2021 Worlds are still on
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I wouldn't say it's more complicated. I think people are reacting more to how many athletes got COVID in the sport - and it's a much smaller community of fans usually for skating than other sports. And, to be fair, COVID is scary.
I said all the way back in June that I don't want virtual events. I do think a bubble is a good preventive measure. I just hope the protocols are strictly enforced.
But one thing I'll add is that I don't think people participating in competitions is brave, and I also don't think people withdrawing from competitions is brave. It's just a sport, and you play the hand you're dealt with at any time. If there's no competition, then there's no competition. If there's a competition, then there's a competition that you don't have to attend. There's no "hope" attached to it either way for me, and there's no "morality" I attach to the skaters picking any of those things. There are many people being legitimately brave currently in the hospitals across the world.
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I have been attending rugby league matches since July; in October I sat with 13000 other fans to watch my team advance to finals. Boxing Day at the MCG saw 30,000 people. We have had crowds for months - our reward for taking it seriously.
The Australian Open going ahead is highly controversial. Many people don't want it and believe the government is taking an unneccessary risk - and the pouting and whining of the tennis players and their entourage is doing nothing to help. Djokovic's pathetic list of demands for luxuries not afforded to normal arrivals shows that some people don't take it seriously. I do not think they should have come.
It is still different. At this stage Sweden is not demanding a two-week hotel quarantine like we are - and the situation is still very much out of control there. It should not go ahead.
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- Jun 26, 2012
As Winnie_20 noted, there are currently a shortened World Cup Season (two world cups) and a World Speed Skating Long Track Distances WC taking place in The Netherlands. The whole thing started off with a Weekend of European All Round and Sprint competitions. Some (European) skaters have to stay in a bubble for at least 5 weeks, others less long but still within a bubble for a certain period of time, and it seems to be working. Strict Covid-19 protocols, lots of testing for the athletes, coaches and officials, as well as strict rules regarding the boards, and no spectators. I realise of course that Speed Skating is very different from Figure Skating but in this case there are a lot of similarities. True, the Japanese contingent has not turned up, but there are quite a few Canadians and skaters from the USA, as well as Australians, Russians and many European countries present. I am sure the ISU is taking developments in these competitions into account. I haven't seen or heard about any complaints from the skaters, they're all just happy to be able to compete, even if the bubble requirements are challenging. They feel it is worthwhile. There's even going to be WC Short track some time later, in a different bubble. In Short track individual athletes are much closer to each other than in Long track, so this is going to be tricky (though there was a Europeans in Poland which seems to have worked too). It is of course a pity that there aren't any Koreans or Japanese lined up there either. Challenge Cup preparations (which is a Figure Skating competition) are also still going forward - with another bubble in place. I'm hoping all these competitions are a good example of how things can be done safely in this part of the World.
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- Sep 15, 2017
Badminton has been and is currently having tournaments in Thailand. It's something like having 3 tournaments in a bubble.
Rules : a) 14 day quarantine after arrival before can start training
b) players & coaches had to be tested -ve before arrival, ie test before departure from home country.
c) frequent tests throughout the tournament
Before the tournament even started :
1) Indonesia Mens doubles player was announced to have tested +ve early Jan & have to withdraw
2) China withdrew their players due to Covid concerns in Thailand
3) Japan's Kento Momota tested + ve during a mandatory pre departure test.
Kento Momota is the forerunner for Men singles Olympic Gold.
Subsequently, Japan pulled out their whole team from all disciplines although they tested -ve.
4) Malaysia's chief coach tested +ve in the pre departure test & could not go.
The rest of the team tested -ve & were cleared by health authorities to.go ahead to Thailand.
During the tournament :
1) India's top woman singles player tested +ve and had to quarantine.
So did the whole team India under the orders of Thai health authorities.
Then, India players who tested -ve were allowed to compete but their coaches not allowed to accompany them. One of the woman singles player lost her match due to this, she was coachless throughout the match.
And thats just the main points. Mainly cos Thailand wanted to be stringent abt Covid measures but in the course of things a lot confusion & changes.
There were instances where we're not sure if so and so is playing, whether he/she have to quarantine. Where a walkover was given then cancelled, etc.
