2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Skatesocs]

It would be a Russian TV show. And as Medvedeva said in that interview, Russians like it when they cheer for Team Russia instead of against their own. So I would assume the producers will do it so there's a Team Russia for their audiences, and see if they can beat the best from the world.

I personally don't want it to become an official, ISU thing. Some things can just be for fun and TV ratings (and money for the skaters, I guess). If skaters are afraid of inflation or losing, they can just not attend.

 

[nussnacker]

Can you imagine Natan/Yuzu crushing Russian men, Sui/Han dominating pairs, Papadakis/Cizeron the dancers and then Russian girls stepping on the ice to this...




I WILL LIVE ANOTHER YEAR FOR THIS!

I think ID, Pairs and Men will do enough to keep the gap minimal, if not win in their respective disciplines.
Russia has strong athletes in every discipline.

 

[Lzbee]

Oh no no no no. I hate the idea of Team Russia vs Team World. It's a competition with over-the-top non-sensical scoring which is fine because it's for fun. But when there are foreign athletes involved, I do not want them to be in a situation where they may have to face a hostile Russian audience because I'll bet you the world there will be people who take it too far.

I would much prefer a seeded draw of the top athletes, it would be way more interesting anyway.

 

[Shayuki]

The russians really are setting the example (to the ISU and other federations) on how to popularize the sport basically by giving fans what they want and making it as accesible to watch as possible.

Who knew that making games easy for everyone to watch might be more beneficial for ratings than paywalling everything and making it so that only hardcore fans will even find the stream?

I bet they make far more money off ads than paywallers make off direct payments.

 

[[email protected]]

That is a political view only in Russia. For Western countries, the real competitor is China, not Russia which has a GPD the same size as the US state of Texas

However, in figure skating Russia's influence is much stronger. I am personally for striving for unity, rather than further exculating tensions. I think teams made up of skaters from many different countries would be a lot more fun. Like the top ten highest scoring singles, pairs, and dance couples from the last year randomly assigned to four teams. It would be a lot of fun and lack the normal nationalistic motivations which I find distract from the beauty of the sport.

GPD? There are 2 ways to assess the size of economy: nominal and PPP based. The second one refers to different price levels. My Russian friend who moved to California said that his visit to a general practitioner with the following x-ray and basic antibiotics cost him almost 3 thousand dollars. It would be less than 100 dollars in Russia. PPP based GDP of Russia is the sixth in the world, higher than that of Great Britain and surely much higher than Texas.

 

[dante]

For Western countries, the real competitor is China, not Russia which has a GPD the same size as the US state of Texas

I'm talking about politicians, not about economically competent people.

Anyway, I don't think there will be more problem than in any other country-vs-world competition, as long as everyone is OK with a possible defeat on the home ice.

 

[readernick]

GPD? There are 2 ways to assess the size of economy: nominal and PPP based. The second one refers to different price levels. My Russian friend who moved to California said that his visit to a general practitioner with the following x-ray and basic antibiotics cost him almost 3 thousand dollars. It would be less than 100 dollars in Russia. PPP based GDP of Russia is the sixth in the world, higher than that of Great Britain and surely much higher than Texas.

Healthcare cost are tragic in America, but in terms of economic importance in the World GPD is what matters. ( Also Russia is way further down the PPP list at #50 vs. The GDP list) That determines who the true competitors are, and Russia is not really one for the "West" economically. So, I think very few people in the West see some kind of Russia vs The West battle. Some politicians particularly in Russia might present such a picture, but that would probably be more for their own domestic audience. Anyway, we don't need to get into politics here. Figure skating without the nationalism is more interesting.

 

[[email protected]]

Healthcare cost are tragic in America, but in terms of economic importance in the World GPD is what matters. ( Also Russia is way further down the PPP list at #50 vs. The GDP list) That determines who the true competitors are, and Russia is not really one for the "West" economically. So, I think very few people in the West see some kind of Russia vs The West battle. Some politicians particularly in Russia might present such a picture, but that would probably be more for their own domestic audience. Anyway, we don't need to get into politics here. Figure skating without the nationalism is more interesting.

