2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Skatesocs]

I think to be fair, if we're just talking about the competition and not this interview or that conspiracy, we would need to consider the Pairs and Men, too, and see who skated to potential and who did not. ID may be can be ignored because there's less scope for mistakes in it, and we can basically compare with RusNats to see if they were scored as expected.

I said on the thread (as a joke) that Zagitova's team was weaker without the ladies, and they had to balance it somehow - this was of course right after we saw how they all performed. If we look at the men and pairs, then we can make a more reasonable comment.

Right now I think, Medvedeva did have the stronger ID couples. And she did have the stronger Pairs - B/K and M/G both skated full seasons, whereas T/M really only showed up to Nationals. T/M did win Nationals, but B/K and M/G could easily match or surpass their results depending on how they all skated - this cannot be said about P/K even if they're still a good pair. Edge to Medvedeva.

For the men it's a bit more sketchy. Samarin was injured, so that's -1 for Medvedeva, but she got both the National Champ and Bronze medalist. Zagitova, OTOH, got the silver medalist, but also someone recovering from COVID in Aliev, and Mozalev who hasn't been particularly strong this season. Kolyada was the only who looked strong this season. I'd give the very slight edge to Medvedeva.

Women to Zagitova, no doubt. It would be closer if they'd all skated their best, but it would still be Zagitova's.

I'm not sure what this would add up to. I am thinking that the teams were indeed balanced even now, just not in the usual sense of "all teams had strong skaters in each discipline" or "half the disciplines on both sides were strong". Rather 3 to Medvedeva, and 1 to Zagitova - but the particularly strong one went to Zagitova, making it balanced.

 

[Scott512]

You mean like Alina failed to do? I don't see how ignoring her poor sportsmanship at that moment while harping in about Zhenya's doesn't make the (general) you any less biased?

Oh yeah and THEN she went a reposted a story from her fan club showing that in some other (unofficial) poll her team would have won the audience award too. Wow, that's stellar sportsmanship isn't it? Bravo.

Both of them acted like brats for whatever reason, by pushing the idea that Alina was the perfect well-behaved mature one who didn't put a foot wrong is guaranteed to rile up other fans.

I think you're being too hard on Alina.

Both girls desperately wanted their teams to win and understandably so. Both girls did great as captains and their nerves were frayed without question. Alina may have been annoyed Zhenya was late to the final press conference. Who knows. Neither were perfect but both were great captains and it turned out to be a fun and exciting event.

The relationship between Zhenya and Alina is not what it used to be pre Olympics where they had fun with each other. But its certainly not a plushy and yags relationship where they still hate each other 15 years later.

I say we cheer for our favorites they are fantastic athletes and spokespersons in my opinion. Zhenya and Alina were very human in this team event it was a spectacular event and they were outstanding captains and personalities even if they weren't perfect.

I also think that Ermolina woman was far from perfect in her job.

 

[Amei]

Very true there are no villains here

The Anna and KV situation parallels Zhenya and Alina. Its unbelievable. I just don't know if Anna is s mentor to Kamilla the way Zhenya was to Alina. Remember Anna saw the entire Zhenya and Alina Olympic situation unfold. Anna seems like nothing fazes her so maybe Kamila nipping at her heels does not bother a dam bit.

The question now is how can the great coach straddle the fence with Anna and KV to the point where they both stay happy the next couple years? I mean Anna has been with EG for 13 years she is like the 3rd daughter of this woman. KV is a phenom at 14 like we've not seen before. It should be interesting to see what happens and if Eteri can keep them happy as well as all the other great female talent she coaches.

I'm calling that as PR baloney, based on what Eteri has said to highlight Medvedeva's issues, when Medvedeva left her for Orser and when Kostornaia left, was that she didn't want to be on the same practice ice as Zagitova, and asked Eteri to hold Zagitova back in Juniors. That doesn't sound like a mentor relationship.

 

[Scott512]

I'm calling that as PR baloney, based on what Eteri has said to highlight Medvedeva's issues, when Medvedeva left her for Orser and when Kostornaia left, was that she didn't want to be on the same practice ice as Zagitova, and asked Eteri to hold Zagitova back in Juniors. That doesn't sound like a mentor relationship.

Maybe she wasn't an official mentor but Alina looked up to her like one. Zhenya was her role model which is why Zhenya took to Alina. No one knew in 2015 or 2016 that Alina would become so great. But that's why you play the game and that's why you let things play out to see what happens.

 

[Finley]

I'm having problems understanding all those theories, ideas and explanations on why Team Evgenia lost.

They lost because they made too many mistakes, simple as that.
While Alinas ladies were relatively clean, without major mistakes, lets sum up blue team ladies:
- Maia a quad fall, a quad pop and a mistake on 2A.
-Sasha a quad fall, questionable combination.
-Liza a 3A pop, a few "turn outs".

