2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[yume]

I more open to the comeback of team challenge cup.

 

[Znowflake]

Lots to unpack here.

First off, I have no dog in this fight. I have no emotional attachment to either.

I don‘t agree with the “boring” as subtitle while she was telling her stories for example. That’s certainly a fair criticism.

And if the subtitles are proven to be inaccurate, I won’t hesitate to come back and UNEQUIVOCALLY apologize to her. I want accuracy. But, none of the articles I have seen contradict any of the main points. If you have an article that does, please share it and I will change my views.

The audience award is a consolation prize, not the main prize. It’s the Channel One Trophy, not the Audience Award Trophy.

That she won more disciplines shows that she also has a strong team.

There is a huge difference to being a coach and being a fan. As a coach you win and lose as a team. If she was a pundit offering her opinion, that’s one thing, but complaining as a coach in this manner is bad form.

Any manager, in any sport, complaining like this will also be criticized.

And to say she would’ve done better with a different skater is a hypothetical. Alena, with all her rust, could have done worse. To say as a coach that there were only 3 top female skaters is nonsense.

To complain about the format publicly after you lose is sour milk.

Why would I pour my heart and soul for her as my coach if she will publicly discard me if I have an off day?

I’d like to have a link from the people who actually designed the tournament that says it is a consolation prize? Your opinion is subjective. Mine simply stated facts. She complained about the format immediately after it was changed.

 

[Scott512]

This. It's as a consequence of that, also the only federation where 50% of the skaters have had Covid.
I enjoy seeing how many here twist the narrative according to what suits their argument better in the moment.
One day you are appalled by the fact Anna was allowed to skate at Nationals, insinuating she is near physical collapse at every competition and should never even be there, due to the horrible aftermath of Covid. Alena has been out for months (sometimes cause of Covid when it suits to say that, other times cause she's just lazy). Evgenia ended up in hospital and, when it suits the argument, it's popular to mention she even has heart and lung damage.
We have not seen 1 single Russian coach wear their mask correctly during a competition, and the coach the poster personally dislikes will be called out for it.

Then when it's not welcome to criticize Russia as a country and Russia as a Federation of skating (cause both enitities behave wrecklessly), suddenly it's "xenophobia", "not only Russia, stop pointing fingers", "just looking for someone to blame", "it's not even as bad as you say!" etc etc

Russia should be criticized for its handling of Coronavirus for its figure skaters contacting covid at a much higher rate then other countries figure skaters. That's not a phobia. Constructive criticism is legitimate. Russia cannot afford this to happen to their figure skaters in an olympic season. It's up to the skaters and their parents to take control of the situation if the Federation doesn't.

 

[Znowflake]

It was a TEAM competition. Each team had 16 of the strongest skaters/couples in Russia in each discipline and they had equal chances to win depending on the entire team's performance, not just 1 skater. It wasn't Team with Kamila vs. Team without Kamila.

Alina got in her team the skaters that she gets along with better and so did Evgenia and that was the whole point of the competition, to have a good time, cheer for your team and skate the best you could within a healthy and more relaxed competitive environment.

Again subjective thinking - everything I said was based on facts while yours is on feelings and what you think about who likes who.

Fact: the draw was changed with little to no notice. Evgenia made herself clear from the start that she did not agree with this.

Fact: Red Car won the tournament based on the ladies discipline.

Fact: Team Medo won the audience choice award and scored higher in 3/4 disciplines.

 

[LiamForeman]

Re: Medvedeva. I don’t think she was wrong to verbalize that the way teams were assigned was not in her favor. I think that most viewers realized it anyhow.
It’s really unfortunate that this event, which should have been fun and entertaining for fans, has turned into another fan war. Although I do think Russia has picked up on the fact that fans seem to crave the drama and conflict, and they sure do capitalize on it.

Hehe. I think the next time the captains should be Yagudin and Plushenko! At least both couldn't stand one another and made no attempt to hide their disdain for each other. Alina was always all class and ignored Med's classless and rude behavior since the Olympics. The negativity was all Evgenia and her fans. But Yagudiin and Plushy would be awesome foes! lol

 

[yume]

Fact: Red Car won the tournament based on the ladies discipline.

Exactly.

Fact: Team Medo won the audience choice award and scored higher in 3/4 disciplines.

Then the teams weren't unbalanced in Zagitova's favor.
Exceptionals skates and mistakes from other team gave her team the victory.

Or would have it been more fair to see Medvedeva's team have the win in all disciplines?

I guess yes, because she would have won.

 

[dante]

This. It's as a consequence of that, also the only federation where 50% of the skaters have had Covid.
I enjoy seeing how many here twist the narrative according to what suits their argument better in the moment.
One day you are appalled by the fact Anna was allowed to skate at Nationals, insinuating she is near physical collapse at every competition and should never even be there, due to the horrible aftermath of Covid. Alena has been out for months (sometimes cause of Covid when it suits to say that, other times cause she's just lazy). Evgenia ended up in hospital and, when it suits the argument, it's popular to mention she even has heart and lung damage.
We have not seen 1 single Russian coach wear their mask correctly during a competition, and the coach the poster personally dislikes will be called out for it.