I am not sure how competent you are in the matter. You keep writing "GPD" which for me as a person who studied macroeconomics is the same as writing "UAS" instead of "USA" for an American. Russia is maybe #50 in GDP per capita but it is #6 in the world in terms of total GDP PPP based.

List of countries by GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And total GDP is what matters when we talk about the power of a nation. GDP per capita is important when we are talking about standards of living. And here I absolutely agree: we could have done much better than we are doing. But the reasons for that are not what should be discussed in the figure skating board.

One more thing to say. I am not a proponent of PPP based approach. There are a lot of flaws in it. If we talk nominal, Russia is currently #11. But nominal approach has flaws as well: different price levels in different countries and the influence of local currency exchange rate vs. dollar. For example, before the events of 2014 Russia was #7 in nominal GDP. Hence, the most adequate placement would be between PPP and nominal. For Russia it means #8-9 in the world as of today. Finally, it is possible to compare Russia's GDP with Texas - nominal based they are close. But Texas is the second state in the USA economy wise with 30 million people vs. 140 million people in Russia. No one would argue that per capita based nominal the US economy is 4-5 times bigger than Russia.

Now I am done with macroeconomics lecture.

 

[Novalis]

This forum really covers a wide variety of topics

 

[Skatesocs]

Now I am done with macroeconomics lecture.

Although, since we are having it for now... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

GDP (PPP) of Russia and several other countries (except for China) is comparable with Texas, yes. China has been ahead on GPD (PPP) for a while now - GDP (PPP) is in fact slowly converging towards population size (India being third and significantly behind China and the US, but it seems like it's catching up, and it's made the top 3, per population size).

Oh, also, neither Nominal nor PPP is the "better" approach.

 

[flanker]

That is a political view only in Russia. For Western countries, the real competitor is China, not Russia which has a GPD the same size as the US state of Texas

Don't know how it is where you live, but here if a Russian says "today the sky is bright", you are expected to say "today the sky is dark", otherwise you are paid agent.

 

[Mathman]

Way back in the day there used to be pro competitions" in the U.S. in the "USA versus the World" format. USA always won, the guest skaters picked up a paycheck, and a good time was had by all.

But one year the World team brought Phillippe Candeloro and Surya Bonaly who put on such a show that even the American audience demanded that the judges give them the prize, and they did.

Doesn't the Japan Open have the format, Japan versus North America versus Europe?

 

[[email protected]]

Although, since we are having it for now... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

GDP (PPP) of Russia and several other countries (except for China) is comparable with Texas, yes. China has been ahead on GPD (PPP) for a while now - GDP (PPP) is in fact slowly converging towards population size (India being third and significantly behind China and the US, but it seems like it's catching up, and it's made the top 3, per population size).

Oh, also, neither Nominal nor PPP is the "better" approach.

Based on the table that you quoted GDP PPP based of Russia is comparable with California+Texas. And this is much bigger than I expected.

 

[flanker]

Can you imagine Natan/Yuzu crushing Russian men, Sui/Han dominating pairs, Papadakis/Cizeron the dancers and then Russian girls stepping on the ice to this...




I WILL LIVE ANOTHER YEAR FOR THIS!

Better than this

 

[[email protected]]

Doesn't the Japan Open have the format, Japan versus North America versus Europe?

It does but only for men and ladies. "Russia open" with all 4 disciplines would be a new format. Russia against Asia, North America, Europe, why not? If it is done today, even if all the best skaters participate I would bet on Russia:

Men
Asia, NA - 1,2
Russia, Europe - 3,4

Pairs
Asia, Russia - 1,2
NA - 3
Europe - 4

Dance
Europe - 1
Russia, NA - 2,3
Asia - 4

Ladies
Russia - 1
Asia - 2
NA - 3
Europe - 4

Total
Russia - 6-10
Asia - 8-10
NA - 9-11
Europe - 12-13

I think that placement wise Russia will have a slight edge over Asia. If we talk scores than the outcome may be different basically because Nathan can produce a crazy score.

