminish her talent, it is just different from Anna's. Kamila might develop with time to feel all that more deeply and get more freedom in her expression.

 

[FelineFairy]

Анна Щербакова рассказала, что помогла ей выступить так феноменально на чемпионате России

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www.olympicchannel.com

 

[Vilord]

Internationally i think Kamilla would benefit from improving her artistry in terms of facial expression but also listening more to the slow parts of her music. Ive allways found that she performs the more powerful (usually climax) parts of her programs verry well but feel a tad rushed in her slower parts.
We need to remember that we have so far only seen her in domestic scoring this season and rusfed is trying to push her as the olympic champion and the PCS she has been getting domestically is unlikely to be what she recives internatinally especially as a first year senior compared to Anna and Aliona who will be considered veterans (and therefore more PCS protected by many judges).
To be fair I dont think any of the top russians will recive the PCS or GOE internatinally as they have been getting at nationals etc but I think it will hit eteris juniors more harshly than the more established seniors.

Also you are allowed to look dispaointed for not winning when your competitors outscore you. As long as you are respectful about it which I thought both Sasha and Kamilla where.

 

[starlight97]

I made my original comment about not adding more tech to Kamila and instead work on her mental stability and expression under a personal assumption about that 3A:
- I believe Sasha will get it and then may land it right when it matters. But even then and with 4Lz and 4F in the Free I see her behind a clean Kamila cause all other elements of her skating are inferior, her GOE is lower and judges have made their tastes clear.
- Alena, even if she gets her three 3A back, will not get a quad. That's just my personal opinion. So even with 10s in interpretation, she can't compete with Anna and Kamila if they get a 3A
- Anna has long talked about doing the 3A but we have never seen an actual successful attempt (or any attempt at all?) and I simply doubt we will. But here I can easily be wrong and that would be hard for Kamila then. Because Anna is setting herself up in a very good position as far as judges perceiving her during this season.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

I have to disagree that her artistry is already fantastic. Her SS are good. Her extension is great. But, her performance skills and interpretation aren't. She usually looks like a scared child on the ice. (which is fine because she is a hugely talented scared child but it is something to work on) Domestically, improving her artistry won't help her much since the PCS they are giving her is already sky-high. But, it will help her internationally. I would stabilize the 3A and 3Lz first, and work on performance ability before adding a new quad.

Just came back from watching a fancam of practices/medal ceremony (yes I do stuff backwards sometimes) and I have to agree with you. Kamila's PE and IN shouldn't be so close to Anna's. Yes, she has long flexible arms and legs and moves them in a reasonably controlled manner, but the overall feel is like a rhythmic gymnast rather than a dancer or actor. The long-distance fancams highlight where Kamila falls short of Anna's audience projection and her deliberate use of a range of upper body dynamics to convey meaning. Making the two almost equivalent in these categories (PE/IN) when no such distinction exists - it's as though the Fed thought 'Oop, Anna's nearing 17, time to invest in a new candidate'. Anna's too nice to care, so I'll be annoyed in her stead.

The most glaring difference for me is in the use (or lack thereof) of head, neck and shoulders. Anna indeed has a balletic carriage (above the waist at least - in ballet it could be categorised as epaulement or port de bras) and consciously uses subtle tilts of the head and upper spine to full dramatic effect. Kamila doesn't - she moves from the arms and legs but her upper trapezius is kind of locked and her trunk doesn't do much besides arch backwards when required for technical elements. A bit like RG kids that sometimes drop into ballet classes where the teacher has a hard time convincing them to articulate their cambres or developpes, because they're used to just hitting the endpoint of their range of motion immediately without filling out the musical phrase with the movement.

Of course she might just have a naturally stiff neck and high shoulders (you can see it in podium pictures). But I agree, Kamila would be a better skater if she focused on improving PE/IN and stabilising her jump repertoire. However the way the judges are scoring her, it probably doesn't matter, sadly. If she keeps her jumps and adds another quad, she'll probably beat Sasha and Anna :/ With a poker face.

 

[Vilord]

I made my original comment about not adding more tech to Kamila and instead work on her mental stability and expression under a personal assumption about that 3A:
- I believe Sasha will get it and then may land it right when it matters. But even then and with 4Lz and 4F in the Free I see her behind a clean Kamila cause all other elements of her skating are inferior, her GOE is lower and judges have made their tastes clear.
- Alena, even if she gets her three 3A back, will not get a quad. That's just my personal opinion. So even with 10s in interpretation, she can't compete with Anna and Kamila if they get a 3A
- Anna has long talked about doing the 3A but we have never seen an actual successful attempt (or any attempt at all?) and I simply doubt we will. But here I can easily be wrong and that would be hard for Kamila then. Because Anna is setting herself up in a very good position as far as judges perceiving her during this season.