Then when it's not welcome to criticize Russia as a country and Russia as a Federation of skating (cause both enitities behave wrecklessly), suddenly it's "xenophobia", "not only Russia, stop pointing fingers", "just looking for someone to blame", "it's not even as bad as you say!" etc etc

It seems to me, the only person here twisting the narrative is you. Who says 50%? Who says the only federation? Who says so about Alena and Evgenia? What does it have to do with the competitions, especially now, when the participants can simply be vaccinated?

The only point I agree with is that coaches must wear masks properly even if they are vaccinated, else they give a bad example to those who are not.

 

[alexocfp]

I’d like to have a link from the people who actually designed the tournament that says it is a consolation prize? Your opinion is subjective. Mine simply stated facts. She complained about the format immediately after it was changed.

You don’t need a link. It’s the Channel One Trophy. And it’s awarded based on a scoring system.

The other is a popularity contest. Few tuned in to see that. The viewers were there for the competition. Not for the results of a text vote.

So, if you say she complained about the format, it’s a consession that at least part of the subtitles and the articles were accurate.

And the format change applied to both participants. Good coaches adjust to obstacles. And admit defeat when they lose.

And not to be pedantic, but the format didn’t change, the draw procedure changed.

She got 3 of the 4 better disciples. So it was not as lopsided as is being advertised.

To be clear, this isn’t a personal attack on her. I want to see her back in competition soon. I’m just commenting on the press conference.

Would have written the same had the roles been reversed.

I will leave this part with a question: had she won, would she have given the same press conference and called out the 3 other females?

 

[flanker]

I’d like to have a link from the people who actually designed the tournament that says it is a consolation prize? Your opinion is subjective. Mine simply stated facts. She complained about the format immediately after it was changed.

What facts? That the subtitles were incorrect (or "shady")? Prove your "facts", then.

 

[anonymoose_au]

And had time left over to throw her skaters under bus as well.

I don't think this fair, I mean come on, Alina did have the stronger ladies team and there's no changing that. Not only that but because it was based on total scores rather than set points for coming 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc like the Olympics Team event, the scoring potential of Anna, Kamila and Daria U pretty much guaranteed a win.

Also, I find it really unfair that Zhenya Med is being painted as an evil witch for what she said about Maiia. Alina might have stuck up for her there, but don't forget she didn't chose her for her team and she was in a position to. Clearly, she didn't rate her as highly as Daria U either.

Maiia was treated unfairly by everyone at that event.

 

[yume]

Maiia was treated unfairly by everyone at that event.

Nope.

 

[flanker]

Maiia was treated unfairly by everyone at that event.

In that case everyone who was picked last was treated unfairly

 

[Znowflake]

Exactly.

Then the teams weren't unbalanced in Zagitova's favor.
Exceptionals skates and mistakes from other team gave her team the victory.

Or would have it been more fair to see Medvedeva's team have the win in all disciplines?

I guess yes, because she would have won.

Subjective

What facts? That the subtitles were incorrect (or "shady")? Prove your "facts", then.

Go ask a Russian speaker Who is not on team Alina or team Zhenya. You will get your answer then

 

[Shayuki]

I don't think this fair, I mean come on, Alina did have the stronger ladies team and there's no changing that. Not only that but because it was based on total scores rather than set points for coming 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc like the Olympics Team event, the scoring potential of Anna, Kamila and Daria U pretty much guaranteed a win.

Also, I find it really unfair that Zhenya Med is being painted as an evil witch for what she said about Maiia. Alina might have stuck up for her there, but don't forget she didn't chose her for her team and she was in a position to. Clearly, she didn't rate her as highly as Daria U either.

Maiia was treated unfairly by everyone at that event.

Well that too is Medvedeva's fault isn't it, since if she had left Trusova as the last pick, Maia would have had to have been picked by Zagitova.

 

[flanker]

Subjective

Go ask a Russian speaker Who is not on team Alina or team Zhenya. You will get your answer then

I'm asking you because you brought that daring claim that you are stating facts. So either you can prove you are stating facts or you just simply state your position. Which is not fact until proven.

 

[yume]

Actual footage of Maiia looking at Medvedeva the next week at training.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CLE9JysFm0D/?igshid=4le7wl1ijsyl

 

[anonymoose_au]

In that case everyone who was picked last was treated unfairly

Not necessarily, but it's much easier to defend someone when their presence has no effect on how your team went. Why didn't Alina pick Maiia? Because she knew Daria was the better choice. So she gets the benefit of the highest scoring team, she can afford to be generous.

Well that too is Medvedeva's fault isn't it, since if she had left Trusova as the last pick,

Apparently it wasn't, according to several other posters here the rule was once either of the two seeded skaters were announced (in this case Anna), the other team had to use their pick automatically to get the other (in this case Sasha).

Incidentally it's rather interesting that Anna and Sasha were the seeded ones. Kamila beat Sasha easily at Nats and is clearly the better skater, why wasn't she seeded?

 

[Fluture]

Well that too is Medvedeva's fault isn't it, since if she had left Trusova as the last pick, Maia would have had to have been picked by Zagitova.

