2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Znowflake]

Then you should post it, instead of telling a Russian they don't know what they are talking about as you said to dante.

Way @ twisting my words. My facts are listed above. Why would I post the translation I got? Go get your own.

 

[dante]

Ahem... flanker & Skatesocs, do you really need to argue with a troll that badly?

Alina Z’s insistence on there being only one winner in a fun event wasn‘t exactly the pinnacle of politeness either. Yes, she might have felt required to snap back after what she endured in 2018 but was this really the place for it?

I assume Alina is still the same restrained person as we know her; and rather than letting off steam, I think she more or less consciously acted like a leader - after all, defending the interests of your people is the main distinction of a leader. Mind you, she has a great teacher and a role model.

 

[Skatesocs]

Ahem... flanker & Skatesocs, do you really need to argue with a troll that badly?

You are correct, haha.

My facts are listed above.

You should stop using this bolded word.

 

[anonymoose_au]

It was not like that the difference was set before the competition even started.

Maybe not exactly that, but it was a pretty easy bet to say it would come down to the ladies. The dance and pairs invited were all very evenly matched, the men were always going to be inconsistent as anything (when was the last time those guys had two amazing competitions in a row? Maybe Dima with 2020 Nats and Euros?)

The ladies were also supposed to be even, unfortunately Aliona was unable to compete.

My question is was Maiia the next highest scoring lady in line? Sure being based in Moscow made her inclusion convenient but was it fair? And I mean fair for Maiia, I don't think it was, not only was she called up at the last second, she also had the lowest scoring potential, neither Alina OR Zhenya were going to pick her if they could help it.

 

[Znowflake]

Fact:
Team Medo - highest points in 3/4 disciplines

Fact:

the draw format was suddenly changed at the onset of the competition

Fact:

Team Medo won the Audience Choice Award

Fact:

Team Alina won the cup based on the highest scores in only 1 discipline - ladies

That’s all

 

[flanker]

Fact:
Team Medo - highest points in 3/4 disciplines

Fact:

the draw format was suddenly changed at the onset of the competition

Fact:

Team Medo won the Audience Choice Award

Fact:

Team Alina won the cup based on the highest scores in only 1 discipline - ladies


Is there anything that you can refute in this? I am not sure what facts are not actually facts.

OK, those are your facts, and their importance:
Claim: Team Medo - highest points in 3/4 disciplines
Answer: So what. Hockey is played on three periods and if one team won two of them, it doesn't make him the winner of the whole match. The rules are that all scores are counted together on one team's account. That statement isn't worth further promotion.

Claim: the draw format was suddenly changed at the onset of the competition
Answer: The draw format was changed for both team captains. Not just for one. Each of the captains could chose first in two disciplines. It didn't favour either, therefore it doesn't give a right to make lousy allusions it was somehow unjust towards one of them.

Claim: Team Medo won the Audience Choice Award
Answer: Again, so what. Let her enjoy it, I don't care.

Claim: Team Alina won the cup based on the highest scores in only 1 discipline - ladies
Answer: See above. The total score is the score from all the disciplines and using the other possible system (olympic team competition, WTT) wouldn't change the outcome. It is not fragmented into disciplines.

This has simply no value, nothing to complain about seriously.

Of course, you personally are more than free to celebrate Evgenia's team audience award. My opinion, and I fully admit it is the opinion, is that it was pure consolation prize and while we know how the actual competition was evaluated, we don't know anything about how the (and which) audience was voting (because Ermolina is not the whole audience ). But that's not important at all, the audience award was not what the skaters were competing for there on the ice.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Claim: Team Medo won the Audience Choice Award
Answer: Again, so what? Let her enjoy it, I don't care.

You mean like Alina failed to do? I don't see how ignoring her poor sportsmanship at that moment while harping in about Zhenya's doesn't make the (general) you any less biased?

Oh yeah and THEN she went a reposted a story from her fan club showing that in some other (unofficial) poll her team would have won the audience award too. Wow, that's stellar sportsmanship isn't it? Bravo.

Both of them acted like brats for whatever reason, by pushing the idea that Alina was the perfect well-behaved mature one who didn't put a foot wrong is guaranteed to rile up other fans.

 

[Fluture]

Both of them acted like brats for whatever reason.

Stressful week, screaming themselves horse trying to support their teams, expectations, media pitting them against each other, having to sit in a press conference when they‘d much rather go and get some sleep... yeah, I‘d be cranky too. Also note that a week before, when they weren‘t sleep deprived and stressed out, they were perfectly cordial with each other at the Urgant show. A little awkward, perhaps, but they even complimented each other and showed nothing but politeness.

Personally, I’m tired of putting athletes on a pedestal. I did it with Evgenia once, wasn’t a good idea. It only ends in disappointment because these people are just human with lots of flaws. So, yeah, it happens. Maybe it shouldn‘t have but it did. And of course fans and the media will run with it.

