2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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Why are you so pressed? People deserve to be scored for what they do. If a random Romanian skater does a better jump then it indeed deserves more GOE, very simple.

I am not sure that it's me who is pressed. When I miss several dyas here I have to skim through piles of garbage from some unhappy people. And the better Russian ladies are doing, the more unhappier these folks seem to become. Somehow when this sort of unhappinnes shows up in other national threads there is immediate "morale police" response like "who are you and what are you doing here with your unhappinness?"

 

[Shayuki]

Why are you so pressed? People deserve to be scored for what they do. If a random Romanian skater does a better jump then it indeed deserves more GOE, very simple.

Once upon a time, this thread was used to discuss the Russian ladies in a mostly positive manner. Now people like you who couldn't care less about Russian skaters come on here to complain about how the sport isn't like it was 20 years ago.

Also perhaps your personal assessment on GOE isn't the absolutely correct one.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

I am not sure that it's me who is pressed. When I miss several dyas here I have to skim through piles of garbage from some unhappy people. And the better Russian ladies are doing, the more unhappier these folks seem to become. Somehow when this sort of unhappinnes shows up in other national threads there is immediate "morale police" response like "who are you and what are you doing here with your unhappinness?"

I like Alyona a lot. And she is Russian.
There are Alyona Kostornaia, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, Veronika Zhilina, Polina Tsurskaya, Anastasiya Tarakanova, Elizaveta Berestovskaya, Maria Artemieva with much better technique than some...
It is the pre-rotation of some Russian ladies I dislike.

 

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You know what they say - bad technique is always bad technique.
Sotnikova is 4th time Russian national champion and Olympic champion. And so what?!?
How many fans she has outside Russia?

Sorry for my being personal but I am sure you that know about your reputation in this particular thread. I am not inclined to start discussion with you. I would just say one thing. I would be surprised if any previous Olympic champion in figure skating had any material fan base outside their countries. And in their countries as well. Yuna may be an exception because first of all she is such a big star in Korea who never had that level of skaters before. Bobby Fisher used to be a superstar in the USA because he "beat the Soviets in their game" - a quote from "Queens gambit". I would think that outside Korea Yuna would be forgotten by now if it were not for a significant group of people who are very unhappy about the recent success of young Russian....now one can place any of labels that are sticked to those young Russian skaters. Yuna's argument as "the real skater" vs. Russian youngsters, corrupt judging, etc. are the instruments of manifestation of their unhappinness.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Once upon a time, this thread was used to discuss the Russian ladies in a mostly positive manner. Now people like you who couldn't care less about Russian skaters

That's your own negative, incorrect assumption.

And it's your own problem if you don't understand skating technique and don't care about how it should be evaluated in the sport.

 

[Jontor]

Why are you so pressed? People deserve to be scored for what they do. If a random Romanian skater does a better jump then it indeed deserves more GOE, very simple.

It's not about pressure. It seems to me it is more about a taste discussion disguised under technical circumstances.

I usually appreciate your comments, and I usually disagree with them as I find them dated. But I appreciate them anyway. You have great knowledge of figure skating, but sometimes it tips over to subjectivity instead of objectivity.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

A bit off-topic, but this has been bugging me for so long. I feel like judges really ought to separate scores for the several categories. I used Anna as an example of someone who deserves 9s in PE and IN, but maybe not in SS, but I think an even better example would be Liza Berestovskaya. She is one of the most expressive and delightful skaters I've ever seen, and honestly, I probably would give her 9s (considering she's 12 maybe high 8s) in PE. But her SS are really lacking, especially in terms of speed and flow, and so I'd probably give her a 7.00 in that category. It's totally okay to have a 9.00 in PE and 7.00 SS, and I feel like there are skaters out there who should have super high marks for some categories, but lower for others. Another good example might be Maria Sotskova circa 2016-17. I'd give her good SS grades - maybe around 8.5 - 8.75, because she has deep edges, good flow and smooth skating, but low TR scores because her FS was lacking a bit in transitions, but judges insist upon giving her TR just slightly below SS, therefore making it that her TR was too high, and yet SS too low.

