2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[sclloyd]

I wonder if the choice to make Bolero her Olympic FS may have to do with some layout reworks? As was pointed out there’s no climax— but if he’s recalling Don Quixote, maybe they’re going to try to push the quads into the second half? IMO the quads make no sense as the first jumps, and it may significantly improve the program to push the most difficult jumps to the end. Of course, that is if Kamila can achieve a clean program that requires that strength and conditioning.

 

[Jontor]

I'd rather Valieva kept her SP, I guess, but tbh she deserves better music for it. And the LP definitely needs to change in my view. Wonder how she'd do with a different Ravel, or a Debussy.

Yes!! Debussy would be it!! I think Kamila might be a Debussy girl? ...if only she got the chance...

 

[anonymoose_au]

I love the Bolero music, what kills Kamila's program for me is the version they use, is it a famous version? Because to me it sounds like that muzak you hear in elevators or when on hold.

T/M's version of the music sounds much better to me, but music sense is rather suspect! I'm sure it's a different version though.

 

[Mathman]

I love the Bolero music, what kills Kamila's program for me is the version they use, is it a famous version? Because to me it sounds like that muzak you hear in elevators or when on hold.

T/M's version of the music sounds much better to me, but music sense is rather suspect! I'm sure it's a different version though.

I think the choreographers make their own versions, yes? The whole piece has to be cut down to 4 minutes somehow or other.

 

[Scott512]

Bolero is a snooze. I never understand why anyone would want to skate to it. The music is so repetitive. Though I kinda admit it suits Kamila and her lack of interpretation skating. I actually enjoyed her robotic bolero at Rus Nats.

Maybe your explanation as to why they are keeping this program for Kamola is why they are keeping this program for her. I would imagine she would be able to do this free skate even better next season than this season. Next season this girl will be 15 and she will know she belongs with Ana and sasha and the very top of ladies figure skating.

 

[Greengemmonster]

I'm perfectly fine with Bolero being Kamila's Olympic program. She was marvelous at Nationals.

I love the music cut and her crazy spinning at the end.

ADORE the lutz (I think it was a single lutz) that was followed by this dipping circular swirl transition thingy! Haha sorry my descriptions are as clear as mud

I do think they should try a few more costumes to see if they can come up with a better one.

 

[Scott512]

You wrote "death of Russian Ladies" instead of "depth of Russian Ladies" lol

Yep.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I think the choreographers make their own versions, yes? The whole piece has to be cut down to 4 minutes somehow or other.

I mean the actual music itself like...the track they used to cut it down. Kamila's sounds less opera more..."Your call is important to us, please stay on the line" It's sort of tinny to my ear (I'm not sure if that's a word that's well known here's the definition: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/amp/english/tinny) and so I don't enjoy it. The other Boleros I've heard seem to have fuller music.

It's by no means a Kamila-only thing there's other I'm sure there was another skater with a similar version and I was like "Ugh no."

 

[Scott512]

It doesn't work like that anymore Scott. The new +5 GOE system supports clean skates. Samodelkina didn't just have one mistake. It was a bit shaky here and there and she lost it really in the short anyway where she was overscored and shouldn't have gotten the points she got for the messed up combo. And Muravieva, although without ultra c elements, was super clean with very high technical content.

I feel for Samodelkina though. 4th - again!!!

I think this shows perfectly that quads are overrated. People seem to think that if you have a quad you'll win. That is not the case. Trusova has been proof of that for a long time now. Note though that Trusova scored her best ever score at RusNats with a clean program and only 2 quads.

Good point and I think many people are coming to the realization that quads are not the end all. Especially if you don't hit them. Of course if samo hit her quads and everything else she wins. But it's obviously very hard to do that.

 

[Jontor]

Yet another simplistic and incorrect take.

Valieva's Bolero program is hardly avant-garde. The spins and footwork and transitions are all the same things she does to begin with, and the overall expression and attempt to move her body is not doing things that are highly unusual. She starts the program by just letting the music run and then contorting her arms for a couple seconds, not in time with the music, and without moving her actual body. Her very first arm movement is too soft actually and doesn't make sense with the next movements she does. This doesn't show a full engagement into a theme or an understanding of the music. All it shows is a superficial applied idea. Just putting a brief "showy" movement on top of the music. Not moving TO the music.

Throughout the program it's much of the same thing. Even after the very first movements there's already another faulty instance that can be seen, she does a rocky turning-3 and then randomly juts her arms forward into a position that isn't held and doesn't make sense with the next arm movement she does. It's just this rushed and uncompleted kind of movement that's meant to say "look, I'm moving, somehow, so give me points." This is the problem with so many current programs. It's just constant movement without refinement, without sustainment, without real purpose.

There's far more possibility for even just "moving like a snake" in a figure skating program, regardless of it being in time with the music or not. The concept of Valieva's program is not complete, it doesn't maintain the idea throughout, doesn't try to push boundaries.