 

[alexocfp]

Stressful week, screaming themselves horse trying to support their teams, expectations, media pitting them against each other, having to sit in a press conference when they‘d much rather go and get some sleep... yeah, I‘d be cranky too. Also note that a week before, when they weren‘t sleep deprived and stressed out, they were perfectly cordial with each other at the Urgant show. A little awkward, perhaps, but they even complimented each other and showed nothing but politeness.

Personally, I’m tired of putting athletes on a pedestal. I did it with Evgenia once, wasn’t a good idea. It only ends in disappointment because these people are just human with lots of flaws. So, yeah, it happens. Maybe it shouldn‘t have but it did. And of course fans and the media will run with it.

I also learned a long time ago that press conferences aren’t press conferences.

They are small rooms where you needle and goad the participants into saying and doing things that will create headlines, real or imagined. It’s a trap in other words. Haha

 

[tikse]

Fact:

Team Medo won the Audience Choice Award

I'm not so sure about it.

Subjective

Go ask a Russian speaker Who is not on team Alina or team Zhenya. You will get your answer then

I'm a native Russian speaker and I can confirm that translation is correct.
And that I'm neither Team Zagitova nor Team Medvedeva.

 

[anonymoose_au]

My opinion, and I fully admit it is the opinion, is that it was pure consolation prize and whgile we know how the actual competition was evaluated, we don't know anything about how the (and which) audience was voting (because Ermolina is not the whole audience ).

Oh so now it's a fake prize too?! Because Team of Firsts couldn't possibly win a single thing, the losers.

BTW putting a after such a nasty remark doesn't make it not nasty. It's like saying "No offense" before proceeding to tell someone how much they suck.

I can't even.

 

[flanker]

Maybe not exactly that, but it was a pretty easy bet to say it would come down to the ladies. The dance and pairs invited were all very evenly matched, the men were always going to be inconsistent as anything (when was the last time those guys had two amazing competitions in a row? Maybe Dima with 2020 Nats and Euros?)v

The ladies were also supposed to be even, unfortunately Aliona was unable to compete.

My question is was Maiia the next highest scoring lady in line? Sure being based in Moscow made her inclusion convenient but was it fair? And I mean fair for Maiia, I don't think it was, not only was she called up at the last second, she also had the lowest scoring potential, neither Alina OR Zhenya were going to pick her if they could help it.

In fact now I quite agree with what you say in the first paragraph. I would add that in pairs Alina chose first, she chose Tarasova/Morozov and they gained best score in SP and FS and confirmed their win at russian nationals. In ice dance Evgenia voted first and chose Stepanova/Bukin, and they similarly won according to expectations. Their results were actually even more predictable as in ice dane there much less flukes happen than in any other discipline. While there was some probability that Tarasova/Morozov could make some more mistakes and leave the first place for someone else (and therefore bring less points to the team), in ice dance such variant was very improbable. But OK, I think we can take ice dance and pairs for more or less equal and predictable.

So we have ladies and men. Again, Alina could choose first in ladies while Evgenia could choose first in men. So I hardly can see a problem in that, because yes, while Alina's ladies can be considered stronger, Evgenia's men can be also considered stronger. For how much is one side stronger than the other it is (and wasn't) not written anywhere, both sides could have meltdowns and perfect skates. For instance Kamila landed 3A both in SP and FS, but it was the first time she even tried that in a competition and it could turn the other way. It is obvious she went there to try it in a competition because the possible failure wouldn't have that kind of a consequence as it would at international competition or russian nationals. A vice versa Kolyada gained a score he never gained before (I believe, I don't say I have it all in my head). And we can go down. Sasha wasn't clean but if she was, the resuld could be different. Same with men, Kondratiuk, Aliev and the rest, some delivered better than expected, some worse.

If the complain aims somewhere, then it should count the potential that could be expected from every skater in every team and the probability of delivering and bringing high/low score. So far I didn't see any real explanation why I should see the teams unbalanced as a whole.

 

[Skatesocs]

I’m tired of putting athletes on a pedestal.

I agree that this shouldn't happen. It happens too much in skating for my taste.

 

[alexocfp]

Channel one must be laughing their butts off right now. They stirred the pot good, let me tell ya.

At this rate, I’m going to be looking more forward to the second Channel One Trophy than to the Worlds or Olympics. Hahaha

Maybe next time, channel one should also include a Channel One Trophy of press conferences. Haha

 

[flanker]

Oh so now it's a fake prize too?! Because Team of Firsts couldn't possibly win a single thing, the losers.

BTW putting a after such a nasty remark doesn't make it not nasty. It's like saying "No offense" before proceeding to tell someone how much they suck.

I can't even.

I say that prize makes no importance for me at all no matter how it was truly awarded. Or we could make arguments that Alina is constantly winning popularity awards, for which I am very happy, but honestly much more happy I am for her being olympic/worlds/european/GP/national (plus junior) champion and at those competitions you gain results by skating, not by popularity awards.

