2021 U.S. Nationals: Senior Free Dance

[moonvine]

H/B were mesmerizing. I love the program because it is seamlessly choreographed to the music rather than blocks of elements put on top of music as a lot of programs are.
I wish they would judge what is skated on the ice rather than by reputation. Disappointed but not surprised.

And they choreographed most of it themselves!

 

[anonymoose_au]

For no reason that I can explain other than the judges especially in the US have a thing for CB's as shown tonight

Ha ha this actually makes me feel better, because sometimes I absolutely adore a skater/team and they get low marks or don't win and I start to wonder if I'm high or something. Especially step sequences...if I love a step sequence it almost always gets a Level 2. I'm like

At least in Kaitlin and Jean-Luc's case it appears to be some sort of judges thing.

I do still love Maddie and Evan, they did their best which is what they came for. The judges will decide indeed.

 

[auser]

No no, don't do that, karma can really be a ......

Best wishes to Skate Canada Challenge for Ice Dance Free Skates And US Men FS

 

[auser]

Ha ha this actually makes me feel better, because sometimes I absolutely adore a skater/team and they get low marks or don't win and I start to wonder if I'm high or something. Especially step sequences...if I love a step sequence it almost always gets a Level 2. I'm like

At least in Kaitlin and Jean-Luc's case it appears to be some sort of judges thing.

I do still love Maddie and Evan, they did their best which is what they came for. The judges will decide indeed.

I have always respected and enjoyed your view of skater's performances. Please don't let some judges' scores deter that.

 

[jenaj]

If Chock and Bates are benefiting from US favoritism, it should get sorted out at World’s, right? It will be interesting to see if H/B beat them at World’s.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

If Chock and Bates are benefiting from US favoritism, it should get sorted out at World’s, right? It will be interesting to see if H/B beat them at World’s.

If Worlds even happen.

 

[IceDancingQueen]

Gutted I couldn’t stay up to this watch this as it was on too late in my time zone. I’m so sad I missed what sounds like a mesmerizing performance from H/B. I could only watch C/B and H/D’s performances online. I didn’t think both teams were as sharp as they could have been. I absolutely loved the snake dance last year but I think the interpretation has lost something with the changes they made to a couple of their lifts. The lifts last year felt innovative whereas the changes this year feel a bit generic. I loved H/D’s FD at Skate America this year, but I was bit underwhelmed by their performance here, I think again because of the changes they have made since then. They deserved to win but I was left a bit meh. It’s too bad H/B are still getting lowballed by the judges, if their performance was as good as everyone is saying :-(

 

[Kitt]

My husband and I are huge H/B fans. He just gave his opinion to me on their scoring: They are overlooked because of Jean-Luc's height, no other reason. They are not statuesque. Kaitlin is gorgeous, their skating is gorgeous - that is the reason!

I have to admit - it is food for thought. Tall men are always given every advantage in life!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Doubtful, as there are plenty of US ice dance men who are on the shorter side that have been champs, some multiple times. J-l is only about an inch or so shorter than Ben Agosto and Charlie White for example.

My husband and I are huge H/B fans. He just gave his opinion to me on their scoring: They are overlooked because of Jean-Luc's height, no other reason. They are not statuesque. Kaitlin is gorgeous, their skating is gorgeous - that is the reason!

I have to admit - it is food for thought. Tall men are always given every advantage in life!

 

[Seven Sisters]

I think the USFSA always had a thing for C/B. When they first got together I remember they were presented, and clearly were being groomed, as the successors to D/W. They got a huge push out of it. Then they started to struggle and the USFSA had to look elsewhere but since they seem to have gotten their act together the USFSA is jumping back on the wagon.


edit: I remember there was a time when they were not popular online at all. First off due to the way they came together as a team and second due to the clear and obvious favoritism shown to them by the USFSA which many felt was undeserved and at the expense to other teams

I returned to this thread this morning and have to say, I do so agree with you and Ic3Rabbit on this, and I’ve never understood it either.
I’ve started thinking this morning about what US Dance might look like after Beijing, when I would expect both HD and CB to retire. I’m guessing HB would continue at least for a season, maybe the whole quad; but I think the immediate future will be Carreira/Ponomarenko—who I would expect to be USFS’ new favorites, given the irresistible backstory—and Green/Parsons, who looked REALLY sharp last night.
What say you, friends?

 

[Seven Sisters]

Doubtful, as there are plenty of US ice dance men who are on the shorter side that have been champs, some multiple times. J-l is only about an inch or so shorter than Ben Agosto and Charlie White for example.

I do think the lack of height differential—as opposed to lack of height per se—is a challenge for them, though. The look of the team would be just fine if Jean Luc had a very petite partner.

 

[Kitt]

I do think the lack of height differential—as opposed to lack of height per se—is a challenge for them, though. The look of the team would be just fine if Jean Luc had a very petite partner.

I wonder about this - since Madison Hubbell doesn't really seem much smaller than Zach Donahue.

 

[Seven Sisters]

I wonder about this - since Madison Hubbell doesn't really seem much smaller than Zach Donahue.