'Yet another simplistic and incorrect take.'

You forgot to add "in my humble opinion".

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

These have been great junior nats, but they also made me aware how exceptional Sasha/Anna/Aliona trio has been.

I kinda feel sorry for all present Russian juniors and novices as like Ted said in commentary - Trusova, Shcherbakova and Kostornaia set the bar so high for them. Even if some of them can reach it technically and physically, it's still very, very hard to attain magnificient trio's psychological toughness letting them shine in the greatest moments.

To be fair, the three girls who were expected to make the podium (Akatieva, Samodelkina, Zhilina) all didn't have a great competition. Obviously they all were amazing and the quads which were done were done very well, but Akatieva wasn't performing as much as she could in either segment, Samodelkina tripped a bit in her step sequence (such a shame because I love that step sequence), and Zhilina just wasn't having a great competition. At their best, I honestly think they can challenge the trio. And keep in mind that they are younger, especially Akatieva and Zhilina who aren't even internationally junior eligible. To be completely fair, Sasha/Anna/Aliona weren't that exciting as 12 year olds (they were really great, but not as exciting as the potential of these three quad-wise or full-package wise).

And actually, Sasha and Anna's SS are noticeably weaker than the average. Sasha's spins are very average. Anna's combo jumps are a bit muscled. Alyona has a weak I-spin and a leg wrap. Samodelkina, Akatieva and Zhilina on a good day are above average in SS, have pretty good flow in their combo jumps, and have good flexibility. Obviously they have other faults but in certain areas they are honestly more "full-package" or have more full-package potential than the 3A at this age.

 

[Dawn825]

I'm not sure when Maia K's birthday is, but if she really can do those quads then Sasha is even bigger trouble with regards to next season.

I wouldn't worry about that yet. As far as I know she hasn't landed one in competition yet. So the fact that they're having her try 2 is dumb af and just trying to make her look more threatening than she is. Imo.

It's a repetition of Tarasova/Morosov for me. Skater that could fight for the Gold but will be hindered hugely by a program that showcases her weaknesses and ignores her strengths.

I wish but I disagree. I think she's going to get reputation/Eteri PCS through the roof no matter how horrible we think the program is. Every time she does a spin the audience will cheer and if she skates clean, they'll lose their minds. The music will build excitement on it's own, she'll build excitement on her own, and I predict the two will meet in the rink for a major Olympic moment.
I think part of the trick of Kamila's Bolero is how it compares to Anna's FS. Anna may be emotional and all that but her choreography is soooo generic, I can't think of a single move she does that is a new idea, fits a theme, hits a musical highlight, is creative in any way. Bolero, while completely off the music and often times ugly, is different. The choreography looks someone had an idea, whether you like the idea or not. It's memorable and leaves an impression, which can be appreciated in a sea of utterly forgettable "nice skating to nice music".

Apparently Sasha is still having problems with her injury

This is pretty concerning, it probably needs significant rest and she isn't going to get that for another 2 months

 

[Jontor]

This is pretty concerning, it probably needs significant rest and she isn't going to get that for another 2 months

I just hope that her coaching team will go for the same strategy at RC Final as in RusNats. Two quads and clean will give her the ticket to Worlds.

 

[readernick]

To be fair, the three girls who were expected to make the podium (Akatieva, Samodelkina, Zhilina) all didn't have a great competition. Obviously they all were amazing and the quads which were done were done very well, but Akatieva wasn't performing as much as she could in either segment, Samodelkina tripped a bit in her step sequence (such a shame because I love that step sequence), and Zhilina just wasn't having a great competition. At their best, I honestly think they can challenge the trio. And keep in mind that they are younger, especially Akatieva and Zhilina who aren't even internationally junior eligible. To be completely fair, Sasha/Anna/Aliona weren't that exciting as 12 year olds (they were really great, but not as exciting as the potential of these three quad-wise or full-package wise).

And actually, Sasha and Anna's SS are noticeably weaker than the average. Sasha's spins are very average. Anna's combo jumps are a bit muscled. Alyona has a weak I-spin and a leg wrap. Samodelkina, Akatieva and Zhilina on a good day are above average in SS, have pretty good flow in their combo jumps, and have good flexibility. Obviously they have other faults but in certain areas they are honestly more "full-package" or have more full-package potential than the 3A at this age.

Yes, I think people often have faulty memories of the past. We imagine things in the past were better than that are now. Sasha, Anna, and Aliona may have been better at controlling their nerves in competition, but I actually far prefer this group of ladies to newly junior Anna and Sasha who I found really lacking in some areas ( SS for both, jumps for Anna and spins/ performance for Sasha. )

These juniors have SS that are so much better. I fell in love with Aliona's skating the first time I saw her, but I had a similar to reaction to Akatieva's. And, Akatieva has a similar height and good posture to her jumps, but faster rotation speed. ( They both have iffy lutz edges) Her performance here wasn't great, but she was nervous. It is natural.