So, yeah, there is drama even when the measures are strict.
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- Feb 27, 2020
I agree with most of your post. Except I don't think it's as simple as "you don't have to attend" from the skaters' POV. If Worlds results are used for determining Olympic spots, then the skaters will be under a lot of pressure from their feds to go and win those spots. There was a statement from JSF a couple of days ago that not sending skaters isn't an option for the exact reason. Do you think it's easy to withdraw if the consequences would be not just on you but potentially on your team as well? It's not about bravery, but there are a lot of factors here that can't be dismissed.
The only way to give the skaters and the feds a choice is if the ISU changes the criteria for the spots and makes it clear there will be an extra opportunity to win them (and no, not just winning one spot at Nebelhorn).
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- Dec 8, 2020
I feel like Worlds could happen safely. If there is a very strict bubble system and multiple negative tests for each skater, there is a very slim margin where it could happen safely. It will take cooperation from every single federation and the ISU, but they could pull off a safe event. The ISU needs to clearly explain what precautions they are taking and let skaters know that they encourage the skaters to come as long as the skaters feel safe, but there won't be any negative repercussions by the ISU if certain federations or skaters don't attend. Cancelling it would seriously hurt the ISU and especially the smaller skating federations, so I hope Worlds do happen but in a safe manner.
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- Oct 25, 2012
Wow! I read a story a few days ago about somebody who had gone from Southern Ireland to Australia, I think it was in November or December, and they were saying that after their 14 days in a quarantine hotel had ended, they couldn't believe the level of freedom they and other people had. But, even after reading that, I wouldn't have expected stadia to have that many spectators at matches. You have really surprised me.
I agree with everything you have just said.
Just one question - is it the Victorian government, the national government, or both that gave the tournament the go-ahead? I'm just curious to know how things like this work. I know Melbourne Council is a major sponsor of most of the sporting events that happen in the city, but I would expect that the go-ahead for the Australian Open would have happened at a higher level (not least to avoid a conflict of interest). But, I'm just not sure how high.
Wow. So they aren't planning on having a 2 week hotel quarantine for Worlds?! That's crazy!
I know I'm more hardline on the pandemic than some, but if it was me, I would be insisting on that for EVERYBODY coming into a country, whether they are a sportsperson, a statesperson, or a regular person. And none of this "have a negative test after 5 or 10 days and get out" nonsense. The incubation period is around 14 days, so the quarantine period should be at least 14 days. Any shorter is defeating the purpose of quarantining.
The Isle Of Man closed it's borders at the start of the pandemic, and the few people that are allowed in have to serve a 14 day quarantine (not in secure hotels, though). And anybody that breaks their quarantine for any reason is jailed for a month. This policy has been successful in keeping the numbers of cases on the island relatively low. Nearly all the deaths that have occurred were the result of an outbreak in one nursing home. But, the reason I bring the IOM up is because a few weeks ago, there was a couple who showed symptoms and tested positive a few days after they finished their 14 days of quarantine. So, given that you don't start showing symtoms that quickly, they must have become infected before their quarantine, and the incubation must have taken longer than 14 days. Which further reinforces why the 10 day quarantine that is becoming a popular compromise is counter-productive.
And not having any quarantine is just asking for trouble. So, if Worlds does go ahead (which I hope it doesn't), the organisers were be incredibly stupid and irresponsible to not have everybody arrive early and serve a 14 day quarantine in a secure location beforehand.
But, are we expecting anything less than bad decisions? After all, it is the ISU we are talking about. And a Swedish government which stubbornly refused to impose lockdowns for nearly all of last year, and only did so as a last resort when things were way past being out of control.
CaroLiza_fan
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I would not go for the analysis of Swedish government actions. If we just look at current numbers 7 day moving average for daily cases has dropped 4 times and new deaths dropped 10 times since the December peak. So Sweden is doing OK, I would say no worse than UK or France where a lot of measures were taken....
Not letting Russia as a country participate in the worlds for quarantine reasons is as absurd an idea as not letting Russian figure skaters represent Russia in the Olympics for what Mutko and Rodchenkov did back in 2014. I think, Valieva was 7 years old back then.