Hubbell is tall for a dancer, I’d guess 5’6”-5’7”—but I believe Zach is around 6’, so their ratio is fine. (and yes, we could check their official bios—but those never seem particularly accurate.)
The comparison I’d draw is to a team like Soucisse/Firus. Shane is short as guys go—I’ve seen photos of him standing next to Kaitlyn Weaver, he is no taller than she is—but since Carolanne is very, very petite, you don’t notice their height when they are on the ice.

 

[jenasher]

Thanks for the additional info. You're correct Hillary didn't train in Novi. She and her previous partner trained in Dallas with Logan Guiletti-Schmitt, Pierre Panayi, and Danil Barantsev. It looks like they were only together a year, but it lists other previous partners for her. O'Donnell trained with his previous partner in Colorado Springs, as you mentioned, with Patti Gottwein and Ben Agosto.

Hilary did pairs with several partners. She went to jr. nationals and to nationals twice in pairs. She decided to try ice dance in 2019. She partnered with Kyle Pearson from Canada in June 2019-January 2020 and they stayed in her home town of Dallas and worked with local coaches so she could go to her freshman year of college. She and Ryan partnered at the end of July and they train in Novi with Igor and his team.

 

[Weathergal]

Hilary did pairs with several partners. She went to jr. nationals and to nationals twice in pairs. She decided to try ice dance in 2019. She partnered with Kyle Pearson from Canada in June 2019-January 2020 and they stayed in her home town of Dallas and worked with local coaches so she could go to her freshman year of college. She and Ryan partnered at the end of July and they train in Novi with Igor and his team.

Thank you jenasher. It always amazes me how someone here knows the answer to just about any question people have!

tagging in @ice coverage since she was part of the discussion.

Thanks to both of you for the info. Look forward to seeing how this dance team progresses.

 

[ice coverage]

Hilary did pairs with several partners. She went to jr. nationals and to nationals twice in pairs. She decided to try ice dance in 2019. She partnered with Kyle Pearson from Canada in June 2019-January 2020 and they stayed in her home town of Dallas and worked with local coaches so she could go to her freshman year of college. She and Ryan partnered at the end of July and they train in Novi with Igor and his team.

Thank you for all the interesting bkgd on the multi-talented Hilary.

@jenasher, I hope that I surmise correctly that you are a family member who took the plunge of joining GS in order to help us get to know her better?
If so, please tell her that Ryan and she have made some new fans, who look forward to seeing more of them.

No doubt that you have been a great source of support (of all kinds) to Hilary for every step of the way throughout her career.
Much respect to you.

I hope that spectators can be allowed at 2022 Nats, and that it will be possible for you (and perhaps some of us GS members too) to attend and watch Hilary and Ryan compete in person.

---

... tagging in @ice coverage since she was part of the discussion. ...

Thank you for making sure to keep me in the loop.

 

[moonvine]

I returned to this thread this morning and have to say, I do so agree with you and Ic3Rabbit on this, and I’ve never understood it either.
I’ve started thinking this morning about what US Dance might look like after Beijing, when I would expect both HD and CB to retire. I’m guessing HB would continue at least for a season, maybe the whole quad; but I think the immediate future will be Carreira/Ponomarenko—who I would expect to be USFS’ new favorites, given the irresistible backstory—and Green/Parsons, who looked REALLY sharp last night.
What say you, friends?

I say if H/B have to wait their turn for..how many years? C/P and G/P may also wait their turns. That being said I do like both teams.

 

[Yeslekyelnats]

Hubbell is tall for a dancer, I’d guess 5’6”-5’7”—but I believe Zach is around 6’, so their ratio is fine. (and yes, we could check their official bios—but those never seem particularly accurate.)
The comparison I’d draw is to a team like Soucisse/Firus. Shane is short as guys go—I’ve seen photos of him standing next to Kaitlyn Weaver, he is no taller than she is—but since Carolanne is very, very petite, you don’t notice their height when they are on the ice.

Hubble and donohue look very similar in size to me. Maybe more so than hawayak and baker. It may not be true but I notice it more when watching H/D.

 

[moonvine]

I do think the lack of height differential—as opposed to lack of height per se—is a challenge for them, though. The look of the team would be just fine if Jean Luc had a very petite partner.

I love it when SHE lifts HIM like a boss.

 

[skylark]

I say if H/B have to wait their turn for..how many years? C/P and G/P may also wait their turns. That being said I do like both teams.

Depending on how you count, H/D and C/B certainly waited their turn for many years. Between 10 and 13 years as seniors. Just for a bit of perspective ... how it was to follow Tanith and Ben and Meryl and Charlie, and then taking turns with each other and the Shibs. It's really nothing new with Kaitlyn and Jean-Luc.

Hubbell and Donohue came in 3rd at nationals in their first season together (Zach's 1st season as a senior) in 2011-12.

Chock and Bates came in 5th that same year, 2011-12, and 2nd the next year.

Evan Bates was already 4th Seniors in 2007-2008, albeit with his former partner Emily Samuelson. The next year, they were 2nd. Madison Chock was Jr. national champion in 2008-9 with Greg Zuerline. Madison and Kieffer Hubbell came in 4th in 2008-9.