As per my previous post im unsure if the difference here will be as big internnationally as it is in russia. I do agree that she is better in all aspects apart from jumping compared to Sasha.
Agree about Aliona and Anna. I think Anna could negate the short program defecit if she where to perform 3 quads of F and Lz and get good GOE on them (,and not get called on any dubious Lz edges).

 

[Rus Skating World]

I made my original comment about not adding more tech to Kamila and instead work on her mental stability and expression under a personal assumption about that 3A:
- I believe Sasha will get it and then may land it right when it matters. But even then and with 4Lz and 4F in the Free I see her behind a clean Kamila cause all other elements of her skating are inferior, her GOE is lower and judges have made their tastes clear.
- Alena, even if she gets her three 3A back, will not get a quad. That's just my personal opinion. So even with 10s in interpretation, she can't compete with Anna and Kamila if they get a 3A
- Anna has long talked about doing the 3A but we have never seen an actual successful attempt (or any attempt at all?) and I simply doubt we will. But here I can easily be wrong and that would be hard for Kamila then. Because Anna is setting herself up in a very good position as far as judges perceiving her during this season.

Speaking about mental stability, I agree that Kamila (and her coaches) should work on that, but it's a field for improvement for Sasha as well. I started to think like that after Rostelecom, when after the first fall Sasha looked lost and ruined the rest of her program. Of course, if she was injured it also played its role, but I don't think it was the only reason. Probably convincing her to reduce the number of quads but to have clean performance can also contribute to the strategy of making her more confident, stable and less under pressure.

Coming back to Kamila, I think she has still a lot of work to do both technically (polishing her 3A even if not adding new quads, but who knows) and artistically. Yes, she has extremely high components locally but I believe neither she nor Eteri are tricked to believe that it will stay like that internationally. Also knowing that Eteri is a kind of person who is never 100% satisfied and who always sees a room for improvement makes me feel quite assured I would say.

 

[starlight97]

Anybody else who thinks Evgenia would have been a great match with Plushenko rather than Eteri again?
Eteri's camp is very focused on "these are the rules and structures we follow, everybody follows them, no matter if OG medalist or never been at nationals." That's a great system for people like Anna who are tidy, level headed, feel comfortable in a highly structured environment. And for little children, who need structures to be set for them cause they are not able to structure their own training or development yet.
While Plushenko's camp is more about special treatments, individual adaption of rules, open to adapt to skaters demands. Which suits Alena's personality better imo.

I see Evgenia and Plushenko to be very similar skaters personality wise. Enjoying attention and showing themselves, thriving more the more people are watching. More theatrical.
For example when she added an extra 3T once at nationals just to "show off", that's sth you would never see from, let's say, Alina. Cause that's a certain kind of personality.
I think they would have worked well together.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Anybody else who thinks Evgenia would have been a great match with Plushenko rather than Eteri again?

Oh Lord, the reactions to this post are gonna be fun.

I'm going to need a stronger rubber band.

In the meantime I'll take "How dare you insult Zhenya Med this way! Do you want to ruin her life?!" for 500, Alex.

 

[Autumn Leaves]

Oh Lord, the reactions to this post are gonna be fun.

I'm going to need a stronger rubber band.

In the meantime I'll take "How dare you insult Zhenya Med this way! Do you want to ruin her life?!" for 500, Alex.

This “preemptive” strategy of your is getting a bit tiresome. Sometimes you argue with posts or comments that you have seen on other boards or arguments that you yourself invented. I respect your passion about defending and protecting Plushchenko, but this doesn’t help a meaningful conversation. And he is not really a Russian lady after all.

 

[macy]

I just wonder, what cause is going to make Anna an underdog next year?
Three nats, neglected by media experts in all of them.

honestly i think RusFed should be pushing her the most out of anyone right now, even over Kamila. she is now a 3x Russian national champion (winning RusNats is basically winning a world championship if you think about it) and has been extremely reliable since becoming a senior. she is the only one who has come out on top so far through covid too. there is every reason for them to be behind Anna going into next season.