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- Feb 10, 2018
Well, our handball team (and some others) didn't go because of too many positive players. That's problem of our team, not other teams, as you say it's a sport, just because one team/athlete is unlucky it shouldn't restrict the others who are healthy and can attend if fulfill the necessary measures. I don't share the idea of some people here not to organize events because seriously that can last for a very long time. And I'm also not a fan of "virtual competition" of this level, that canadian challenge event is a different thing than worlds.
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- Nov 28, 2020
The World Cup ski season has also been going on the past few months. All breakouts have been dealt with and they have been flexible in changing venues when needed.
Tennis and golf are definitely virus friendly sports because the competitors are never close to each other during normal times either.
Even football in Europe has gone on mostly incident free. But the top leagues test like crazy so that helps a ton.
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- Feb 27, 2012
With the way things have been going I doubt worlds will be possible but I am still hopeful. With a scaled back or cancelled Worlds maybe the ISU will come up with a few other ways to qualify for the Olympics. I wonder if the powers that be will devise a way to qualify more Russian and Japanese ladies than the 3 that we are likely to see? The US probably only deserves 1 ladies entry but maybe the US Men should also get more than 3 spots. I doubt they would ever make such a change but I can dream can't I?
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- Mar 21, 2018
There is a major breakout going on now from an ice hall after an ice hockey match in Halden, Norway. 21 of the cases are directly linked to the ice hall. They did have strict measures at the match to ensure it was safe. Unfortunately the virus has spread due to the match. It´s also linked to be the very contagious British mutation. They are discussing why there is such a major outbreak from the match, and they have a theory that ice halls are very contagious because the virus thrives in a very cold environment and dry air.
There hasn´t been any reported breakouts in Norway directly linked to the figure skating environment so far, but as I understand people who only visited and did not play, got infected, so it can´t be explained alone with that ice hockey is a contact sport.
This is the horror example of how irresponsible such events can be. I´m not sure how this will turn out, but they might start closing other ice halls to avoid similar cases. This is not the first outbreak from an ice hockey team in Norway. I also read the same did happen with Swedish ice hockey teams. So the Swedish government must already know about the risks.
When this being said, I think the bubble system has better chance to avoid the virus being transferred to the hall and that the major problem here is that someone entered the hall, without knowing they were contagious. If they keep isolating, testing and make sure the virus can´t find the way to the rinks, in theory there shouldn´t be a problem. But the British mutation seems to be a particular threat that makes this task difficult.
There hasn´t been any reported breakouts in Norway directly linked to the figure skating environment so far, but as I understand people who only visited and did not play, got infected, so it can´t be explained alone with that ice hockey is a contact sport.
This is the horror example of how irresponsible such events can be. I´m not sure how this will turn out, but they might start closing other ice halls to avoid similar cases. This is not the first outbreak from an ice hockey team in Norway. I also read the same did happen with Swedish ice hockey teams. So the Swedish government must already know about the risks.
When this being said, I think the bubble system has better chance to avoid the virus being transferred to the hall and that the major problem here is that someone entered the hall, without knowing they were contagious. If they keep isolating, testing and make sure the virus can´t find the way to the rinks, in theory there shouldn´t be a problem. But the British mutation seems to be a particular threat that makes this task difficult.
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- Jun 26, 2012
I agree with you Karne that the Russian skaters, coaches and officials haven't followed safety protocols (it was there for all to see) during the FS competitions. And they had the most sufferers from Covid-19 (please don't point out to me that this a correlation, not cause and effect. I know that) among skaters and coaches too. However, it seems they are sticking to the rules in Speed skating...different coaches, skaters and officials, I know, but if the ISU would demand the same compliance?
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- Sep 15, 2017
Thailand hosted badminton tournaments in Jan 2021.
It was a mandatory 14 day quarantine after arrival, must test negative upon arrival and after the 14 day quarantine.
Plus continuous tests throughout the tournament, every couple of days. The continuous tests caused headache cos India's woman singles player tested +ve in the middle of the tournament.
Then it was back & forth cos Thai authorities wanted the whole team India including players who tested -ve to quarantine again. India of course did not agree. It ended up with the player(tested -ve) being allowed to play but no coaches at courtside.