And that's only from what I saw amd remember.
Errors make you lose points and losing points makes you lose competitions.

Do we really have to analyse and look for a hidden agenda in everything?

Only if the wrong girl wins.

And in this case no one girl/person won. It. Was. A. Team.

Every single team member needed to skate to the best of their ability to get as many points as possible. Kamila and Anna may have sealed the deal, but they didn't do it alone. Their scores built onto the scores of their teammates.

Neither Alina nor Zhenya won. Their teams won. Both teams received almost the same amount of prize money. Both teams got lots of love from the crowd. The judges were generous to both teams.

Alina and Zhenya's role was to create a team spirit and a fun environment. They both did that. To quote one of the media: "Everyone that wanted to have fun, had fun."

When Alina sat down at the press conference she said she was as happy as she had ever been in her life. For her team. Then the press conference started and you could tell she was just trying to get through it. I thought she kept it together and didn't say anything more than she had to. Then Ermolina said what she said.

Even then Alina wouldn't have opened her mouth but someone from the media prompted her to speak. She actually asked Ermolina: "Can I?" Ermolina said 'yes' and, two provoking interruptions later, found out Alina isn't 15 anymore.

Alina's potential retirement means she's not under their thumb anymore. Or she won't be very soon. They better enjoy their cut of her Puma and Shiseido money while they can. If I were her I wouldn't sign another major contract until I knew no-one else would profit from it. RusFed supported her for 3 years until she won the Olympics. They've had 3 years since to take their cut of her of post Olympic earnings. Hopefully everyone feels fairly compensated at the end of the day.

I'd like to think that Eteri and RusFed wouldn't make the same mistake twice. But you never know. I hope whoever wins Gold in Beijing learns from Alina's experience and doesn't allow herself to be silenced and her victory to be minimized and dismissed. Start practicing now: "I am the Olympic Champion. This is my Gold Medal. I won it."

 

[Finley]

That was kinda my point. Acting like Maiia threw away the win is wrong, objectively and mathematically. If anything Kamila completely exceeded expectations. Daria skated to potential. EVERYONE ELSE did NOT - Anna, Sasha, Liza, AND Maiia all did not skate to potential.

And Boykova and Kozlozsky also had that mistake in their short program on the throw.

 

[Finley]

And maybe this needs to be said - one girl is not a perfect 'angel' and the other is not a 'devil'. No one is perfect. Alina's made plenty of mistakes. And she gets called out on them. Remember when she was driving without a license with her dad in the car and posted it in her IG stories? Not only did that 'discussion' go on to the point of mental exhaustion on every fs related social media forum (in three languages), a police report was filed.

Alina's 18. She makes mistakes. She's going to make more of them. I just happen to believe this moment at the press conference was not a mistake on her part. This is my opinion. I could be wrong. It may prove to be a problem for her. I guess it remains to be seen how it all plays out in the end. I think she'll be fine no matter what.

 

[brakes]

Nanny Lena and Katalina.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

What?

How can they rig this event when there's so much talent? Both teams were loaded with skilled skaters. Also didn't Zhenyas team win 3 of the 4 disciplines?

I thought the teams were evenly balanced for the most part. I also thought it was a nice of that great comaraderie. Something nice for the Russian federation to do replacing Europeans. I think if this happens again it should be like Russia against the rest of Europe that would be more interesting.

seeding Anna and Sasha rather than Anna and Kamila after nationals played out the way it did was shady, and then Alina getting first pick for both singles disciplines which tend to have the most potential for large gaps in scoring. There were two less pairs so Evgenia’s chance to gain a similar an advantage in that discipline was mitigated.

It has all been pointed out in this thread and yes I do believe it was intentional. RusFed is all about the Eteri show and Alina is the face of Team Eteri. Anna and Kamila are their best two skaters.

I was surprised that Evgenia was surprised to be honest. I thought she had to be aware of all of this and was planning on just rolling with it for her check. It’s pretty obvious, only their hardcore fans don’t see what’s going on (or pretend not to).

 

[snwnprv]

Alina always reposts polls, where her fans vote for her, she’s done so numerous times before

I'm subscribed to her instagram. I wouldn't say she always do it or done so numerous times before. Especially if we are talking specifically about all sorts of unofficial fan voting, not official awards.

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

Quick unrelated question (wow it's been a while since I posted in a ladies forum....): how was Maria Dmitrieva allowed to compete at the 2019 junior nationals with all the age rules? She was born in 2007....

 

[dante]

Ash Nazg Gimbatul!

 

[ruga]

Quick unrelated question (wow it's been a while since I posted in a ladies forum....): how was Maria Dmitrieva allowed to compete at the 2019 junior nationals with all the age rules? She was born in 2007....

Just like the age limit for Russian senior comps is 14, it's younger for juniors too -12 years I think.