How often does it need to be repeated? She couldn‘t. Trusova had to immediately walk over to Evgenia once Alina chose Anna. It was a rule for the seeded skaters. I initially thought the same thing but it was corrected both here and in the other thread multiple times.

Also, I find it really unfair that Zhenya Med is being painted as an evil witch for what she said about Maiia. Alina might have stuck up for her there, but don't forget she didn't chose her for her team and she was in a position to. Clearly, she didn't rate her as highly as Daria U either.

Evgenia herself said about Maiia that “she did better in training but the mental factor affected“ and that “she is generally well done“ (suppose it should mean: she generally did well)

Her comment about Maiia and Aliona was ill-chosen for sure, but it was clearly not an attempt at “throwing Maiia under the bus“. What she meant was that, regardless of the draw, three world-champion material girls are hard to separate among two teams - so one will always be at a significant disadvantage. Her choice of words - “Kostornaia in top shape“ - strongly implies Kostornaya-with-3A, which would place her on the level of Trusova, Shcherbakova and Valieva. The thing is that overall, the teams in each discipline were pretty well balanced in terms of potential (in men, for example, Evgenia largely won because of Mark‘s outstanding and somewhat unexpected performance) and the victories there were by a small margin. Ladies was the only major outlier, which is what Evgenia criticized.

So, she clearly didn‘t mean disrespect, she just didn‘t explain herself properly and it resulted in this mess. And yes, I agree that it was not nice towards poor Maiia.

Overall, she was cranky and impolite at that press conference and I won’t excuse that. Watching the press conference, I was rather disappointed myself. But let‘s just say she wasn‘t the only one. Alina Z’s insistence on there being only one winner in a fun event wasn‘t exactly the pinnacle of politeness either. Yes, she might have felt required to snap back after what she endured in 2018 but was this really the place for it? After all, even if only one team got the trophy, an event like this exists on the notion of there being multiple winners. What else would you call Misha or Mark or S/B, then? Each “won“ their respective categories (or in the case of Mark, he won the FS over no other than Kolyada, which is a pretty major victory). So, yes there are winners “here and there“, in each team. Evgenia was disrespectful for interrupting Alina multiple times (her choice of words when pointing to her own team’s wins was also poor) and I do understand Alina’s tone but the way in which she subconsciously undermined the victories in the other team was not exactly necessary either.

Honestly, though: I don’t see what the big deal is. It was a stressful week for everyone involved, resulting in snarkiness and pettiness from both sides that normally wouldn‘t have been shown. People trying to paint one as the “angel“ and one as the “evil bully“, IMO, are laughable. Neither was innocent here. Sometimes all of us are petty and mean - not good, not nice, but very, very human.

In general, I think pitting Alina and Evgenia against each other is not smart (though probably highly profitable as seen here). Both show scars from those Olympics 2018 - Evgenia in how she seemingly cannot take a loss when it‘s to Alina (she has no problem losing to anybody else) and Alina in how she shows a (pretty understandable) aversion to the whole “there are two winners/golds“ notion. Just...leave them both be, this is not healthy. But I fear that this event and the resulting drama will have just the opposite effect. Why care about the mental health of your athletes when you can just milk them for drama and money instead?

 

[Znowflake]

I'm asking you because you brought that daring claim that you are stating facts. So either you ccan prove you are stating facts or you just simply state your position. Which is not fact until proven.

You can ask a Russian speaker like I said who is not involved in figure skating. I think that is objective enough. I said that was shady and anyone educated would think so with boring splattered throughout the vid.

Let me remind you of my facts

Team Medo won the Audience Award and had the highest points in 3 out of 4 disciplines. This is a fact that can’t be altered by subjective opinions on whether that award is worthless or not.

Right after the competition began, she pointed out the draw was changed which wasn’t agreed upon.

and if you want subjective:

I think winning a team competition based on an individual discipline is pretty funny . I’d rather be on the “losing” team

 

[alexocfp]

I don't think this fair, I mean come on, Alina did have the stronger ladies team and there's no changing that. Not only that but because it was based on total scores rather than set points for coming 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc like the Olympics Team event, the scoring potential of Anna, Kamila and Daria U pretty much guaranteed a win.

Also, I find it really unfair that Zhenya Med is being painted as an evil witch for what she said about Maiia. Alina might have stuck up for her there, but don't forget she didn't chose her for her team and she was in a position to. Clearly, she didn't rate her as highly as Daria U either.

Maiia was treated unfairly by everyone at that event.

Hold on, I am not speaking for anyone but myself, but I never, nor will, paint her as an evil witch.

These are critisisms for Med the coach, not Med the person.
Substitite Mourinho as the name or another manager.

As a pundit, you can say one thing. As a coach, there are different standards you are held to. Her comments and exhaustive list of gripes, came off as sour grapes. Let‘s also not forget that Liza, who my love for is well documented, also finished 5th in the FS.

It was a 16 v 16 event. And overall, one team’s 16 scored more points than the other team’s 16.

And if you knew the ladies on your side were not as good on the other side, you then see where you can gain from the other 9 programs.

And let me ask you this: if the guys complained about the jump contest, what would the reaction have been?