I did the table assuming 1 skater per team per discipline. It's like at the Olympics. But here we have just 4 teams. If we have 2 skaters (pairs) per team, NA and Asia are still strong in men, but Kolyada on a good day can challenge their second skater. Russia still gets top 2 places in ladies. In dance Europe does not have the second pair to be competitive with both Russia and NA so that they will have 1+6=7 There are 14 points to be divided between Russia and NA so that it may be 5 and 9 or 6 and 8. In both cases one of the teams will get ahead of Europe. In pairs I am not sure that S/H are destined to win - it is risky to bet on one pair when they have a track record of injuries. Even if they go as #1 the second Chinese pair may lose to Russia and NA - the same story as in dance.

All in all it will be an exciting competition. Europe is an outsider. But all other teams will have chances for the gold.

 

[Samoyed]

Don't know how it is where you live, but here if a russian says "today the sky is bright", you are expected to say "today the sky is dark", otherwise you are paid agent.

Never thought I would find perfect summary of my home country approach towards Russians on figure skating forum ...

 

[JazzUp]

But when there are foreign athletes involved, I do not want them to be in a situation where they may have to face a hostile Russian audience because I'll bet you the world there will be people who take it too far.

you mean like you're doing right now with your xenophobic insinuations?

 

[Skatesocs]

Way back in the day there used to be pro competitions" in the U.S. in the "USA versus the World" format. USA always won, the guest skaters picked up a paycheck, and a good time was had by all.

But one year the World team brought Phillippe Candeloro and Surya Bonaly who put on such a show that even the American audience demanded that the judges give them the prize, and they did.

Doesn't the Japan Open have the format, Japan versus North America versus Europe?

Yes exactly! It doesn't need to be a serious affair. Who cares if Russia wins a TV show organized by Russia lol. Just have fun.

JO is JSF exclusive (not ISU sponsored), and it doesn't include Pairs and ID, AND the skaters just perform LPs. It also has the Japan vs NA vs Europe format as @[email protected] mentioned, but it's still new to do the Russia vs The World thing.

 

[[email protected]]

you mean like you're doing right now with your xenophobic insinuations?

There are people who feed on these insinuations although if we are talking figure skating the only relevant data point that they are not tired to bring up is Sochi with "booing" Yuna and leaving the stands after Plushy resigned. We have been past this since a very long time. Many Russians felt "Us vs. Them" after boycott campaign in the West with a manufactured reason. I could get figure skating tickets only because there were multiple cancellations from foreigners. Because of those cancellations most of the audience were the Russians. And a significant part of those Russians were hockey fans. We know that the rules of etiquette in figure skating (tennis) are different from those in hockey (footbal). Russian fans in Sochi did not. Moreover, the short program in ladies started right after Russia had lost to Finland the quarter final hockey match. This could not but affect the attitude of many hockey fans who were filled with negative emotions and anger, etc., etc.

This "patriotic" audience in Sochi shouted "Ra sse ya!" when it was inappropriate. That was the case - I will not deny it as I was there. After that I visited more than a dozen of competitions with foreign skaters. And never were there any indications of any hostility. I remember the euphoria and standing ovation after Caro skated her SP at Rostelecom. What can I say about the people who cannot unglue themselves from stereotypes? I'd rather say nothing.

 

[Jeanie19]

Way back in the day there used to be pro competitions" in the U.S. in the "USA versus the World" format. USA always won, the guest skaters picked up a paycheck, and a good time was had by all.

But one year the World team brought Phillippe Candeloro and Surya Bonaly who put on such a show that even the American audience demanded that the judges give them the prize, and they did.

Doesn't the Japan Open have the format, Japan versus North America versus Europe

I loved those competitions. They had one with amateurs vs pros. There could be one juniors vs seniors.