 

[Zagipatra]

She’s still jumping a rippon lutz, even if it‘s UR, that‘s not bad at all for someone who‘s not training full-time. And her spins are still some of the best as well. Sure her skating skills and cross overs have regressed further, but without diligent, hour-long practice that will happen, especially if you don‘t have the strongest basics (compared to, for example, her spins, which are still excellent)

Honestly, I don‘t think she will (or should) stick out negatively. Unlike Anna and Kamila (and Evgenia, I guess) she‘s not trying to train competitively, the requirements are just different. Her fans will be happy to see her and that should be enough.

As for Alina and Evgenia coming back. The difference is that the latter has unresolved business in the sport, the former has not. I do think Evgenia will try, but in this field where even 16-17 year olds are already considered “outdated“ and “old“, I don‘t think she‘ll have much of a chance. I don‘t like it (some do, I‘m aware of that) but that’s the way figure skating is at the moment.



Well, not discussing her character or anything here but just saying that she chose first in men, too, so a complaint like that would make exactly zero sense.

I am totally fine with her not being as in shape as Anya or Kamila but she shouldn't fall behind Evgenia who is 3 years older than her. People are aware of the fact that she is a few years younger and beat her in the Olympics so watching her fall in shows (literally) will fuel Tat and co. who never acknowledged her as the "true" champion.

I really think that Eteri has installed this "I have won everything"-mentality so that she can concentrate on the young one's while still milking Alina's popularity for her shows. Alina seems to have lost her perfectionism which may be good for her overall but its still a little disappointing to see her just accept these URs and falls. Plus, she will only be the reigning OC for another year after that her successor will be the main draw especially if she lets herself go like that.

Regarding Evgenia's situation: I have no doubt that she wants to compete but I doubt she will withstand the pressure of having literally every TUT-girl ahead of her. I would be much more confident if she had stayed with Orser. We also have to consider that she is prone to injuries so who knows how long her body will hold up.

It's depressing that we will probably not see that OC 2022 at the Olympics 2026...

 

[Fluture]

I agree that this shouldn't happen. It happens too much in skating for my taste.

Yes, this perhaps wasn‘t the best choice of metaphor.

In fact now I quite agree with what you say in the first paragraph. I would add that in pairs Alina chose first, she chose Tarasova/Morozov and they gained best score in SP and FS and confirmed their win at russian nationals. In ice dance Evgenia voted first and chose Stepanova/Bukin, and they similarly won according to expectations. Their results were actually even more predictable as in ice dane there much less flukes happen than in any other discipline. While there was some probability that Tarasova/Morozov could make some more mistakes and leave the first place for someone else (and therefore bring less points to the team), in ice dance such variant was very improbable. But OK, I think we can take ice dance and pairs for more or less equal and predictable.

So we have ladies and men. Again, Alina could choose first in ladies while Evgenia could choose first in men.

Correction: Evgenia chose first in pairs and dance, while Alina was allowed first pick in men and ladies. See here:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CK6fbx2Kjj1/

Criticism could be made that generally, singles are the more decisive disciplines, so getting first choice in both makes it a bit unbalanced. Maybe something to consider for future editions.

 

[flanker]

You mean like Alina failed to do? I don't see how ignoring her poor sportsmanship at that moment while harping in about Zhenya's doesn't make the (general) you any less biased?

Oh yeah and THEN she went a reposted a story from her fan club showing that in some other (unofficial) poll her team would have won the audience award too. Wow, that's stellar sportsmanship isn't it? Bravo.

Both of them acted like brats for whatever reason, by pushing the idea that Alina was the perfect well-behaved mature one who didn't put a foot wrong is guaranteed to rile up other fans.

So, literally blame the victim of showing the "poor sportsmanship".

With this it surely has no sense to continue in such conversation.

 

[Skatesocs]

Yes, this perhaps wasn‘t the best choice of metaphor.

It was funny, but it's also true. Skating being an "individual sport" does seem like it makes people project their own personalities onto the skaters, and makes them take the criticism too personally (I am pretty sure there is some research on how fans project their own personas onto celebrities and think of them as friends - and it's not unimaginable that it would be the case with certain skaters who've made it big in the sport, and even some skaters who haven't made it as big but whose careers are followed very closely anyway). I wish skating fans just understood that skaters are people that they don't know, which sometimes it looks like they don't. I sometimes thinks it's just the younger people in the fanbase, but the oldies are culpable just as much...

 

[flanker]

Correction: Evgenia chose first in pairs and dance, while Alina was allowed first pick in men and ladies. See here:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CK6fbx2Kjj1/

Criticism could be made that generally, singles are the more decisive disciplines, so getting first choice in both makes it a bit unbalanced. Maybe something to consider for future editions.

Was it? You're right of course, I am truly sorry and thank you for the correction.

BTW this IMO shows how unpredictable it can be. Alina chose Dima Aliev first but Misha Kolyada won among men (I hope I remember it right ). Zhenya chose Sasha Boikova/Dina Kozlovskii but Zhenya Tarasova/Vladimir Morozov won the pairs. I think that their choices were also driven by sympathies, not just by strategic decisions.