 

[Amei]

No, I'm pretty sure it was lackluster because they made changes to the choreography.
This news about Rozanov being "the second" choreographer means they're planning to do the same thing to this new program too.

So Plushenko is mimicking his former coach - pay a lot of money to a choreographer for a program then have his in-house choreographer butcher it.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Sorry for my being personal but I am sure you that know about your reputation in this particular thread. I am not inclined to start discussion with you. I would just say one thing. I would be surprised if any previous Olympic champion in figure skating had any material fan base outside their countries. And in their countries as well. Yuna may be an exception because first of all she is such a big star in Korea who never had that level of skaters before. Bobby Fisher used to be a superstar in the USA because he "beat the Soviets in their game" - a quote from "Queens gambit". I would think that outside Korea Yuna would be forgotten by now if it were not for a significant group of people who are very unhappy about the recent success of young Russian....now one can place any of labels that are sticked to those young Russian skaters. Yuna's argument as "the real skater" vs. Russian youngsters, corrupt judging, etc. are the instruments of manifestation of their unhappinness.

Why should I be unhappy that young Russian ladies are winning?
And why I am happy about Yuna? Why I am happy about Yuzuru?
Does someone think that I like them because they are from Korea and Japan? Then why I dislike Shoma?
Why I praise Mikhail Kolyada about his technique? Why do I praise Boyang?
I do not care which nationality is winning as long as it is fair and there is good technique involved. (Not poor technique.)

 

[Magill]

Sorry for my being personal but I am sure you that know about your reputation in this particular thread. I am not inclined to start discussion with you. I would just say one thing. I would be surprised if any previous Olympic champion in figure skating had any material fan base outside their countries. And in their countries as well. Yuna may be an exception because first of all she is such a big star in Korea who never had that level of skaters before. Bobby Fisher used to be a superstar in the USA because he "beat the Soviets in their game" - a quote from "Queens gambit". I would think that outside Korea Yuna would be forgotten by now if it were not for a significant group of people who are very unhappy about the recent success of young Russian....now one can place any of labels that are sticked to those young Russian skaters. Yuna's argument as "the real skater" vs. Russian youngsters, corrupt judging, etc. are the instruments of manifestation of their unhappinness.

Yulia.
Yulia Lipnitskaya is such an Olympic champion, remembered fondly and well loved, although her career was short and dramatic. Still, everyone who knows anything about FS is thrilled with even a memory of the litttle girl in the red coat....

 

[alexocfp]

It's not about pressure. It seems to me it is more about a taste discussion disguised under technical circumstances.

I was thinking this reading through the thread.

A judge can justify any score, high or low, over score, or under score, and explain it away via technical mumble jumble.

Judges are people with the same biases as those of us that know nothing.

That is why scores you don’t agree with doesn‘t necessarily mean the fix is in.

I have zero issues with the final 3 placings at Nationals.

Yes, we can always look for ways to improve scoring, but at the end of the day, it’s all subjective anyway.

 

[Amei]

A bit off-topic, but this has been bugging me for so long. I feel like judges really ought to separate scores for the several categories. I used Anna as an example of someone who deserves 9s in PE and IN, but maybe not in SS, but I think an even better example would be Liza Berestovskaya. She is one of the most expressive and delightful skaters I've ever seen, and honestly, I probably would give her 9s (considering she's 12 maybe high 8s) in PE. But her SS are really lacking, especially in terms of speed and flow, and so I'd probably give her a 7.00 in that category. It's totally okay to have a 9.00 in PE and 7.00 SS, and I feel like there are skaters out there who should have super high marks for some categories, but lower for others. Another good example might be Maria Sotskova circa 2016-17. I'd give her good SS grades - maybe around 8.5 - 8.75, because she has deep edges, good flow and smooth skating, but low TR scores because her FS was lacking a bit in transitions, but judges insist upon giving her TR just slightly below SS, therefore making it that her TR was too high, and yet SS too low.

I feel like we rarely see PCS scores that vary in any type of significance between the different categories, like if you have great skating skills you can't possibly be only an average performer or vice versa if you are a phenomenal performer you can't possibly have average skating skills. I wish that they would separate PCS to have skating skills and maybe transitions in 1 category and another category for performance/composition/interpretation.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

So Plushenko is mimicking his former coach - pay a lot of money to a choreographer for a program then have his in-house choreographer butcher it.