Zhilina is probably a better jumper than Sasha in terms of height and technique. ( I think she will rival Ito as the best female jumper of all time if she learns to control her nerves). Her SS and spins are better, too. Her competitive nature does not appear to be as strong and she completely ignores her music, but she has time work on this.

Sofia S.'s skating isn't really my cup of tea ( the posture bothers me), but she is definitely a better all around skater than Sasha/ Anna at her age and her technical arsenal is more impressive than Aliona's ever was.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I just hope that her coaching team will go for the same strategy at RC Final as in RusNats. Two quads and clean will give her the ticket to Worlds.

I guess so, but all bets are off next season, there'll be only one Olympic spot (Anna and Kamila plus 1 more) with a question mark and heaps of girls going for it.

Sadly for Sasha if Aliona gets her 3A back, as I'm sure she will, Sasha will once again need to up her tech to come out on top.

As someone who really enjoys Sasha style - I love her step sequences! - this saddens me, but she has a reputation as a one-note jumping machine, her SP this season shows the judges don't take her attempts to be more artistic seriously. Basically, it's "Get back in your box, Sasha, you're no artist, get a clean 3A, 2 extra quads and then we'll take you seriously again."

 

[Scott512]

I mean the actual music itself like...the track they used to cut it down. Kamila's sounds less opera more..."Your call is important to us, please stay on the line" It's sort of tinny to my ear (I'm not sure if that's a word that's well known here's the definition: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/amp/english/tinny) and so I don't enjoy it. The other Boleros I've heard seem to have fuller music.

It's by no means a Kamila-only thing there's other I'm sure there was another skater with a similar version and I was like "Ugh no."

They may tweak Balero for next year for her and she may look different skating it perhaps an inch or so taller 5 pounds heavier. it may look different
And it will be a better bolero. And for those of us here who don't necessarily like this music for her though old fuddy duddy is doing the judging are not as harsh on bolero

 

[Jontor]

I guess so, but all bets are off next season, there'll be only one Olympic spot (Anna and Kamila plus 1 more) with a question mark and heaps of girls going for it.

Sadly for Sasha if Aliona gets her 3A back, as I'm sure she will, Sasha will once again need to up her tech to come out on top.

As someone who really enjoys Sasha style - I love her step sequences! - this saddens me, but she has a reputation as a one-note jumping machine, her SP this season shows the judges don't take her attempts to be more artistic seriously. Basically, it's "Get back in your box, Sasha, you're no artist, get a clean 3A, 2 extra quads and then we'll take you seriously again."

Yes, the bets are off for next season so anything can happen. Not even Anna and Kamila are safe.

I love Sasha too, and I want her to be at the Olympics. And I don't think that the judges have dismissed her or anything, it's just that she is a powerful tech skater, that's the image she has, but she needs to prove that to the judges with CLEAN skates. (I'm pretty sure that if she can repeat her wonderful skate from RusNats at RC Final, the judges will believe in her).

I don't think Sasha's biggest competition is only Kostornaia, I would also look out for Usacheva (and even Khromykh) for that last Olympic spot. It will be tough for sure, we know that.

But, anything can happen in a year, I just hope that no one gets injured and can't go because of that. I hope for a fair GP season and a decisive RusNats next year that will pick the three most deserving.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Not even Anna and Kamila are safe.

I think it's incredibly unlikely anything will jeopardize their positions, they'd have to suddenly lose all their jumps!

(I'm pretty sure that if she can repeat her wonderful skate from RusNats at RC Final, the judges will believe in her).

But see that's a problem if Sasha skated the same as she did then and suddenly gets 10 or more points (allowing her to challenge a clean Kamila) then that proves the scoring system is completely bogus. Sasha's lovely skates at Nats should be worth what they were worth. How can they score higher without noticible improvement or more difficult content? To me that's like if in a running race or swimming event they suddenly decided a minute wasn't 60 seconds this time it's now 70 seconds. You can't just change things like that)

I still don't understand when consistency became an acceptable way to get higher scores? I clearly recall a time where people said consistency was pretty much a cheat and just because a skater always landed this or that jump didn't mean they were any good at said jump or had good skating skills at all.

 

[brakes]

And actually, Sasha and Anna's SS are noticeably weaker than the average.

Could you please point out some present female skater you consider having average skating skills, so I may fully understand your standpoint?

 

[Dawn825]

I think it's incredibly unlikely anything will jeopardize their positions, they'd have to suddenly lose all their jumps!

It may be unlikely, but injuries, growth spurts, and mental blocks can happen to anyone.
I hear your point about consistency, but we all know PCS and GoE are given by judges when they want to to who they want. Consistency makes judges want to give it to you. It's not the way it should work, but it's the way it does. Lots of people agree that reputation and favoritism in judging are big problems.