 

[chasingneverland]

seeding Anna and Sasha rather than Anna and Kamila after nationals played out the way it did was shady, and then Alina getting first pick for both singles disciplines which tend to have the most potential for large gaps in scoring. There were two less pairs so Evgenia’s chance to gain a similar an advantage in that discipline was mitigated.

It has all been pointed out in this thread and yes I do believe it was intentional. RusFed is all about the Eteri show and Alina is the face of Team Eteri. Anna and Kamila are their best two skaters.

I was surprised that Evgenia was surprised to be honest. I thought she had to be aware of all of this and was planning on just rolling with it for her check. It’s pretty obvious, only their hardcore fans don’t see what’s going on (or pretend not to).

I don't think it's that much of a surprise Sasha was seeded. Partially politics but also she does have a higher scoring potential than Kamila.

Also keep in mind that Kamila has NEVER done what she did there. She landed a 3A in both the SP and the FS and has never even attempted the 3A in the FS. Also it's only the second time she's landed both 4Ts cleanly. Look at Eteri's and Danii's reactions after her FS to know that that was never a sure thing.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

Just like the age limit for Russian senior comps is 14, it's younger for juniors too -12 years I think.

i think the question is because Maria was 11 years old at the time.

 

[EyesOfLove]

Oh my, this thread is wild.
So Medvedeva felt she was set up to lose and verbalized it. She said they’re all winners and Alina stressed that HER team won.
Does that sum up all the drama?
I doubt these 2 are seriously fighting over it almost a week later. Wasn’t Zhenya winking after making comments? They’re both extremely competitive and wanted their team to win, but come on.....do you honestly think this silly press conference was that important to either of them?
I feel sorry for both these girls. Alina won the Olympics by a very slim margin and maybe she feels insecure because it was so close despite her backloading and many people suggesting it was so close that they should both have gold. Maybe Medvedeva doesn’t like losing to Alina, but let’s not forget that she lost to her at Worlds also. So all of our opinions are speculation. I just don’t know that the girls deserve all the drama and negativity.
I feel sorry for Kamila and Anna if Kamila gets gold at the Olympics. I see this situation all over again. There is no villain.

On what basis can this be deduced?

 

[brakes]

Did you guys know that after Anna's tough free skate Evgenia's team chanted "Krasnaya Machina, prokolataya shina!" (Red Car, punctured tire!)?

 

[Finley]

Did you guys know that after Anna's tough free skate Evgenia's team chanted "Krasnaya Machina, prokolataya shina!" (Red Car, punctured tire!)?

Both teams were doing chants back and forth. Lisa K. explained it in an interview today.

There was a moment in the broadcast where they shouted "red car - punctured tire". Did you hear that? Was it a different team?
- Yes, it was the blue team. Our team included Dima Aliev, who is very good at coming up with rhymes on the go. The guys shouted "red car - punctured tire", we shouted "Space-space, wait, we will soon be ahead."

That's why we split into two teams to compete. People on Twitter exploded with indignation: "How dare they shout like that ?!" But this is a matinee, we are defending our team. This is normal, no one was offended. On the contrary, we thought, “Is this a challenge? Dima, come up with it. "

 

[dante]

Personally, I’m tired of putting athletes on a pedestal. I did it with Evgenia once, wasn’t a good idea. It only ends in disappointment because these people are just human with lots of flaws. So, yeah, it happens. Maybe it shouldn‘t have but it did. And of course fans and the media will run with it.

This is something that needs to be said.

Surely, professional athletes can give any of us an example of diligence, patience and persistence, and there are other qualities in which they surpass any of us mere mortals. But these qualities often come at the cost of general education or experience outside the rules of a sports competition.

One thing is to care for a person and wish him all the best, another thing is taking him as a role model or trusting him with important things unrelated to his specialty. People vote for actors and athletes as if there are no jurists or economists who know the subject better. And soon tiktokers and fashion bloggers will join the pool of politicians too (tell me if I'm wrong and they're already there).

That said, many athletes deserve as much respect as love. Speaking of the ladies, I've never been a fan of Liza Tuktamysheva's programs or performance, but her ability to stay above this permanent media s***storm for years and joke about her role in it is something unique in the field. Anya Shcherbakova not only is a lovely child with grace and quads, but also has a perfect upbringing, a noble one, without a slightest trace of arrogance. Now, Alina has never been my favorite as a skater or a personality, but if her recent hassle with Zhenya wasn't a loss of nerve, but a deliberate defense of her team and the truth, then I'm going to like her more than ever before; time will tell.

Even then, they are human beings and they make mistakes, which should neither be uncritically justified nor become an excuse for bullying, unless they do something like saving the Earth or committing genocide.

 

[brakes]

This is what the rest of the world has to deal with.

- Girls, is it hard to train figure skating?
- No.
- No.
- No.
- Does it hurt to fall?
- No.
- No.
- No.
- Not even a little bit?
- Only if you fall on your head.