Though I dont think the organiser figure skating Worlds or Sweden authorities would be so strict. Neither would ISU. I'm wondering if they even having the "must test negative to compete" rule.
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- Jan 28, 2013
The American women are no worse than the third best group in the world. Saying that they probably only deserve one spot is an uninformed statement.
The number of figure skating participants at the Olympic Games is capped by the IOC, not the ISU. The Games quota is 30 men/ladies, 24 Ice Dance couples, 20 pairs. The maximum quota of 3 per country is longstanding, both at the Olympics and at ISU events.
A goal of both the IOC and the ISU is to expand interest and access to sport globally. Medals are important, but so is participation by non-traditional powers. That starts by providing opportunities to emerging nations. For the ISU, part of the equation is limiting post-world championship qualifications at Nebelhorn to only countries that did not earn a spot at the World Championship. Six men/women, 5 dance couples, and 4 pairs will qualify to the Olympics from countries that did not earn a place at the WC (provided the host country has already qualified - otherwise the number of Nebelhorn spots is reducted to permit host participation).
There is some good news for you, however. You can see all the Japanese and Russian women, as well as American men, by viewing those countries' National Championships which were conducted fairly recently.
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I certainly respect the decisions of the skaters who are of legal age and their parents if they arent, what ever legal age means.
Personally, even after I get my two jabs, I would not attend. My choice.
I also dont judge countries who want to give their skaters jabs before their own teachers or critical workers.
But what ever happens at worlds, people have to learn to live with their decisions and take responsibility. The South African strain is now in Canada and the US. Who ever is responsible for letting international air traffic for non critical pax needs to cowboy up to that, but they wont.
I do fear for the skaters.....I also fear for all those being infected around the world due to travel. No one I know wanted 430,000 Americans to die due to travel....but it happened. Every infection is a new chance for mutation...how lucky do you feel?
Personally, even after I get my two jabs, I would not attend. My choice.
I also dont judge countries who want to give their skaters jabs before their own teachers or critical workers.
But what ever happens at worlds, people have to learn to live with their decisions and take responsibility. The South African strain is now in Canada and the US. Who ever is responsible for letting international air traffic for non critical pax needs to cowboy up to that, but they wont.
I do fear for the skaters.....I also fear for all those being infected around the world due to travel. No one I know wanted 430,000 Americans to die due to travel....but it happened. Every infection is a new chance for mutation...how lucky do you feel?
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- Feb 27, 2012
For 2022 OWG, the quotas are:
- 30 men
- 30 ladies
- 23 dance couples
- 19 pairs
- 30 ladies
- 23 dance couples
- 19 pairs
At least for Team USA skaters: On Jan 29, Phil Hersh tweeted that per USFS spokesperson, "the decision to go or opt out would be up to each individual skater or pairs/dance team."
BTW, also on Jan 29, a Hersh tweet re Worlds tech minimums said: "I am told the ISU will address that issue in a communication to be published “shortly.” (That could mean Monday, given the upcoming weekend.)"
Although an ISU Communication about tech minimums was not published on Monday, the word "shortly" from ISU maybe(?) could mean that a decision on what to do about minimums has been made, and now it is a matter of putting the decision in writing and publishing the communication?
For 2021 Worlds, only one coach per pair team or ice dance couple is the new rule as of Dec 15, 2020 -- superseding the Announcement for 2021 Worlds, which had said only one coach per skater.
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- Jan 20, 2019
This.
The thing is, if we wait until it's actually 100% "safe" to hold big international figure skating events like Worlds or the Olympics, as in, until a large percentage of the population in most countries has gotten vaccinated and things are more or less back to "normal", we would probably have to wait 1-2 years or more to be able to have a Worlds without travel restrictions or testing and bubbles.
I definitely think Worlds should happen, but I also agree with the opinion that there shouldn't be pressure to attend if a skater or team can't/doesn't want to and there should be other opportunities to qualify for Olympic spots later in the year.
I'm thinking of cases like Hanyu's, who maybe wouldn't feel comfortable attending for his own health concerns and others, like the Canadians, that also would probably rather not send skaters to Worlds.
If there have to be strict safety protocols, only local audience or even no audience at all, so be it, but cancelling Worlds again would be really really sad.
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