I am sure Rozanov will do great job.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Aliona new program seems to me yet another example of double standards, ever since she skated the original FS people have been clamouring for her to change it and calling it a rare Shae-Lynn fail.

Now she changes it and mentions Sergei R will be assisting with it and suddenly Aliona's team is a bunch of butchers destroying Shae-Lynn's perfect choreo.

So did you want Aliona to change her choreo or not? Or was it just an excuse to bash her new coaching team?

Oh yeah and don't forget the off-hand insult aimed at Mishin. This event really has it all.

 

[Skatesocs]

So your point is that they would win anyway so if judges give +5 or +4 on pre-rotated jumps it doesn’t really matter?

Well calculated
Maybe it would be better to set me on ignore since you've reached this conclusion?

PS: I wish the clap animation clapped a bit more slowly!

 

[Skatesocs]

And you don't understand skating technique and don't care about how it should be evaluated in the sport.

Maybe. But certain people who are vocal about it don't either. There's a point where some who just care about proper evaluation (like proper measurement of rotation) are lumped into "3.5 turns = 3A", "a 3T has 3 turns", "full blade 4T", and "more than half PR means downgrade". And it causes confusion on this thread. Like the person who keeps liking your posts

I am sure most would agree a bad jump deserves low GOE. Some on either side would take an extreme view, but most others would agree.

 

[Jontor]

Aliona new program seems to me yet another example of double standards, ever since she skated the original FS people have been clamouring for her to change it and calling it a rare Shae-Lynn fail.

Now she changes it and mentions Sergei R will be assisting with it and suddenly Aliona's team is a bunch of butchers destroying Shae-Lynn's perfect choreo.

So did you want Aliona to change her choreo or not? Or was it just an excuse to bash her new coaching team?

Oh yeah and don't forget the off-hand insult aimed at Mishin. This event really has it all.

@anonymoose_au You are fuming again...can anyone get some water!

 

[Skatesocs]

Aliona new program seems to me yet another example of double standards, ever since she skated the original FS people have been clamouring for her to change it and calling it a rare Shae-Lynn fail.

There was an entire thread with people saying Bourne wasn't good for multiple skaters this season...

It was a bad program. It's not anyone else's problem if some can view any criticism only through one lens.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I usually appreciate your comments, and I usually disagree with them as I find them dated. But I appreciate them anyway. You have great knowledge of figure skating, but sometimes it tips over to subjectivity instead of objectivity.

Everyone has some degree of "subjectivity" in their opinion, but it should be based on as much objective knowledge and consideration as possible. It is not "dated" to want important aspects about skating to be properly assessed in the scores. It's educated.

The way some people talk, they seem to think everything about skating can be known from looking at a protocol sheet, or that the recent trends in skating are inherently what must be best. People hold up the scoring system as if its the bible, when it's nothing more than a very fallible constructed mechanism for trying to introduce more concrete evaluation into the judging of figure skating, following the 2002 scandal. As with all instances of trying to take superficial things on paper as inherently correct and unmovable, it leads to a whole lot of red-tape and other sorts of bad decisions or bad practices taking place.

Another similarity I see in a lot of viewpoints is like comparing typical new-age digital cinematography to film. Most modern viewers just accept the kind of visuals that are now more commonly seen in TV/Movies, when digital frequently removes a lot of possible beauty and nuance from the kind of images that can be created. Or comparing computer animation to hand-drawn. Or comparing the depth of discussion generally found on twitter, to what can be found in an in-person or forum conversation.

There's a point where some who just care about proper evaluation (like proper measurement of rotation) are lumped into "3.5 turns = 3A", "a 3T has 3 turns", "full blade 4T", and "more than half PR means downgrade". And it causes confusion on this thread.

True, that doesn't help. Although many fans immediately get very defensive about any kind of criticism, and try to say it is all wrong, which detracts from the discussion the most.

 

[Skatesocs]

Although many fans immediately get very defensive about any kind of criticism, and try to say it is all wrong, which detracts from the discussion the most.

Fans do that. But I expect fans to do that. So I can ignore fans when they do that